Road safety generally and under-aged kids on bikes is at this stage of statehood maturity, an almost insoluble problem in Thailand.

Most Thai authorities are underpaid at lower levels and overstaffed with higher level by staffers who bought their jobs or got them through nepotism.

This leaves us frequently with lazy untrained staff, relying upon bribery to live and with no inclination to do their jobs properly or even honestly work the hours paid for.

The Joe Public are culturally cowed by Sakdina and corruption to be unable to demand anyone in any authority to do their job "without fear or favour."

Unfortunately the last factor is the fatalist component of the religion which makes it too easy for everyone to abdicate their responsibility to everything from wise parenting up to wearing a helmet or seatbelt or even to demanding fair treatment in difficult circumstances.  

I mean, if the event was pre-ordained to happen then how could you stop it?  If the person is wearing uniform or of a "higher station in life" than the plaintif then how can he argue with them?  This woman we read about a few months ago who drove into town in a drivered (I hesitate to say chauffeured) Mercedes and proclaimed herself a princess would have faced little opposition in many smaller parts of the kingdom.  

 

But we mostly  love the place and love many of the people.  It is our responsibilty to have insurance, drive defensively and keep our heads down to avoid bumping into too many annoying cultural mores.  And do what we can in our own sphere of influence to help encourage self-responsibility.  That's about it.  And be very sad when we see stupid preventable things (preventable in our experience and upbringing) happening nearly every day.

1 hour ago, Fruit Trader said:

I'm with you on this one bubba.

I try and fit in when driving here. Passing on blind bends and a few late pass chicken runs makes one feel part of the culture. Chomping on a bag of fried bugs while driving helps enhance the integration.

 

But for the ultimate Thai driving experience you got to glue some cardboard tubes to the front of your sun glasses and just hit the gas like there's no tomorrow.

No need ive got Black Cheapo Tint, cant see FA, but it looks cool.

The kids can't be any worse than the adults at riding, can they?

In Ozz,USA,England, Europe etc, it seems that despite Licences, Police, petty speed laws, heavy fines n Cameras that all the Dash Cams on You Tube show just the same clowns as we have here. Brace yourself for some nutty reasons why the Dash Cams lie..

On 4/22/2018 at 4:54 PM, RichardColeman said:

So, take the bike then !

and jail the parents.

22 hours ago, KittenKong said:

It probably doesn't belong to them anyway.

It belongs to someone and that someone should be punished.

7 hours ago, possum1931 said:

and jail the parents.

More likely to be the 60 year old grandma, would sure be a great improvement kids riding pilliion on the back of grandma to school!!

19 hours ago, HAKAPALITA said:

In Ozz,USA,England, Europe etc, it seems that despite Licences, Police, petty speed laws, heavy fines n Cameras that all the Dash Cams on You Tube show just the same clowns as we have here. Brace yourself for some nutty reasons why the Dash Cams lie..

We sure got nutters on the road in the Netherlands and dash cams to prove it, its the frequency that it happens that is different. 

19 hours ago, HAKAPALITA said:

In Ozz,USA,England, Europe etc, it seems that despite Licences, Police, petty speed laws, heavy fines n Cameras that all the Dash Cams on You Tube show just the same clowns as we have here. Brace yourself for some nutty reasons why the Dash Cams lie..

US, Aus, Western Europe, and Canada road deaths are between 5.4 - 10 per 100,000 population. Thailand is 36.6 per 100,000. Seems to me the rules work.

21 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Oh... you left the door wide open there...  

And I'm the Puppy, but I've already had my one day suspension this week for calling someone a name so I'll be quiet.

21 hours ago, wgdanson said:

But would that cover an under-age kid driving the 'family'motorbike

This insurance will pay to the other party ALL damages that are due to the fault of a family member or a property item from the insured family.
No discussion.
But the insurance company will always do an inquiry and if the incident is found to be a gross negligence that would not have happen if due care had be taken, the family will be sued for act of negligenge.

Eg.:
- An under-aged kid of the family takes a motorbike and causes an accident.
  The motorbike was secured (keys; immobilyzed; secured) and the kid never rode/steal the motorbike before.
  The family can not be sued for negligence and the insurance will indemnisize the other party.
- An under-aged kid of the family takes a motorbike and causes an accident.
  The motorbike was not secured properly, the keys were left at the disposition of the kid, the kid had been riding the motorbike before, etc.
  The family will sued for negligence and will be ordered to refund the insurance company in full or partially.

15 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

US, Aus, Western Europe, and Canada road deaths are between 5.4 - 10 per 100,000 population. Thailand is 36.6 per 100,000. Seems to me the rules work.

Heres the first one, avoiding the dash cam question, those are rather larger land masses than Thailand.Bloody hard to hit anything in the Northern Territory in Ozz, and my country we spends half the year pushing vehicles out of snowdrifts. Wonder how Bangkok compares to say Milan for accidents.I prefer BKK to Milan for easy go.

32 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

US, Aus, Western Europe, and Canada road deaths are between 5.4 - 10 per 100,000 population. Thailand is 36.6 per 100,000. Seems to me the rules work.

Don't forget that the number of road deaths in Thailand are only the people who actually die on the road. If somebody dies later in a hospital he will not be counted towards road deaths.

I assume in other countries the people who die in a Hospital after being involved in an accident on the road count towards road deaths.

So the number of road deaths in Thailand is actually higher than that.

12 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

This insurance will pay to the other party ALL damages that are due to the fault of a family member or a property item from the insured family.
No discussion.
But the insurance company will always do an inquiry and if the incident is found to be a gross negligence that would not have happen if due care had be taken, the family will be sued for act of negligenge.

Eg.:
- An under-aged kid of the family takes a motorbike and causes an accident.
  The motorbike was secured (keys; immobilyzed; secured) and the kid never rode/steal the motorbike before.
  The family can not be sued for negligence and the insurance will indemnisize the other party.
- An under-aged kid of the family takes a motorbike and causes an accident.
  The motorbike was not secured properly, the keys were left at the disposition of the kid, the kid had been riding the motorbike before, etc.
  The family will sued for negligence and will be ordered to refund the insurance company in full or partially.

They only pay out to 3 Party, unlicensed rider  get nothing. Not even the perps Bike damage covered. QED... Not saying the above story is wrong as poster was told, but ive heard all that before. The injured 3 party can sue, but in reality nowt from nowt leaves nowt.

Just now, HAKAPALITA said:

They only pay out to 3 Party, unlicensed rider  get nothing. Not even the perps Bike damage covered. QED... Not saying the above story is wrong as poster was told, but ive heard all that before. The injured 3 party can sue, but in reality nowt from nowt leaves nowt.

He is not talking about Thailand, but about some insurance in his home country, confused me also.

15 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Heres the first one, avoiding the dash cam question, those are rather larger land masses than Thailand.Bloody hard to hit anything in the Northern Territory in Ozz, and my country we spends half the year pushing vehicles out of snowdrifts. Wonder how Bangkok compares to say Milan for accidents.I prefer BKK to Milan for easy go.

I haven't denied that dash cams show idiot drivers worldwide, they do.

But to suggest the wide open areas in Aus or the winter months as being the reason death rates in the developed world are lower is ludicrous.

Why are you insistent upon defending the poor law enforcement of traffic laws and Thailand's huge road death rate?

Edited April 24, 20188 yr by duanebigsby

8 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Don't forget that the number of road deaths in Thailand are only the people who actually die on the road. If somebody dies later in a hospital he will not be counted towards road deaths.

I assume in other countries the people who die in a Hospital after being involved in an accident on the road count towards road deaths.

So the number of road deaths in Thailand is actually higher than that.

Wrong assumption.

4 minutes ago, jackdd said:

He is not talking about Thailand, but about some insurance in his home country, confused me also.

As said already, this is an Insurance which EVERYBODY must have in MY COUNTRY.
Not Thailand.

Here is a link to such an insurance and what they cover/not cover.
I hope that it is not against the Thaivisa rules.
PS.: Only in Dutch or French

https://www.aginsurance.be/Retail/nl/gezin/gezin/Paginas/familiale-verzekering.aspx

6 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Wrong assumption.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

Quote

a death after how many days since accident event is still counted as a road fatality?" (by international standard adjusted to a 30-day period)

I think i assumed right.

But the number that was posted was the "adjusted number"

Edited April 24, 20188 yr by jackdd

1 minute ago, duanebigsby said:

I haven't denied that dash cams show idiot drivers worldwide, they do.

But to suggest the wide open areas in Aus or the winter months as being the reason death rates in the developed world are lower is ludicrous.

Why are you insistent upon defending the poor law enforcement of traffic laws and Thailand's huge road deathrate?

Because i realise safety comes with instilled Education, sadly slowly here, not from Ferang Rhetoric Control Freaks, laws and bits of paper.

26 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Because i realise safety comes with instilled Education, sadly slowly here, not from Ferang Rhetoric Control Freaks, laws and bits of paper.

I disagree. Laws and Tickets for moving violations are a big part of that education and the lack of such enforcement in Thailand is a major factor in traffic safety here.

 

Yeah, yeah...I get it. You hate "Nanny States" and love the freedom to do as you wish in Thailand

even if it involves deadly roads.

 To my mind 15 is a reasonable age.

 

   Where I'm from, you're only allowed to drive a Mofa= motor bicycle, when you're 15 years old, with less than 50 cc, usually 49, and not faster than 25 km/h.

 

And still a long way from driving a big bike...........

 

   Letting kids drive 125 cc motorcycles without any tests/ theory is insane.

 

   Why don't they have such low speed vehicles for younger people?https://www.bmvi.de/SharedDocs/EN/Articles/LA/driving-licence-categories-overview.html

 

   

 

   

Edited April 24, 20188 yr by jenny2017

13 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

I disagree. Laws and Tickets for moving violations are a big part of that education and the lack of such enforcement in Thailand is a major factor in traffic safety here.

 

Yeah, yeah...I get it. You hate "Nanny States" and love the freedom to do as you wish in Thailand

even if it involves deadly roads.

Puppy loves papers, not education. Im Out, cant win.

9 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Puppy loves papers, not education. Im Out, cant win.

Calling me "Puppy" twice is incredibly rude and possibly against forum rules.

 

I love education and believe it's a major component of road safety just as is law enforcement.

On 4/22/2018 at 4:44 PM, 473geo said:

Rightly or wrongly perhaps the Thai parents are allowed a little scope on when they think their offspring are capable of riding a motorsi to school. I guess the parents can calculate the risk. No doubt some will insist their children use less personal transport if available.

My daughter (15) has traveled to school in our rural area on her own motorsi for over a year now. I consider it good practice with only one busy road to cross right alongside the school. She drives confidently and carefully.

Soon she changes school and goes into a busy town some 10 klms away. My wife will not allow daily travel and my daughter will board with a friend near to school. Not sure if she will take the motorsi and use it in the town, probably will, but at least I know she has driven for a while and will be much better equipped to handle the bike than a new learner starting out.

I do agree training and education would be beneficial and certainly the enforcement of the compulsory helmet law. Surely the place for this is right outside the school, catch them young make wearing a helmet habit.

" I do agree training and education would be beneficial and certainly the enforcement of the compulsory helmet law. Surely the place for this is right outside the school, catch them young make wearing a helmet habit. "

 

I have to agree with your comments above. They tried this out the front of our local school by not allowing them to enter the school grounds until they went home and got a helmet. Went very well after a couple of days so they stopped the exercise. Wouldn't take much to work out  what happened then.

Calling me "Puppy" twice is incredibly rude and possibly against forum rules.
 
I love education and believe it's a major component of road safety just as is law enforcement.

No rude intende, Pups is used at home for younger folks.☃️


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5 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

No rude intende, Pups is used at home for younger folks.☃️


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

I'm not that young. But thanks for taking the "edge" off our conversation/argument Cheers.