Questions About Qualifications

[DRJONES]

Really? Why?

I don't think I have any choice in the matter. I have to get a job in Thailand. Unfortunately, January is when i'm arriving.

[Ijustwannateach]

The full answer to why is in the first two pages of topics in the teacher's forum, DRJ. It's too much to recap in this thread. Time for you to start reading.

And I agree with PB about the timing- January is a short term break (so nobody's in the office, no one's doing interviews) in the middle of the year (so there aren't that many vacancies, except at schools with bad luck or bad planning).

"S"

[DRJONES]

But surely I can join a private school anytime?

I was feeling optimistic after reading the first e-mail but now it seems I'd be better off not going to Thailand. The problem is my girlfriend and I want to live there and have more or less settled on this plan. I don't really fancy being unemployed though, although I suppose I could hang on until April/May.

Now i'm going to read the first 2 pages of this thread to see what you're warning me about.

[DRJONES]

I see what you mean.

I'm a bit stuck now.

[PeaceBlondie]

Doc Jones, teaching English in Thailand is like falling into a snakepit without an antidote. And I think there are men here who will privately admit that one of the main reasons they're stuck here is for the ......sex. It's a great country, but they could teach elsewhere. They aren't allowed to do much else here. Teaching can be terrible; it usually is for the first several years. If you're retired or filthy rich, it's a different story. If you're earning 129,899 baht per month with an M.Ed. in calculus, teaching at the only best international school, fine (you'd make double that back home, of course). But if your Ph.D. is in Byzantine architecture, then that degree will get you 30,000 baht per month.

I tell all my children - the ones with masters' degrees in their fields, and the ones who didn't get a GED when they dropped out - don't come to teach in Thailand. Just come to visit me, and then go back home.

[carmzy1]

hi steven,

i am moving with my husband and little daughter to Koh Samui this summer and i am looking for the prospects of teaching there. i have a Masters degree in Money and Banking and Bachelor in Business Administration from American University. i have worked in the banking industry and personal assistant but i do not have teaching experience. i am lebanese and i have excellent command of english and arabic. i would be interested in teaching math and science for elementary classes. what are my chances and what pay should i expect

thanks

carmen

[PeaceBlondie]

carmen, welcome to the Teaching forum. If we don't get a response here from the folks on Koh Samui, you might ask that question later, over on our Koh Samui and Koh Phanghan forum.

Math and science teachers are always in short supply, but unless it's an incredibly large island full of students learning English (such as Phuket perhaps?), the demand might not be very high.

[Ijustwannateach]

Carmen,

Any location in Thailand that counts as a popular tourist destination is a poor choice of location for a foreign teacher- simple supply and demand; remember that there will be many unqualified backpackers competing at the low end of the market- which, since you are not technically a native speaker, is where you will be (though I agree your English is pretty good). I don't know the Samui job market very well, but if it's anything like the Phuket/Hua Hin/Chiang Mai job market for foreign teachers, you're most likely looking at 20-25K at best. If you could be in Bangkok that would raise your salary (and your expenses, of course) but you might also locate some teaching opportunities which took advantage of your Arabic (which, as a specialised skill, might provide you with more compensation).

Good luck and let us know how it works out.

"S"

[simon43]

I'd like to ask your advice re qualifications and 'charity' teaching. I've brought this subject up before, but would like to get comment from experienced teachers.

I'm sure that there are a number of 'farang' living in LoS for some while, (maybe married with family etc), who don't need a teaching position with salary. But rather, they have spare time and would like to teach in local schools without a salary.

Do you think that the various crackdowns on teaching qualifications etc has 'killed' these types of opportunities, or has made them simply impractable, since the individual must have a teaching licence, police check etc?

I fully support the need for police checks to minimise the risk of a 'dubious' adult being placed in a position of trust with children/young people. But I also suspect that many local and rural schools will simply turn a blind eye to these requirements when a 'farang' offers their services for free.

I also recognise that someone who offers to help at their local Thai school should not really be called a teacher, unless they have suitable experience/training in these areas. Perhaps 'teaching assistant' would be a better term.

As to the legal requirements, I'm of course aware of the need for WP etc etc. But since these seem hard to come by when a paid position is offered, I doubt very much if a 'charity' position will offer a WP.

Anyway, as to my specific qualifications, I have a 1st Class honours degree and Masters degree in Electronics and Communications Engineering from University College, London, (in 1985/86). I do not hold any TEFL qualification and will have problems finding a TEFL course in my location (Nong Khai). My intention is to take the online MA in Education that is offered by the Open University in the UK.

I'd very much appreciate your comments on my own qualifications, and your views re 'charity' teachers.

Simon

[PeaceBlondie]

Simon, here's a recent thread about doing charity work at schools:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...114953&st=0

Your qualifications might be adequate to teach electronics in a minor university back in the "First World".

[brianwl]

Hi,

I see position postings which list salaries. The thing I am not sure of is whether it is weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly? We have three here in the US.

Another question, I have an Associates Degree. Can I teach English at a private school?

[PeaceBlondie]

Almost all ads are in baht per month.

An associates degree does not count as 'degree' here - they want a BA, BS, BEd, etc.

In theory, anything's possible, but it's unlikely you'll be offered an endowed professorship or even a job in a high school. It will be difficult to be legal within 2 or 3 years of trying to work full-time. If you're still in the States, hardly anybody would seriously urge you to come and put yourself through the hassles here.

Sorry to be so negative. If you've otherwise got some good credentials, let us know. Look through the Questions About Qualifications topic, posted at the top page of the teaching forum here.

Good luck.

[Ijustwannateach]

Sounds like an excellent query for Questions About Qualifications- merged.

[brianwl]

The reason I am asking is because I saw an AD for Native English Speakers and Teachers. I called and they guy said my Associates degree would be fine. He said the position was for private schools in various parts of Thailand.

If I cannot teach, what would I be doing at these schools? He also said the pay would be 36,000, is this a good pay?

[PeaceBlondie]

Some agencies don't know that an AA is not a BA. The ministries have experts who know. Agents sometimes lie, to their teachers and the schools. 36K in Bangkok is all right for your situation, I suppose. Don't be surprised if you can't get a work permit and have to do visa runs. School starts soon. Good luck.

[chayatom]

I have a friend currently teaching at an International school in Pakistan for the past 10 years who is thinking of relocating to Bangkok. She has been receiving a local salary in Pakistan and isn't sure what level of salary she could expect - can anyone give some general guidance on salary and other benefits for this type of position with one of the big International schools in Bangkok?

[samran]

moved to the teaching forum

[PeaceBlondie]

A real true authentic (Ed.D or M.Ed or B.Ed, certified with extensive relevant teaching in their home country, checkable references, a criminal check, etc.) real teacher who plays their cards correctly can earn well over 100,000 baht, 13 months per year, in a top-notch international school in Thailand.

A barely qualified BA in English might earn 40K at a make-believe pretend crummy intern'al school.

Now I'll leave the comments to those who know more than I do. I'm often mistaken....

PS: before my fellow moderator beats me to it: you can start reading the "Questions about Qualifications" thread, pinned to the top of the Teaching Forum, for 989 suggestions.

[aussiestyle1983]

ATM, regardless of qualifications, working in BKK for less than 40K per month is not necessary. The more qualifications and experience you have, the higher your salary will be. For a teacher with a few years experience, any degree and a 120 hour TEFL cert, I wouldn't except less than 50K in BKK. I know a guy, I have worked with for 18 months at a language school, a few months ago he quit and got a job an a very good international school, which is supposed to be the best, the schools name starts with an R............... anyway, he only has a BEd, TEFL and about 5 years experience and he claims to earn a package of 200,000 PM in BKK, and seeing how he lives and throws money around, I believe him. However, it was very, very, very, very hard to get in and he only found out about the job by word or mouth from a friend who works there, so its not impossible, but very hard to earn this much.

[Ijustwannateach]

Um, the B.Ed helps a heckuva lot. Any other kind of Bachelor's wouldn't have much of a chance, and there aren't many of them in Thailand, even in Bangkok.

[youthnasia]

Um, the B.Ed helps a heckuva lot. Any other kind of Bachelor's wouldn't have much of a chance, and there aren't many of them in Thailand, even in Bangkok.

How about a Bachelor in Mathematics and Computing?

[MissAnge]

For more info on the international teaching scene here and around the world, the gossip centre is at a website like tes dot co dot uk stroke section stroke staffroom etc etc etc.

[gharknes]

A friend told me that most of the Enlish Teachers he knows do about 3-4hrs per day teaching English, is this true ?

[aussiestyle1983]

I only teach for 2 hours 20 mins a day on average and get a bit more than double the salary you mentioned in the topic. Anyone who actually has to teach for 4 hours a day should not work for less than 40-50K

[PeaceBlondie]

We usually quote the teaching contact hours per week. My first 25K gig in the provinces was only for 10 hours per week, but I had to be on campus from 7:45 to 4:00, and I had to invent the wheel. My second 25K gig was up to 19 hours per week, slightly longer campus hours (but by then I knew how to scamper off to the post office or the mechanic during lull times), and I also had to teach maths, in English.

The intensity of the work load depends on various factors. If you're all new to TEFL, don't have support locally, have to write real lesson plans, or you teach a variety of levels, ages, or subjects - one contact hour might require 2 or 3 hours of prep time. If you've done it all before, and spend over half of the contact hours teaching the present tense or conversation to beginners - you can prep for ten minutes each class.

The experienced Thai teachers of English (or maths, geography, whatever) who have done it all the same way for donkey's years, can walk in with no preparation, turn on their mental autopilot, and maybe teach nothing at all.

[PeaceBlondie]

Um, the B.Ed helps a heckuva lot. Any other kind of Bachelor's wouldn't have much of a chance, and there aren't many of them in Thailand, even in Bangkok.

How about a Bachelor in Mathematics and Computing?

As always, please check the Questions About Qualifications thread at the top of the Teaching Forum.

You could teach maths and you could teach computing. If you've never taught in an EFL setting before, a TEFL cert would help. Even 12 year old math wizards may not have ever heard of words like divide, multiplication, and exponents (in English). Also, if you're the only speaker of English in the maths department - how can the staff help you? For example, the Thai math teacher pronounces "linear" as renial.

[Ijustwannateach]

As a rule of thumb, I suggested a system for "fair" wages over a year ago, which I now update to reflect current realities:

For TEFL teaching only, if done by someone with at least a college degree and TEFL or equivalent, 30K a month if all the proper paperwork is provided in a timely way should be fair wages for not more than 20 contact hours a week, *assuming* that all lessons are repeats and no further preparation or evaluation is required.

For EP/MP subject teaching, again done by someone with a proper qualification, given all the paperwork- 40K a month for not more than 12 contact hours (because the job requires preparation and marking).

For every contact hour over the suggested number in either case, I suggest a 3K/month increase in the basic wage.

If the job is in Bangkok, economic realities (higher costs) should garner a bonus of at least 10k in either case.

In the case of TEFL, if the job requires more preparation or marking or paperwork than usual, add 1k per class (assuming a class of 30 students or more).

If the teacher has no college degree but is still eligible for the position (presumably TEFL), subtract 5K from the suggested figure.

If the teacher has additional degrees relevant to his subject beyond a bachelor's, add 5K per relevant degree.

From my own personal point of view, no amount of money makes it worth teaching in Thailand illegally, but if you must needs put a value on it, I'd say that if they don't help you acquire the proper paperwork (proper visa, teacher's license, work permit, and visa extension) then you should demand at least another 10K a month, and save this amount towards the eventual expenses related to incarceration.

I think this system can give people a rule of thumb about how much they *should* be worth at a given position, so that they know what to ask for or whether they should probably be looking for another job. You will need to factor in other pluses and minuses yourself (for example, insurance provided by the employer, or the number of sociopathic coworkers you are expected to endure). Additional years of experience, it is presumed, should also receive a raise which stays ahead of inflation. So the basic numbers in this post should be adjusted upwards by about 5% per year starting next year, in 2008.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Since a number of recent threads have focussed on qualifications and salaries, I'm doing a mass merge with Questions about Qualifications.

[Ijustwannateach]

Um, the B.Ed helps a heckuva lot. Any other kind of Bachelor's wouldn't have much of a chance, and there aren't many of them in Thailand, even in Bangkok.

How about a Bachelor in Mathematics and Computing?

Most of the "true blue" international schools are very picky about showing a TEACHING qualification to the parents. That would mean at the very least an Ed. of some sort after your name; a teaching license from your home country is also a normal expectation. However, real degrees in subject fields put you at the top of the salary range for the better paid jobs in Thai programs.

Once in a blue moon, someone without a teaching degree does get a teaching job in the "true blue" schools, but they don't like to advertise this (or admit it).

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

I had forgotten Steven's suggestion that if they want you to teach illegally, add another 10,000 or million baht to the salary. Another modest proposal: ask them to sign an oath to the Lord Buddha that they will pay you 98,000 baht per day for every 24 hours you are imprisoned because of their criminal neglect of Thai law.