Used Isaan house "check list" recommendations

[toenail]

I have worked in Thailand 14 years and now have decided to retire in quiet Isaan. (Tired of the city life and ready to have a simple quiet life.)  I have located a remodeled two story house in a village where I have friends living at and I am thinking of purchasing it. (Note: I know a foreigner cannot own land in Thailand, but I would be have this house in a company name since I have heard horror stories about putting it in one's Thai girlfriend/ wife's name.) The simple rectangular two story house is the typical one room structure on top that is wood and a couple rooms (including bathroom) on the ground floor. The place was recently remodeled by a farang so everything is basically new including the wood and windows.  The place looks attractive since it has been taken care of, has a great garden in the back (my hobby), a new water storage tank and pump... But I know there is more than appearance to the house. What "technical" research should I look into?  Example: electricity - how do I know if I have enough to add another AC in the future?; how can I tell if the electric outlets in the kitchen will handle an electric stove top, microwave, and electric coffee pot at the same time? Do the circuit breakers help giving this information?  The water pressure seems to be ok and the flow of the water from the toilet and shower is fine. (septic tank in the back). What about roofing? (It is the metal type- not the clay tiles.) I understand there are not taxes to be paid on the house. What "hidden" costs would there be?  Is the electricity and water bill cheaper than it is in cities such as Chonburi?  In the West, the seller is held accountable if there is something wrong with the house but in Thailand I get nervous about the "functioning" part of the house since there is no protection to the buyer.  So if there are any suggestions what I should look out for in buying a house in Isaan, your comments would be appreciated. (As you can tell, I have never built a house. 555)

Thanks

[DILLIGAD]

I have worked in Thailand 14 years and now have decided to retire in quiet Isaan. (Tired of the city life and ready to have a simple quiet life.)  I have located a remodeled two story house in a village where I have friends living at and I am thinking of purchasing it. (Note: I know a foreigner cannot own land in Thailand, but I would be have this house in a company name since I have heard horror stories about putting it in one's Thai girlfriend/ wife's name.) The simple rectangular two story house is the typical one room structure on top that is wood and a couple rooms (including bathroom) on the ground floor. The place was recently remodeled by a farang so everything is basically new including the wood and windows.  The place looks attractive since it has been taken care of, has a great garden in the back (my hobby), a new water storage tank and pump... But I know there is more than appearance to the house. What "technical" research should I look into?  Example: electricity - how do I know if I have enough to add another AC in the future?; how can I tell if the electric outlets in the kitchen will handle an electric stove top, microwave, and electric coffee pot at the same time? Do the circuit breakers help giving this information?  The water pressure seems to be ok and the flow of the water from the toilet and shower is fine. (septic tank in the back). What about roofing? (It is the metal type- not the clay tiles.) I understand there are not taxes to be paid on the house. What "hidden" costs would there be?  Is the electricity and water bill cheaper than it is in cities such as Chonburi?  In the West, the seller is held accountable if there is something wrong with the house but in Thailand I get nervous about the "functioning" part of the house since there is no protection to the buyer.  So if there are any suggestions what I should look out for in buying a house in Isaan, your comments would be appreciated. (As you can tell, I have never built a house. 555)
Thanks

Check the area isn’t prone to flooding


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[Martyjustice]

The list is quite long.
Is the plumbing vented? If not when it rains hard you have sewer smell in house.
Are the electrical outlets 2 wire or 3 wire? Electrical service only supplies 2 wire, hot and return. You have to drive a copper rod for your own ground ( earth for the Brits ).
Electrical panel one big breaker or a actual panel with separate circuits?
Look at wire sizes to determine load ability. Water heaters and oven pull the most. Minimum wire size would be 2.5mm. A\C would be ok on a 2mm branch if its not loaded with too much other stuff.
Remember that the standard entrance is only about 66amps/220v/50hz. So you can’t cook in the oven,shower with hot water, and run 3 big a/c units at the same time.
Lastly most homes have leaky windows(air , not water) and no insulation, so cooling is a task.
Sorry I got so wordy. Thai home are usually built strong with concrete post and beam.
Good luck.


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[mstevens]

Why buy?  Why not rent?  Buying in a company name is considered questionable for starters.  Further, if things don't work out you (who knows what village life will be like, and whether this village will be the right place for you?) can leave a rented property much more easily than you can a place you own.  Selling an older house in Thailand is not easy at all - it could remain on the market for years without a single offer.  I really think this is a situation where renting would be better.

[Kerryd]

As Dilligad mentioned, look for signs of flooding (discolouration on posts/walls/fences/etc). If the area tends to flood, you should probably be able to see a distinct line on/around those things which would show how high the (last) flood was. The posts/walls under the house would be the best place to look as the evidence wouldn't likely be washed away by the rains. Don't be scared to look up ! A friend of mine comes from Ayutthaya and a couple years ago the water level in their family home was over 2 meters ! (Of course if you live in an area that is elevated it probably won't be a concern.)

Many Thai-style houses I've seen have a single, rickety power line running from a street pole to the house and then into a single circuit breaker (or not) and then a single outlet which then has an octopus of power bars leading out from it. Older houses (and some newer ones) may have dodgy electrical connections as the work is often done by people who are not actually qualified but learned by watching someone else who wasn't qualified either.  I've seen some electrical work that makes you want to back slowly out of the house, turn around and never go back.
If you've just got that (a single circuit breaker/electrical outlet) then you will have problems running too many things at once. If you've got a proper line connected to a proper circuit breaker box, you'll probably be OK so long as whoever is doing the electrical connections doesn't try to connect everything to a single circuit breaker. 

 

For example. I have an air-con unit in the living room that is rarely used. I found that whenever I did try to use it, it would pop the circuit breaker. Whoever wired that one in apparently decided that the breaker connected to the other air-cons and the bathroom (with it's fan and water heaters) was a better choice than say, the breaker that only had the street light running to it. Seems the air-con unit drew enough power that if anything else was running at the same time (on that same circuit) it would pop the breaker.

 

In another case (and a different place), I was having a problem with an outlet and lifted a ceiling tile off so I could get a look at the wires. There was (originally) one wire leading to that outlet but now there were 6 other lines loosely attached to it ! Whenever someone wanted another line, they'd scrap off a bit of insulation off the original line and then wrap a bit of the new line onto the exposed wire and maybe put a piece of tape over it - if it looked a little too close to some of the other wires. Otherwise they left it bare !

You may want to make sure all your valuable electronics are connected to grounded UPSs as well as quality power bars with built in circuit breakers.  Most Thai houses, especially the older ones, will not be "grounded" and even if the electrical outlets are the "3 prong" style, it is likely that the "ground" isn't connected to anything at all.
Not sure what you'll be having in the house (electonics-wise) but if you are going to have a bunch of expensive items (TVs, computers, fridge/freezer, washers, etc) you may want to consider getting a (qualified) contractor in to redo the whole electrical system. 

Probably not that big of job in a older Thai style place as most of the electrical work is exposed anyways. The biggest hassle may be getting a contractor that understands "grounding" and actually connects everything properly !

 

I've seen some septic systems which were little more than a piece of concrete pipe buried just below ground level and then covered with some old wood. The plumbing runs straight from the house into the pipe. Little wonder that people often find "unpleasant surprises" in their toilets now and then ! May be worth considering having a proper septic tank installed.

 

And as Martyjustice pointed out, most "Thai style" houses are not "airtight" and therefore can be difficult to keep cool (using air conditioners). I still shake my head whenever I go to the g/f's village and look at the house she grew up in (and her gran still lives in) and the houses of her neighbours. Surprisingly bug free and not as hot/humid as I would have imagined they should be. Sheesh, back home we have to have screen doors and screens on the windows/vents to keep the bugs out. Here they barely even have doors ! Or windows ! Despite the gaping holes in the walls and floors (which help keep the place cool with just a fan) there are almost no insects inside the houses.

But if you are trying to cool the place with air conditioners, you may find that you have to run them longer and at a cooler setting to offset the warmer air that will filter in. Expect a higher electrical bill as a result.

 

Your electricity costs (and water) may be cheaper than in a place like Chon Buri, but it could depend on where you are (and where you were in Chon Buri). I found my electrical bill went down, a lot, when I moved from a rented apartment in South Pattaya to a rented house in Nong Prue because I wasn't being saddled with a huge mark-up by the landlord. 

Our water used to come from the "village" (Chok Chai) and then it was switched to the Provincial Water Authority. For the first year+ on the Provincial supply, I was being charged 192 baht a month but this year the rate dropped down to about 76 baht/month (same amount used, just cheaper rate per c3).

As with everything else, the water system may be "dodgy" as well. Even if your water is coming from a local well/reservoir, you may want to install a filtering system, especially if you are going to be drinking that water (or using it for cooking). I know some Thais who used the piped water for washing (dishes/clothes) and showering, but buy bottled water for drinking/cooking.

(Remember that your water is sitting in a holding tank as well, in a hot country. A filter system would probably be a very good investment and probably pay for itself very quickly.)

 
Depending where you are, you may have to invest in "satellite internet". (Maybe satellite TV as well.) 

No property taxes (that I know of) but you will have the company registration fees to deal with. Depending on who is managing your company for you, that could come to 15,000/year (or more, or less). 
I've heard that some villages have a "fund" that people can pay into which is then used to pay for the funerals of those that can't afford it. I think it is a voluntary thing though. Not sure if there are any other fees to pay in your average Thai village.

(These are some of the things I've picked up on when I've been looking at different houses in different villages as well, with the intent of possibly relocating one day. In many cases the problems are not that big and can be handled by yourself if you are any kind of handyman but in other cases it simply may not be worth the effort and cost.)

[4MyEgo]

I suppose the 1st thing you would want to know is, what title the land is, important for reselling because a lot of land in villages is not Chanote if I have spelt it correcty, (clear title).

 

Like someone else said, resale can take years.

 

Rent is so cheap in villages, I know a bloke who pays around 5,000 baht for a two level house within a short walking distance to the main town, now depending on how much your paying for the house, you should do your calculations, and don't expect any growth in value.

 

Village blackouts and water supply being a weekly occurrence, so make sure you get your generators and have at least one 1,000 litre rain water tank and pump to store your water for when the water is shut down, whenever.

 

The other alternative is to buy a block of land and build, if you have a good builder and a smart wife/GF who can bargain, shouldn't cost you more than 3 mil all up including the land Vs how much you are going to spend on a 2nd hand hot box (upstairs).

 

The other alternative would be to buy a condominium in a city not too far from your mates, i.e. around an hours drive, central to everything, in your name, no need for a company name and yearly outlay, and drive to visit your mates twice a week.

 

Its a tuff one, good luck with it either way.

 

[CGW]

2 hours ago, mstevens said:

  Buying in a company name is considered questionable for starters. 

Please share, why is it "questionable" I have had zero problems buying and selling a fair few houses over the past twenty years using company names. What is your experience?

[xylophone]

22 hours ago, toenail said:

Note: I know a foreigner cannot own land in Thailand, but I would be have this house in a company name

Forming a company for the sole purpose of property ownership is illegal in Thailand as is forming a Thai nominee company (Thai shareholders set up with no financial input/investment from them).

 

This from the Land Department Minister (office of)...........

 

"If it is appears that the company is having foreigner as shareholder or Director or if there is a reason to believe that it is nominating the Thais to hold shares for the foreigners, the officer is to investigate income of every Thai shareholders in the legal entity by looking into their work history of what kind of work they have done and what monthly salary they earned, all of these proved by evidence.

 

If the purchased is funded by loan, then loan evidence must be provided. If after the investigation, it is led to believe that the application for land ownership is circumventing the law or any individual is purchasing land to the benefit of foreigners under the Land Act 74, paragraph 2, the officer is to investigate the case in detail and report to the Land Bureau to be waiting for further advise from the Minister".

 

Some more info... http://www.thailaws....business_42.htm

 

AND

 

"Expats who own land illegally in Thailand could be deported under tough new laws being drafted by the government.

 

Thai ombudsman Siracha Charoenpanij said earlier this month that he was drawing up "carrot-and-stick" legislation to protect the country from illegal foreign nominee ownership.

 

Under Thai laws, foreign nationals are not allowed to own residential land. They can, however, buy apartments so long as no more than 49 per cent of a development is owned by foreigners. They can also purchase detached villas, but while they can own the house, they cannot own the land the house is on and are only able to lease it for 30 years at a time.

 

To get around these restrictions, some have entered into complicated structures whereby a company is set up to purchase the land. A Thai national holds the majority of shares in that company, but in reality may have no financial interest in the company and may own it on behalf of the foreign buyer.

 

It is these such "nominee ownership" arrangements that the government now wants to crack down on, and Charoenpanij has also proposed a reward – of 20 per cent of the land’s value when sold – for those providing information about illegal ownership. His plans also include penalties for lawyers or consultants who advise foreign buyers on nominee structures".

 

Unquestionably it is illegal to buy a house via a company.

 

26 minutes ago, CGW said:

Please share, why is it "questionable" I have had zero problems buying and selling a fair few houses over the past twenty years using company names. What is your experience?

See above.

[CGW]

28 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Unquestionably it is illegal to buy a house via a company.

 

See above.

"Unquestionably" not so sure about that! to the best of my knowledge this so called law has NEVER been enforced, too many lawyers making too much money! The article refers to proposals for a new law, does it not? "tough new laws being drafted by the government" were they drafted and are now in place?

[55Jay]

If it's in livable condition, I always like the suggestion of renting first if you can, to get a feel for the house and people, and village rhythm - typically set the  thump thump thump sound of Issan Mor Lam music. LOL.   A rent to own option for 1 year trial, then buy, or walk away, would be ideal.

 

Good that you've got friends living in/around there, so you shouldn't feel isolated, and I'm sure they've revealed the ups and downs of living in that area.  If not, be sure to ask.

 

The material condition of the house is a big topic and I'm sure there are plenty here experienced with the old, wooden Thai style houses.    Best of luck with whatever you decide to do. 

 

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, CGW said:

"Unquestionably" not so sure about that! to the best of my knowledge this so called law has NEVER been enforced, too many lawyers making too much money! The article refers to proposals for a new law, does it not? "tough new laws being drafted by the government" were they drafted and are now in place?

This may help from a top legal company here which states the law as it is...…….

 

It helps to become familiar the Foreign Business Act 1999. This sets out the rights of foreign companies in Thailand, as well as what is not permitted.

 

Most, although not all, foreign businesses looking to set up in Thailand require a Thai majority shareholding. Many foreigners prefer to form a Thai majority company, to allow the company to operate a business in a category that is otherwise restricted to foreigners. The registration of a Thai majority company generally requires less registered capital and less paperwork than the registration of a foreign company. A Thai majority company can also buy land.

 

Others however prefer the simpler but highly illegal practice of nominee shareholders. A nominee shareholder is a shareholder in name only; in reality nominee shareholders lacks any real financial stake or interest in the company.  There are companies in Thailand who will offer to supply Thai nominee shareholders. This is extremely high risk as not only will you have no knowledge of who the shareholder of your company is now will they owe you any loyalty, they are likely to be professional shareholders who will probably be listed as shareholders in multiple companies which will soon wave a red flag to the authorities.

 

1). Unquestionably it is illegal to buy a house via a company.

 

 The Thailand Alien Business act is quite specific, and there is a blanket offence of circumventing land ownership laws that means anything the appears to allow foreigners to own houses is actually illegal.

 

2). Be careful here because it is illegal for a company to be formed with the sole purpose of owning a property. If the company is a trading/working entity employing Thai workers, paying taxes etc then a house can be purchased, but then again the company has to also have a majority Thai ownership and these majority Thai shareholders must be able to show how much they have invested in this company and from whence the funds came.

 

This is to prevent the “Thai nominee company” illegal workaround and nominee companies are illegal...

 

http://www.thailand-lawyer.com/land_purchase.html

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/9413075/Expats-warned-of-illegal-home-crackdown-in-Thailand.html

 

http://www.thailandlawonline.com/66-real-estate-legal-issues/14-can-a-thai-company-be-my-nominee-for-land-acquisition

 

http://www.thailandlawonline.com/article-older-archive/foreign-business-nominee-company-shareholder

[CGW]

35 minutes ago, xylophone said:

1). Unquestionably it is illegal to buy a house via a company.

So, it appears I, along with half the law offices in Thailand that service these companies and the tax authorities that collect the taxes annually are criminals! Until someone is prosecuted I'm not going to worry about it, if I had taken notice of this "law" over the past 20 years I would have paid out a fortune in rent, half the law offices in Thailand where there are expatiates rely on the income from these companies, never say never! but they will never fully enforce this"law", yes, the last time it was news was about five years ago, believe Thailand had a government then! since then they have far too much on their plates to start pissing off the international community as well.

For a "law" that so many like to quote I have yet to hear off a single conviction, should there ever be a conviction every law office in the land would be complaining to the "government" 

[xylophone]

Well, there have been prosecutions and a few crackdowns where I am, not only that, a friend has quite probably lost his house because it was sold out from under him by his crooked lawyer, however when he tried to fight the case in court there was a problem.........he had bought the house through the Thai nominee company route, so the judge ruled that it was an illegal purchase in the first place so he didn't have a leg to stand on.

 

Anyway it doesn't matter how much one argues on this thread or with one another, the law is the law, and if you should wish to break it, then as they say here, up to you .

[The Fat Controller]

Having refurbished our 25 year old house, here are my thoughts.

 

If it's concrete base and brick/block, they over-engineer in general so that should last years.

 

Will it flood in the rainy sason ?

 

Electrics : We had unprotected cables in the roof space, rodents got in and chewed them. We did a total rewire with eathed sockets and correctly sized cables.

 

Water : Where does it come from ? Is the supply reliable ? If you are on a meter, turn off all outlets and check it stops moving, we had an underground leak which was a nightmare to isolate.

 

Waste Water : Not much to add, make sure you know what system you have.

 

Garden : Big trees are nice to look at, but not such a good idea if they are too close to the house, watch for root damage and be aware of how they could fall in a storm.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, CGW said:

So, it appears I, along with half the law offices in Thailand that service these companies and the tax authorities that collect the taxes annually are criminals! Until someone is prosecuted I'm not going to worry about it, if I had taken notice of this "law" over the past 20 years I would have paid out a fortune in rent, half the law offices in Thailand where there are expatiates rely on the income from these companies, never say never! but they will never fully enforce this"law", yes, the last time it was news was about five years ago, believe Thailand had a government then! since then they have far too much on their plates to start pissing off the international community as well.

For a "law" that so many like to quote I have yet to hear off a single conviction, should there ever be a conviction every law office in the land would be complaining to the "government" 

Not wishing to totally p!ss on your parade but there's been quite a few statutes that were already on the books and casually ignored for decades that this current government has recently chosen to enforce. When the law looks defcient, they draft a more robust one, like the one mentioned earlier. It's one of the things that has endeared the junta to a certain farang demographic but in general, it has made things better for the locals and this trickles down to the huge minority of farangs who have pitched their tents here.

 

If you have been here long enough to flip properties while happily joining various lawyers in giving a stiff middle finger to the law and the revenue department, then I'm truly happy for you. Good luck and keep dodging the bullet and hope that the first single conviction isn't yours.

 

I observe that you frequently use the term "law" in place of law so I guess you already "know" all of the above.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, CGW said:

So, it appears I, along with half the law offices in Thailand that service these companies and the tax authorities that collect the taxes annually are criminals! Until someone is prosecuted I'm not going to worry about it, if I had taken notice of this "law" over the past 20 years I would have paid out a fortune in rent, half the law offices in Thailand where there are expatiates rely on the income from these companies, never say never! but they will never fully enforce this"law", yes, the last time it was news was about five years ago, believe Thailand had a government then! since then they have far too much on their plates to start pissing off the international community as well.

For a "law" that so many like to quote I have yet to hear off a single conviction, should there ever be a conviction every law office in the land would be complaining to the "government" 

Not wishing to totally p!ss on your parade but there's been quite a few statutes that were already on the books and casually ignored for decades that this current government has recently chosen to enforce. When the law looks defcient, they draft a more robust one, like the one mentioned earlier. It's one of the things that has endeared the junta to a certain farang demographic but in general, it has made things better for the locals and this trickles down to the huge minority of farangs who have pitched their tents here.

 

If you have been here long enough to flip properties while happily joining various lawyers in giving a stiff middle finger to the law and the revenue department, then I'm truly happy for you. Good luck and keep dodging the bullet and hope that the first single conviction isn't yours.

 

I observe that you frequently use the term "law" in place of law so I guess you already "know" all of the above.

[NanLaew]

Anyway, that's going off topic.

 

I think the usual points for a check list has been mentioned regarding utilities. The age of the building will give us some sort of idea of the type of electrical installation it has. That's pretty important, even having the right size meter on the power pole outside to handle any future upgrades like air conditioning.

 

Regarding water, the mains pressure and storage system has been covered but check on what the waste water handling is like. A septic tank is a must and not too difficult an add-on if required. I would go ahead and replace every piece of flexible half-inch hose and tap coupling. Install half-inch stop valves on each water outlet too so that any leaks can be isolated without running outside to turn off at the meter. Check the flushing toilets for leaks and replace as needed; the Fluidmaster brand (green and red box) is highly recommended. Chances are if there are old taps with washers, a few may be dripping so replace them as well. You may also want to invest in primary (on the inlet side) and secondary (on the pressure pump outlet side) water filters.

 

Roof insulation is a good idea if there are just ceramic tiles on a steel frame. Comes in rolls and lays on top on the inner, flat roof above the rooms. Investigate getting one of those whirling extractor gizmos that draws hot air out by natural convection but may need some venting in the eaves if not already present.

 

Guttering if it hasn't got any or inspect the existing guttering before it starts raining hard. Clean them out and run a hose up there to look for splits and leaks.

[Goanna]

One othet I have not seen mentioned yet..termites. I have a friend who's large entertainment area is completely buggered. So the place is unsaleable. Teak wood may be ok, but a very big trap for the unwary. You could have the entire top floor rooted.

[cracker1]

Ask the vendor if he will rent you the house for six months with the option to buy it at the end of the term.

Try before you buy !

[DILLIGAD]

Ask the vendor if he will rent you the house for six months with the option to buy it at the end of the term.
Try before you buy !

Very good idea but I’d suggest a years contract first and rent received should be reduced from sale price, when the time comes.
That’s what I did.


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[patongphil]

If you are married or have a Thai girlfriend then don't forget to get the house checked for ghosts!!!

[DILLIGAD]

If you are married or have a Thai girlfriend then don't forget to get the house checked for ghosts!!!

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[kamalabob2]

Every parcel of land in Thailand (not Temple, military or Government land) has an annual land tax. It is nominal, and it depends on zoning. It is a pittance to pay, and it is the right thing to do to contribute to civic projects in your location. The land owner need not be the person who pays it. They gladly accept an expat's money and issue the receipt when you pay the land tax for your spouse.