Thailand and Hoteliers want the Chinese over Western Tourist

[ScotBkk]

10 hours ago, z42 said:

Sounds like imbelishment over flat out BS to me. Obviously certain hoteliers are going to favour a system where their hotels are fully occupied by people who are paying more than regular costs.

 

To say this counts for a general trend though is probably wide of the mark. The tourist numbers are fudged anyways (look at the numbers of laotians supposedly visiting for tourism),and outside of package tour excursion hotspots their footprint is fairly light elsewhere i'd suspect

If you believe any the tripe written by the OP you need your head examined. The first embellishment sounded about right then  seemed to rove over to another time frame full of BS..................

[Brunolem]

Considering that China GDP per capita is actùally lower than that of Thailand, one may wonder how the average Chinese is able to spend more than Westerners who are five to ten times wealthier???

Either the Chinese are especially spendthrift (seriously?) or the Westerners are especially thrifty...

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Brunolem

[HerbalEd]

In my not-so-humble opinion, the worst thing to happen to international tourism is the nouveau riche Chinese newbie travelers. Crude & rude.

[DipStick]

1 hour ago, GreasyFingers said:

Aside from the economics is there anyone on TVF that can explain the Chinese toiletry habits. After our recent trip the wife will not go into a toilet cubicle if a Chinese woman comes out of it as they have pi*sed all over the toilet and the floor. How would they do that? Even the Thais can squat on a western toilet.

May I ask, why is there a need to “squat” on a toilet seat, surely the seat is there to sit on. You are Also suggesting the Thais are no better than the Chinese. It all comes down to standards and education.

[alex8912]

10 hours ago, Chang_paarp said:

Wait til the Chinese become more sophisticated travellers.When they become independent travellers rather than tour group lemmings. When they can compare the offerings of the hotels against other hotels rather than the places they live in.  That is when TAT and co will start to hear complaints about service and quality. 

 

Be careful what you wish for...

Do you really think TAT or most 2 and 3 star hotels will think EXTRA far into the future like 24-36 months from now (lol) when what you wrote comes true?? They seem to think about 7-30 days forward only.  Many places were kind of lucky that when the Russians started going elsewhere in Thailand about 1-2 years ago the Chinese were there to pick up the slack. But when the Chinese start ditching Thailand who is left?  

Edited April 5, 2018 by alex8912

[watcharacters]

4 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Considering that China GDP per capita is actùally lower than that of Thailand, one may wonder how the average Chinese is able to spend more than Westerners who are five to ten times wealthier???

Either the Chinese are especially spendthrift (seriously?) or the Westerners are especially thrifty...

 

 

 

"or the Westerners are especially thrifty..."

 

 

Believe me I know a disproportionate number of both truly poor Westerners as well as skinflint ones.   I'd be happy to enter a contest as to the cheapers person one knows.

 

[watcharacters]

4 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Do you really think TAT or most 2 and 3 star hotels will think EXTRA far into the future like 24-36 months from now (lol) when what you wrote comes true?? They seem to think about 7-30 days forward only.  Many places were kind of lucky that when the Russians started going elsewhere in Thailand about 1-2 years ago the Chinese were there to pick up the slack. But when the Chinese start ditching Thailand who is left?  

 

 

 

Bermese?  

[JSixpack]

11 hours ago, z42 said:

Sounds like imbelishment over flat out BS to me. Obviously certain hoteliers are going to favour a system where their hotels are fully occupied by people who are paying more than regular costs.

 

It's about far more than hoteliers. And hoteliers also welcome guests who are paying standard rates.

 

Quote

To say this counts for a general trend though is probably wide of the mark.

 

No. It is the general trend in tourist areas. And to say this tourist trend isn't the trend in non-tourist areas is meaningless.

 

Quote

The tourist numbers are fudged anyways

 

But they seem pretty accurate w/ regard to the Chinese as you may discover from a visit to common tourist areas. The Mastercard Index agrees as well. Most forum members aren't aware of all the new businesses and areas developed newly for Chinese tourism as they don't go there themselves.

 

11 hours ago, ChrisY1 said:

What claptrap!

 

No, pretty much spot on.

 

Quote

Some 2 or 3 star hotels may like to have the rooms full.....no matter that the Chinese tourists fill them, as it's all about occupancy and cheap rates.

 

Actually, all the hotels like to have their rooms full. Chinese are helping with that as well.

 

11 hours ago, BEVUP said:

on a side note I've read that you can get better quality cheaper in neighbouring countries 

 

Net revenue from tourism continues to grow in Thailand, however. Moreover, Thai companies are taking advantage of growth in neighboring countries by investing there as well. It's win-win.

 

11 hours ago, Chang_paarp said:

Wait til the Chinese become more sophisticated travellers.When they become independent travellers rather than tour group lemmings.

 

They already are. The FIT number is rapidly growing (you can look up the numbers) and are certainly being seen around a lot in Pattaya.

 

“In the beginning we had a lot of [Chinese] group tours coming to Tiffany’s, but now the market has changed,” Phanthusak says. “Now we get more Chinese FIT customers than tours.”

     --http://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/travel-leisure/article/2132657/chinese-tourists-flocking-pattaya-transgender-shows-thai

 

10 hours ago, ezzra said:

Let not the hotelies of Thailand forget that the Chinese only starting to arrive not too long ago, and that they owe what they have today on the back and money of the western tourists that have been flocking to Thailand for the last 30 years, talking about biting the hands that feed you....

 

Actually Chinese aren't patronizing the old beer bars, fleabag short-time hotels, and the lower-end sex industry, so they don't owe anyone for the use of them. When the mongers of old were in charge, how many shopping malls were built and sustained? As for the TVF Golden Eggs Theory Of Thai Economics, the Standard Model, history, and principles such as Fixed Pie, distilled from years of ace economic analyses, are mentioned here.

 

10 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

The issue that I see and hear about from friends in the tourism business is where the money from the Chinese people is going. To oversimplify a bit, it seems that certain hotels, certain tourist sites, and certain shops are doing very well.

 

And this is always the case in every sector over time in a quasi-free market. No investment means a guaranteed profit eternally. I think we're running up against the TVF Mausoleum Principle, the time dimension of No Change. I think you'll find that a lot more businesses, and Thais, have benefited from the influx on Chinese tourists than have been hurt.

 

9 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

economic theory says close and do something else, but...what?

 

whatever might best take advantage of the changing market conditions, obviously. Compare the employment rate here with that in the nanny states.

 

8 hours ago, whiteman said:

I think most Chinese tourist stay at Chinese owned hotels and Restaurants

 

No, this one of the common myths here. Plus you've failed to account for the Thais employed by the hotels and restos Chinese tourists patronize.

 

Quote

I used to eat regularly at the Hilton for lunch not any more they are like locus. 

 

But the Hilton ain't owned by Chinese.

 

4 hours ago, korkenzieher said:

but the bars and restaurants, where the real bucks are spent don't.

 

See Hilton just above. But bars aren't where the "real money" is spent, and certainly not beer bars. Now if you check out the upper end of the go-go bars in Nana, you'll find out who's crowding in there, spending money, and have bid up bar fines sky high. 

 

You can read a summary of what's going on w/ Chinese revenue generation (not the same as spending) and reference to a quarterly report by CPN about who's driving up profits for Central and the Hilton here:

 

 

3 hours ago, jobwolf said:

Even they noticed by now that Western Tourists are not willing to come any more. 

 

What they noticed was that Western tourists have run out of money and they had enough of the riff raff living here on perpetual tourist visas. You paid any attention to exchange rates, among other factors?

 

3 hours ago, SomchaiDIY said:

Chinese tourist are moved like the cattle farm for feeding bucket and sleeping. Chinese tourist movements are under control of big business owner who plan visits to many shows and shopping area with secret commissions paid for services. Business not fair for all people. 

 

One of our most cherished myths. See above on the rise of FITs. Nobody said a business has to benefit everybody, absurd idea. We have a lot of Occupy Wall Streeters on the forum. 

 

Quote

Many very rich chinese prefer the vacation to europe and western areas not so many regular for thailand.

 

But that's always been true of the very rich everybody. They aren't the primary movers of tourism markets in Third World countries and it wouldn't be worth the investment to pursue them. I might point out that a lot of Chinese property buyers in Thailand first come here as tourists.

 

2 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Ok here is our answer can someone upload the video clip again of the Chinese at the Thai shrimp buffet!

 

Not relevant to the typical experience our members will have but just used for bashing purposes. Who would choose to attend a buffet mobbed by tourists disgorged from a tour bus--of any nationality. I wouldn't. Most whinge about some Chinese at a 7/11. Me, I went to Sizzler at Central for dinner a month or so ago, during high season, and there were quite a few Chinese in there who were perfectly well-behaved.

 

2 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

Aside from the economics is there anyone on TVF that can explain the Chinese toiletry habits. After our recent trip the wife will not go into a toilet cubicle if a Chinese woman comes out of it as they have pi*sed all over the toilet and the floor. How would they do that? Even the Thais can squat on a western toilet.

 

You might ask your wife to explain and demonstrate how that could be done. Could happen anywhere but often found in highway service station restrooms in the USA.

 

35 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

 Many places were kind of lucky that when the Russians started going elsewhere in Thailand about 1-2 years ago the Chinese were there to pick up the slack. But when the Chinese start ditching Thailand who is left?  

 

The Chinese, when they come back like the Russians? Not all businesses or even most businesses depend on only one group anyway. But good example of the Complex and the Just In Case fallacies, so doesn't deserve serious response.

Edited April 5, 2018 by JSixpack

[laislica]

14 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Considering that China GDP per capita is actùally lower than that of Thailand, one may wonder how the average Chinese is able to spend more than Westerners who are five to ten times wealthier???

Either the Chinese are especially spendthrift (seriously?) or the Westerners are especially thrifty...

 

Averages are made up of the "Haves" and the "Have Not's".

Maybe it's only the Have's who can afford to travel, and then with a limited budget compared to Westerners?

 

Perhaps, therefore, the total number of Chinese visitors to Thailand may have a limit much lower than at first glance?

Time will tell.

As has been mentioned, the Westerners have been a tourism support for 30 or more years.

The influx of the Chinese is only recent.

 

Someone mentioned the Russians.

There are some new and incredibly rich Russians but I don't think that they are the ones who are generally seen.

Perhaps like in the 50/70's when we Brits found cheap package holidays in Spain?

It was a special treat that we blue collar workers could just about afford!

We also went slightly mad in the sunshine and all the goodies that were available in Spain and not at home (like cheap wine!)

In Thailand, we all know what is abundant here but might not be so in one's home country.....

 

By the way, just because they look Chinese, dosen't mean that they are necessarily from China.

I met a huge group of Taiwanese in Samut Songkran the other month and they were very nice and well behaved folk.

I spoke to a few of them and their English was better than most Thais that I would meet in that location.....

(My Mandarin is very poor but they made the effort to try to understand me!)

[jenny2017]

8 hours ago, Anak Nakal said:

My friends do not like Chinese tourist because they rude!

My friend want government to look for more western people.

 

  Who are your friends? 

[seajae]

and I am sure when they start finding piles of excrement in the corners and around the hotels they will still be very welcoming, wont take them long to start treating Thailand like they treat their home country

[Thaidream]

I believe in the eye test- what I see and I have never, ever seen a Chinese tourist in a go go bar; a pub of any kind or mongering in any way shape or form. About 2 weeks ago- went to Soi Cowboy- street packed with Asian tourist taking pictures- went into a few bars- mostly empty.

 

During the past few months have stayed in 3,4, and 5 star hotels all over the city and in Hua Hin.  In Bangkok- most of the tourists I saw were actually Indian and Bangladeshi. Some tour groups from Vietnam and some from China.  There were Japnese mixed amongst all the groups mostly individuals playing golf.

 

In the Hua Hin area- saw more Western tourist and many Thais  visiting the beach coming in groups from up country.

 

Thailand economically is definitely much better now than 10 or 20 years ago. Many Thais travel and have money to do so. Decades ago that was impossible.  The wealthy Thais do stay at the 5 Star Hotels.  Also, Wealthy Westerners from America and Europe also stay at the 5 Star Hotels mostly on the river.  Every Chinese tourist I saw was travelling in a group with a tour  leader- bus- and a set itinerary.

 

As an expat- I try  and avoid hotels that cater mostly to tourists but it is becoming impossible during the high season. One must go to places that tourists hardly ever travel to -  because they are off the beaten path.  Eventually, the Chinese and Indians will move on to other countries as their first choice.  Whose next to visit Thailand- Africa beckons.

 

[Brunolem]

41 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

"or the Westerners are especially thrifty..."

 

 

Believe me I know a disproportionate number of both truly poor Westerners as well as skinflint ones.   I'd be happy to enter a contest as to the cheapers person one knows.

 

True!

Thailand seems to be a magnet for Western cheap charlies, a number of them having actually a lot of money.

Yet, just watch the Chinese...I mean the bulk of them, the herds following their guide with the little flag.

Do you see them opening their wallets in shopping centers?

Do you see them entering any place when they travel back and forth in Walking Street, Pattaya, for example?

[GreasyFingers]

1 hour ago, DipStick said:

May I ask, why is there a need to “squat” on a toilet seat, surely the seat is there to sit on. You are Also suggesting the Thais are no better than the Chinese. It all comes down to standards and education.

Have you not seen the signs "Please do not stand on the seat" with the accompanying graphics.

[GreasyFingers]

1 hour ago, JSixpack said:

You might ask your wife to explain and demonstrate how that could be done. Could happen anywhere but often found in highway service station restrooms in the USA.

We have not been to service stations in USA so that is irrelevant unless you frequent ladies rest rooms. We are talking about toilets in airports in Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore on our trip. She could not demonstrate as  she does not know how it could be done but the Chinese can accomplish it. They must have some filthy habits at home.

Edited April 5, 2018 by GreasyFingers
adition

[DipStick]

11 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

Have you not seen the signs "Please do not stand on the seat" with the accompanying graphics.

 

12 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

Have you not seen the signs "Please do not stand on the seat" with the accompanying graphics.

 

12 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

Have you not seen the signs "Please do not stand on the seat" with the accompanying graphics.

Of course I have, but after basing myself in Hong Kong and China for over 40 years I have seen how dramatically the region has changed, in modern China its almost impossible to find a squat toilet, all modern buildings have western toilets, but go to Makro in Chang Wattana and you will only find squat toilets. Kind of ironic really 

[GreasyFingers]

4 minutes ago, DipStick said:

 

 

Of course I have, but after basing myself in Hong Kong and China for over 40 years I have seen how dramatically the region has changed, in modern China its almost impossible to find a squat toilet, all modern buildings have western toilets, but go to Makro in Chang Wattana and you will only find squat toilets. Kind of ironic really 

Then you know their toiletry habits. Please explain how or why they can pi*ss all over the floor as tourists.

[laislica]

3 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

Aside from the economics is there anyone on TVF that can explain the Chinese toiletry habits. After our recent trip the wife will not go into a toilet cubicle if a Chinese woman comes out of it as they have pi*sed all over the toilet and the floor. How would they do that? Even the Thais can squat on a western toilet.

 

There are very good reasons why a western toilet should not be Squatted on. The main on is their design.

They are designed to be sat on and the body weight is evenly distributed around the ri,.

If squatting the whole body weight is placed, first on one foot then the other before becoming balanced.

The same happens when getting off the squat.

The porcelain is not necessarily strong enough to withstand this treatment.

Here are some example of many:-

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3043331/Chinese-passenger-hospitalised-airport-toilet-COLLAPSED-squatted-not-clean.html

 

 

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

Yet, just watch the Chinese...I mean the bulk of them, the herds following their guide with the little flag.

 

But the FITs are beginning to outnumber those. You're a bit behind the times.

 

Quote

Do you see them opening their wallets in shopping centers?

 

You gonna follow around each one to check? See what CPN says about profits up at Central and the Hilton:

 

 

The fact is that our near-sighted TVF Posters never see anyone opening their wallets in any of the malls. But the standard measure for our econometricians is not wallets but the more obvious shopping bag count. Malls just provide free aircon and launder money. And provide brand name recognition--for brands only available in malls where no one's buying. 

 

Quote

Do you see them entering any place when they travel back and forth in Walking Street, Pattaya, for example?

 

Yes, they enter the seafood restos and those are doing great business. You also see some Chinese in the go-gos but they're probably FITs.

Edited April 5, 2018 by JSixpack

[Rimmer]

A bickering/baiting /flame has been removed

[JSixpack]

48 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

We have not been to service stations in USA so that is irrelevant unless you frequent ladies rest rooms.

 

But though it's your wife who frequents ladies rooms (I assume), you're the one all curious about how it's done. And you've falsely assumed that it requires squatting and that Chinese MUST squat--a mere stereotype. So the relevance is that, according to female friends I've known, it is usually accomplished, and easily, by not squatting but merely standing. As to "why," it's regarded as more sanitary for themselves, esp if someone else has already done it.

 

I hope this may help resolve the issue for you and you may rest easier.

[GreasyFingers]

1 minute ago, JSixpack said:

 

But though it's your wife who frequents ladies rooms (I assume), you're the one all curious about how it's done. And you've falsely assumed that it requires squatting and that Chinese MUST squat--a mere stereotype. So the relevance is that, according to female friends I've known, it is usually accomplished, and easily, by not squatting but merely standing. As to "why," it's regarded as more sanitary for themselves, esp if someone else has already done it.

 

I hope this may help resolve the issue for you and you may rest easier.

Yes that would be an explanation but why would they not care about pi*ssing all over the floor. Someone has to clean it up.

[impulse]

Anyone who believes the Chinese are Cheap Charlies should wander by the check in kiosks at Swampy for flights to China.  I fly to a 2nd tier city in China 5-6 times a year, and I am gobsmacked at the amount of stuff they have bought and now have to get on the plane.  They come to Thailand with shopping lists of luxury and mundane crap their friends want them to bring back, and also spend a lot on gifts, if only  to show their friends and relatives that they're world travelers.

 

Try to skin them like you skin the western tourists, and you'll come up empty.  Learn to cater to them and their buying and banquet habits and they're pretty appealing customers.

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by impulse

[DipStick]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

Anyone who believes the Chinese are Cheap Charlies should wander by the check in kiosks at Swampy for flights to China.  I fly to a 2nd tier city in China 5-6 times a year, and I am gobsmacked at the amount of stuff they have bought and now have to get on the plane.  They come to Thailand with shopping lists of crap their friends want them to bring back, and also spend a lot on gifts, if only  to show their friends and relatives that they're world travelers.

 

Try to skin them like you skin the western tourists, and you'll come up empty.  Learn to cater to them and their buying and banquet habits and they're pretty appealing customers.

 

At last a sensible non racialist post. 

[owl sees all]

5 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

Aside from the economics is there anyone on TVF that can explain the Chinese toiletry habits. After our recent trip the wife will not go into a toilet cubicle if a Chinese woman comes out of it as they have pi*sed all over the toilet and the floor. How would they do that? Even the Thais can squat on a western toilet.

Yes GreasyFingers someone can.

 

Professor Pigeon reckons that some (not all) Chinese ladies pee standing up.

 

Obviously their aim while standing is not as accurate as a man; hence the piss all over the place.

[JSixpack]

2 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Yes GreasyFingers someone can.

 

Professor Pigeon reckons that some (not all) Chinese ladies pee standing up.

 

Obviously their aim while standing is not as accurate as a man; hence the piss all over the place.

 

I just said that. Try to keep up.

 

 

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, JSixpack said:

I just said that. Try to keep up.

Said what JS?

[metisdead]

A troll post about "Mercun women" has been removed. 

[Brunolem]

45 minutes ago, impulse said:

I fly to a 2nd tier city in China 5-6 times a year, and I am gobsmacked at the amount of stuff they have bought and now have to get on the plane.  They come to Thailand with shopping lists of luxury and mundane crap their friends want them to bring back, and also spend a lot on gifts, if only  to show their friends and relatives that they're world travelers.

 

I believe you, but how do they manage to do that?

Obviously, the average Chinese is not making 5,000 dollars a month, otherwise international companies would not flock to China because of the low local salaries.

And, as I wrote above, Chinese per capita GDP remains below that of Thailand...yet we don't see groups of middle class Thais flying abroad and coming back with suitcases full of Vuitton and Dior garments!

On top of that, it is well known that Chinese "invest" a very large part of their modest savings in real estate.

Beats me...

Edited April 5, 2018 by Brunolem

[impulse]

4 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

I believe you, but how do they manage to do that?

Obviously, the average Chinese is not making 5,000 dollars a month, otherwise international companies would not flock to China because of the low local salaries.

And, as I wrote above, Chinese per capita GDP remains below that of Thailand...yet we don't see group of middle class Thais flying abroad and coming back with suitcases full of Vuitton and Dior garments!

On top of that, it is well known that Chinese "invest" a very large part of their modest savings in real estate.

Beats me...

 

When you have 1.5 billion people, the top 5% is still a larger group than the entire population of Thailand.

 

Edit: Which makes me scratch my head whenever I read expats bemoaning that foreigners can't buy land in Thailand.  As if they'd just be bidding against the locals if that Pandora's box were to open.

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by impulse