Pump Contactor Thermal Overload

[carlyai]

I have an IPG-22TH thermal overload combined with the contactor.

 

Hard to find any technical bulletins on this thermal overload, or for the contactor. I seem to remember from before that this contactor/thermal overload set up is similar to other brands, and there are probably data sheets around but I haven't found them.

 

I tried the 'test' button, and nothing seemed to happen. The contactor did not open and power was still applied to the pump.

 

Could this be a wiring error or should depressing the 'test' button cause the contactor to open regardless?

 

Do I have to depress the 'test' button for a length of time?

 

Also, as we won't be here for maybe 6 months, I've set the trip to automatic reset. OK?

 

The overload trip current setting is another thing I'm not sure of; the pump draws about 5 Amps on the meter, (probably more but that's what the Amp meter reads). What should I set the thermal overload current to?

 

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[carlyai]

With a bit more thinking: should the NC contacts open on a test or high current/heat condition? If they open then should they be wired in the active feed to the contactor to drop it out?

I think there is a bi-metal strip somewhere that causes the overload action, but I'm not sure if it is internal or just switches the auxiliary contacts from normally closed to open.

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[Fruit Trader]

5 minutes ago, carlyai said:

With a bit more thinking: should the NC contacts open on a test or high current/heat condition? If they open then should they be wired in the active feed to the contactor to drop it out?

I think there is a bi-metal strip somewhere that causes the overload action, but I'm not sure if it is internal or just switches the auxiliary contacts from normally closed to open.

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They should open on test.

Pull out wire number 3 on the overload upper connections and if the contactor fails to energise the overload is faulty. If not its most likely wired incorrectly.

 

Also, check how the load is split at the overload before setting.

[carlyai]

'Also, check how the load is split at the overload before setting.'

The overload goes to the 2 HP pump and chlorinator. When running the Ampmeter reads about 5 A.

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[Fruit Trader]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

'Also, check how the load is split at the overload before setting.'

The overload goes to the 2 HP pump and chlorinator. When running the Ampmeter reads about 5 A.

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Good practice would place your motor alone on the overload and not include the chlorinator. This would be done by feeding the chlorinator via another relay/contactor or splitting the motor contactor output.

 

Motor overloads are often set to a factor above motor full load amps like 125% as the load might vary. You say you have steady running load of 5 then I would set to 6.5

Put the reset to manual as its best to go check why a pool pump has tripped.

[Wirejerker]

The overload unit should be set to the current stated on the nameplate of the motor.
To manually trip the overload PULL the red button rather then push.
It’s rare for a terminal overload to have nuisance trips it usually indicates a problem that needs intervention or you will burn out a motor


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[Fruit Trader]

28 minutes ago, Wirejerker said:

The overload unit should be set to the current stated on the nameplate of the motor.
To manually trip the overload PULL the red button rather then push.
It’s rare for a terminal overload to have nuisance trips it usually indicates a problem that needs intervention or you will burn out a motor


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If you have a static load you can go below the motor plate FLC.

[Aussieroaming]

Dont set your trip switch to auto reset. If the pool pump gets something caught in the suction you dont want the pump motor cycling on and off without removing the obstruction. Otherwise you might either burn the motor out or run the wet end dry, or overheat the contactor switch if you have several events in quick succession.

[Wirejerker]

Yes you can but you open yourself up to nuisance tripping.
A motor will draw 6 times the rated current stated on the name plate on start not 6 times the static load. A thermal overload unit has one purpose in life and that is to protect the motor. Set it on the nameplate rating and it will then match the motor allowing short overloads such as starting and plugging as long as the timed average is below the rating of the motor. Setting the TOL low does not save power or protect the motor any better.


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[Fruit Trader]

1 hour ago, Wirejerker said:

Yes you can but you open yourself up to nuisance tripping.
A motor will draw 6 times the rated current stated on the name plate on start not 6 times the static load. A thermal overload unit has one purpose in life and that is to protect the motor. Set it on the nameplate rating and it will then match the motor allowing short overloads such as starting and plugging as long as the timed average is below the rating of the motor. Setting the TOL low does not save power or protect the motor any better.


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Thanks for the bedtime story.

I accept you stating the obvious but I have no idea where you are going with the power saving part.

Just a simple example to help you along. We have 3 roller conveyors with two of their overloads set tight so that we don't wear slip joints and tooth belts too much when stuff gets trapped. As thermal overloads are quite lazy we don't trip during starting peak or from any short peaks during normal operation.

[Wirejerker]

Thanks for the bedtime story.
I accept you stating the obvious but I have no idea where you are going with the power saving part.
Just a simple example to help you along. We have 3 roller conveyors with two of their overloads set tight so that we don't wear slip joints and tooth belts too much when stuff gets trapped. As thermal overloads are quite lazy we don't trip during starting peak or from any short peaks during normal operation.

Sorry. I did not understand why anyone would set the OL under the motor rating. [emoji99]

[carlyai]

They should open on test.
Pull out wire number 3 on the overload upper connections and if the contactor fails to energise the overload is faulty. If not its most likely wired incorrectly.
 
Also, check how the load is split at the overload before setting.

Thanks for reply. That's 3 upper on the rhs of the contactor near the fuse?



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[carlyai]

Thanks for the reply. We're off for about 6 months.
I have 3 skimmers, and only 1 common 1 m pipe into the pump, so the chances of suction being blocked are smaller.
I have to weigh this decision up.
I have my helper across the road trained in vacuuming the pool, resetting pumps etc. may be a bit much.

Dont set your trip switch to auto reset. If the pool pump gets something caught in the suction you dont want the pump motor cycling on and off without removing the obstruction. Otherwise you might either burn the motor out or run the wet end dry, or overheat the contactor switch if you have several events in quick succession.

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[carlyai]

The overload unit should be set to the current stated on the nameplate of the motor.
To manually trip the overload PULL the red button rather then push.
It’s rare for a terminal overload to have nuisance trips it usually indicates a problem that needs intervention or you will burn out a motor


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Thanks again, will try pull not push.

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[carlyai]

Can you learned people answer me this please?

Is the thermal sensing inside the unit and will automatically trip the contactor, or does the trip come from the NC contacts?
If the trip comes from the NC contacts, then opening them should open the live feed to the contactor. Is this correct?

I bought a standard 2 HP pump control box, but installed an OU voltage protector and a timer. I could have stuffed up the wiring is more what I'm thinking.

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[Wirejerker]

The thermal overload trip is on terminals 95 to 96


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[carlyai]

The thermal overload trip is on terminals 95 to 96


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Great thanks, so that contact opens on overload.
What contact on the contactor do terminals 95 and 96 usually feed?
My feed from terminals 95 and 96 go thru a 3 position auto, stop, manual switch and run lights, but I'm using a timer (off, auto, manual) to control the pump/chlorinator, so I can just take 95/96 to the correct contactor terminal?

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[Wirejerker]

I’ve done a ruff drawing from what you explained. There is a few different ways to wire these elements and it all works identical so if yours is wired different it not necessary wrong. eg the TOL is wired often on either side of the coil so it can be between the coil and the neutral or between the timer contact and the coil as drawn. I hope this helps.


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[Aussieroaming]

13 hours ago, carlyai said:

Thanks for the reply. We're off for about 6 months.
I have 3 skimmers, and only 1 common 1 m pipe into the pump, so the chances of suction being blocked are smaller.
I have to weigh this decision up.
I have my helper across the road trained in vacuuming the pool, resetting pumps etc. may be a bit much.

 

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Fair enough, you know your systems limitations.

[carlyai]

I’ve done a ruff drawing from what you explained. There is a few different ways to wire these elements and it all works identical so if yours is wired different it not necessary wrong. eg the TOL is wired often on either side of the coil so it can be between the coil and the neutral or between the timer contact and the coil as drawn. I hope this helps.

 

 

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Thanks. Yes that's what I worked out yesterday as I don't really need the stop/ start buttons and lights.

 

I just like knowelagable people to give me their thoughts as I sometimes overlook things.

 

Like I was going to move the timer outside the control box so my pool- looker-afterer didn't have to put his hand in the box to switch the timer off or manual. I then remembered that the wasps would probably build houses in the timer terminals, so I reinstalled the timer in the box.

 

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[VocalNeal]

Am I allowed to ask why you have a 32 amp unit which is for a 20HP motor?

[Fruit Trader]

41 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Am I allowed to ask why you have a 32 amp unit which is for a 20HP motor?

Well spotted.

 

Not sure where this is heading. No answer on the overload operation yet and now it seems this pool pump control has no external auto/manual switch.

Best view is from the back seats me thinks.

[carlyai]

Sorry, been visiting family.

 

First, I was shopping in Bangkok Outlet, and there was this sign that said 2HP pump control unit on special, so I bought it.

 

Secondly it does have an auto, manual and off switch, as well as start and stop buttons.

 

I put an OU voltage protector and time switch inside the control box and was switching the contactor from the timer.

 

Maybe the 0 fell of the 2 HP control box.

 

That would also explain why the amp meter reads so low on the meter scale. I was wondering about that.

 

 

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[carlyai]

Here's the sign on the box. Says 2 HP and 'water', so took it as a 2 HP pump control box.

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[carlyai]

Thanks for the help.
This project, like a few others is ongoing. In the 'to be completed in-box'.
First was to get the controller controlling the pump and chlorinator. Next making sure the thermal overload does work. Then get the timer auto/manual/off controlled from outside the box with lights working.

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