Tobbaco

[webfact]

Erdogan hints Turkey may ban some Israeli goods because of Gaza violence - media

 

FILE PHOTO: Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan speaks during an iftar dinner in Ankara, Turkey May 21, 2018. Murat Kula/Presidential Palace/Handout via REUTERS

 

ISTANBUL (Reuters) - President Tayyip Erdogan has hinted that Turkey might consider imposing a ban on imports of some Israeli goods over the killing of Palestinian protesters by Israeli forces on the Gaza border, media reported on Tuesday.

 

Erdogan, who is campaigning for re-election in June, last week hosted Muslim leaders who condemned the events in Gaza and the opening of the United States embassy in Jerusalem. [nL5N1SP1XW]

 

Speaking to reporters on a return flight from Bosnia on Sunday, Erdogan said the 57-member Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) had recommended that a boycott be imposed on Israeli goods.

 

"I hope that OIC member countries implement a boycott decision in line with the recommendation. Consequently, no product should be brought from there any more. Naturally we will assess this situation in the same way," Hurriyet newspaper reported Erdogan as saying.

 

A declaration by the OIC on Friday repeated a call for countries to ban "products of the illegal Israeli settlements from entering their markets", referring to goods produced in the Israeli-occupied West Bank and Golan Heights.

 

It did not seek a ban on all Israeli goods.

 

The declaration also called for "economic restrictions (on) countries, officials, parliaments, companies or individuals" who followed the United States and moved their embassies to Jerusalem.

 

U.S. President Donald Trump's move to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital and shift the U.S. embassy there reversed decades of U.S. policy, upsetting the Arab world and Western allies.

 

Erdogan said last week that Trump's move had emboldened Israel to put down the protests at the border with Gaza with excessive force, likening the actions of Israeli forces to Nazi Germany's treatment of Jews in World War Two, when millions were killed in concentration camps.

 

The violence in Gaza, where more than 60 Palestinians were killed on May 14 led to Turkey and Israel expelling each other's senior diplomats. Erdogan also traded barbs on Twitter with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

 

Israel was the 10th-largest market for Turkish exports in 2017, buying some $3.4 billion of goods, according to IMF statistics.

 

Data from Turkey's statistics institute showed that trade volume between the two was at $4.9 billion in 2017. Turkey, which has a trade surplus with Israel, imports plastics and mineral oils among other goods from there.

 

Erdogan said Turkey would reconsider its ties with Israel.

 

"We will put our relations on the table, in particular our economic and trade relations. We have an election ahead of us. After the election we will take our steps in this direction," Erdogan was quoted as saying.

 

(Reporting by Daren Butler; Writing by Tuvan Gumrukcu; Editing by Richard Balmforth)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-05-22

[Thorgal]

He,  and many others should have started earlier...

[Jingthing]

Erdogan, brutal dictator of Turkey, has no moral credibility whatsoever. Let him bark about Israel boycotts for internal political purposes. It's just another political show of the moment.

[Morch]

From the OP:

 

Quote

Erdogan, who is campaigning for re-election in June....

 

About it, in a nutshell.

 

Then there....

 

Turkish lira extends declines with heavy drop to new record

https://www.ft.com/content/9e31de96-5cec-11e8-ad91-e01af256df68

 

Erdogan Imperils Turkey’s Rating With Bonds Sinking Below Senegal’s

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-21/erdogan-imperils-turkey-s-rating-as-bonds-sink-below-senegal-s

 

‘God Help Turkey,’ Says Brokerage as Lira Goes Into Meltdown

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-21/-god-help-turkey-says-brokerage-as-lira-goes-into-meltdown

 

Turkey’s economy is entering a ‘slow burning crisis,’ analysts warn

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/15/turkeys-economy-is-entering-a-slow-burning-crisis-analysts-warn.html

 

Always nice to have an outside diversion before the election, especially if the economy isn't doing too great.

 

[dave_boo]

So Turkey is talking about not purchasing up to 1.5B USD from Israel. And should Israel respond in kind, Turkey could lose a 3.4B USD market.

 

Makes sense.

[John1012]

16 minutes ago, dave_boo said:

So Turkey is talking about not purchasing up to 1.5B USD from Israel. And should Israel respond in kind, Turkey could lose a 3.4B USD market.

 

Makes sense.

Excellent idea, when Turkey is on the verge of bankruptcy, perhaps the people will rise up and cauterise the festering  wound that is Erdogan. 

[Morch]

39 minutes ago, dave_boo said:

So Turkey is talking about not purchasing up to 1.5B USD from Israel. And should Israel respond in kind, Turkey could lose a 3.4B USD market.

 

Makes sense.

 

Turkey isn't talking about anything of the sort. Erdogan does, and half-heartily at that. Trade relations between the countries are generally resilient to political turmoil (except in certain sectors, notably tourism). As Erdogan put himself put it in a rare moment of honesty a few years back, the two countries need each other. For example, since Erdogan managed to mess relations with Egypt, Turkish commercial maritime traffic to the Gulf more heavily utilizes Israel's ports.

 

Another angle which may explain the outburst is gas. Turkey is interested in a possible gas pipe from Israel/Cyprus fields in the Mediterranean, to balance it's dependency on Russian supply (and possibly, onward sales to Europe). At the same time, there are similar talks between Israel, Cyprus, Egypt and Greece, which seem to have sidelined Turkey some. Erdogan ain't too happy about that.

 

But first and foremost, domestic politics and the upcoming elections (4 weeks away). While Erdogan himself is likely to win the presidential elections, his party faces a semi-united opposition, which may win the majority of votes on the parliamentary elections. Erdogan is basically playing to motivate and shore support from his base. I don't think the OP statements will amount to much, though, as diverting attention using external issues is one thing, highlighting issues pertaining to the troublesome economy another.

 

[dave_boo]

6 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Turkey isn't talking about anything of the sort. Erdogan does, and half-heartily at that. Trade relations between the countries are generally resilient to political turmoil (except in certain sectors, notably tourism). As Erdogan put himself put it in a rare moment of honesty a few years back, the two countries need each other. For example, since Erdogan managed to mess relations with Egypt, Turkish commercial maritime traffic to the Gulf more heavily utilizes Israel's ports.

 

Another angle which may explain the outburst is gas. Turkey is interested in a possible gas pipe from Israel/Cyprus fields in the Mediterranean, to balance it's dependency on Russian supply (and possibly, onward sales to Europe). At the same time, there are similar talks between Israel, Cyprus, Egypt and Greece, which seem to have sidelined Turkey some. Erdogan ain't too happy about that.

 

But first and foremost, domestic politics and the upcoming elections (4 weeks away). While Erdogan himself is likely to win the presidential elections, his party faces a semi-united opposition, which may win the majority of votes on the parliamentary elections. Erdogan is basically playing to motivate and shore support from his base. I don't think the OP statements will amount to much, though, as diverting attention using external issues is one thing, highlighting issues pertaining to the troublesome economy another.

 

I'm not suggesting that he'll go through with it. Everything in the past suggests he won't. 

 

More of a comment on the fact that politicians around the world can say the most inane things and the general population eats it up.

[Srikcir]

On 5/22/2018 at 4:03 PM, webfact said:

President Tayyip Erdogan has hinted that Turkey might consider imposing a ban on imports of some Israeli goods over the killing of Palestinian protesters by Israeli forces on the Gaza border

Turkey could take much greater reprisal against Israel - with Iraq's cooperation.

Israel's major supplier of oil is from Kurdistan, now no longer semi-autonomous with regard to its oil production but controlled by The Republic of Iraq. Iraq is member Organization of Islamic Cooperation as is Iran.

While Israel may be able to develop its Tamar and Leviathan gas fields in the Mediterranean in the coming decade, export of the gas would be through a connection with the Trans-Anatolian Natural Gas Pipeline currently working between Azerbaijan and Turkey to Europe.

[JemJem]

11 hours ago, Morch said:

 

 

But first and foremost, domestic politics and the upcoming elections (4 weeks away). While Erdogan himself is likely to win the presidential elections, his party faces a semi-united opposition, which may win the majority of votes on the parliamentary elections. Erdogan is basically playing to motivate and shore support from his base. I don't think the OP statements will amount to much, though, as diverting attention using external issues is one thing, highlighting issues pertaining to the troublesome economy another.

 

 

I am also sadly guessing that Erdogan will win the presidential election. And, by the way, I thought you were aware that the whole system had recently changed in Turkey. In the new system, the president will have a lot more power than before; and the parliament will have a lot less power than before. So, even if Erdogan's party AKP doesn't get the majority, it won't mean much, if Erdogan gets the Presidency. He has already consolidated his power in most key institutions. And, his fanatical base is still loyal to him.

 

Also, even if the parliament is to have some power in some cases, in some instances, they won't be able to stay united against Erdogan/AKP (for example, sadly, the pro-Kurdish, leftist HDP is often shunned by other opposition parties in some issues).

 

I am fearing the worst kinds of scenarios for the near future. Turkey is heading towards being a fascist dictatorship. And, what will the West do ? Guessing that is easy : 'expressing concern' every now and then.  I am sure the EU won't do anything concrete because its hands are tied_Erdogan has taken EU hostage with his 'refugee card'. Maybe (JUST MAYBE), the US will ban the sale of arms to Turkey, which would hardly dent Erdogan's fascism, as he can purchase them from other countries.

 

Sad !

Edited May 23, 2018 by JemJem

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, JemJem said:

Maybe (JUST MAYBE), the US will ban the sale of arms to Turkey, which would hardly dent Erdogan's fascism, as he can purchase them from other countries.

Already a fact.

Turkey, a NATO ally of the U.S., will follow through with a deal to purchase anti-aircraft defenses from Russia, which could pose a significant international relations challenge to the Trump administration.

"Our President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has made it perfectly clear that the agreement between Turkey and Russia is final, and the issue of the S-400 purchase is closed,” - Turkish Foreign Ministry spokesman Hami Aksoy told Russian-run media outlet TASS, April 2018

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/turkey-deal-to-buy-russian-weapons-is-final

 

[Morch]

12 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Turkey could take much greater reprisal against Israel - with Iraq's cooperation.

Israel's major supplier of oil is from Kurdistan, now no longer semi-autonomous with regard to its oil production but controlled by The Republic of Iraq. Iraq is member Organization of Islamic Cooperation as is Iran.

While Israel may be able to develop its Tamar and Leviathan gas fields in the Mediterranean in the coming decade, export of the gas would be through a connection with the Trans-Anatolian Natural Gas Pipeline currently working between Azerbaijan and Turkey to Europe.

 

Turkey could, perhaps. Erdogan? Not sure. Other than the upcoming elections and possible effects on national economy, there are persistent rumors (and maybe more than that) that family members are involved in such trades. By the way, if the OIC was actually into it there's a whole lot of other economic angles it could have brought to bear.

 

As for the pipeline thing - connecting through Turkey is the easiest, cheapest and quickest option. The reason other alternatives are looked into is more to do with politics. Erdogan managed to politically alienate all parties involve, and he is seen as volatile - both buyers and sellers would probably be happier skipping such a middle man. 

 

Energy Triangle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Triangle

 

Greece, Israel, Cyprus to speed up Mediterranean pipeline efforts

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-greece-israel-natgas/greece-israel-cyprus-to-speed-up-mediterranean-pipeline-efforts-idUSKBN1962XK?il%3D0

 

Greece, Italy, Israel and Cyprus back natgas pipeline to Europe

https://www.reuters.com/article/energy-mediterranean-natgas/greece-italy-israel-and-cyprus-back-natgas-pipeline-to-europe-idUSL8N1O537F

 

Amid Turkey Tensions: Israel, Greece and Cyprus Advance Talks on Gas Pipeline to Europe

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israel-greece-and-cyprus-advance-talks-on-gas-pipeline-to-europe-1.5976931

 

[jenny2017]

On 5/22/2018 at 11:02 PM, Jingthing said:

Erdogan, brutal dictator of Turkey, has no moral credibility whatsoever. Let him bark about Israel boycotts for internal political purposes. It's just another political show of the moment.

In a country where not even donkeys are safe, an incredible insane man on the top.

Part of Europe where Asia starts? Please No!!!

[Morch]

10 hours ago, JemJem said:

 

I am also sadly guessing that Erdogan will win the presidential election. And, by the way, I thought you were aware that the whole system had recently changed in Turkey. In the new system, the president will have a lot more power than before; and the parliament will have a lot less power than before. So, even if Erdogan's party AKP doesn't get the majority, it won't mean much, if Erdogan gets the Presidency. He has already consolidated his power in most key institutions. And, his fanatical base is still loyal to him.

 

Also, even if the parliament is to have some power in some cases, in some instances, they won't be able to stay united against Erdogan/AKP (for example, sadly, the pro-Kurdish, leftist HDP is often shunned by other opposition parties in some issues).

 

I am fearing the worst kinds of scenarios for the near future. Turkey is heading towards being a fascist dictatorship. And, what will the West do ? Guessing that is easy : 'expressing concern' every now and then.  I am sure the EU won't do anything concrete because its hands are tied_Erdogan has taken EU hostage with his 'refugee card'. Maybe (JUST MAYBE), the US will ban the sale of arms to Turkey, which would hardly dent Erdogan's fascism, as he can purchase them from other countries.

 

Sad !

 

I am aware of the changes made. And while you may be right about them curbing the possibilities of resisting Erdogan, running the country with a parliament dominated by his own party, would mean even less resistance and much greater legitimacy. IMO, both play a part in Erdogan's considerations, perhaps the second one more so. And sadly, it is also probable that the current "alliance" between opposition parties will not hold, nor does it imply that said parties are all that great themselves. Their main attraction (for me, at least, I think others too) is simply that they aren't the AKP and Erdogan.

 

This is might be drifting a bit off topic, I think, but realistically, what sort of effective action would one expect from the EU and the US? Without disregarding Turkey's "cards", that is.

 

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Already a fact.

Turkey, a NATO ally of the U.S., will follow through with a deal to purchase anti-aircraft defenses from Russia, which could pose a significant international relations challenge to the Trump administration.

"Our President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has made it perfectly clear that the agreement between Turkey and Russia is final, and the issue of the S-400 purchase is closed,” - Turkish Foreign Ministry spokesman Hami Aksoy told Russian-run media outlet TASS, April 2018

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/turkey-deal-to-buy-russian-weapons-is-final

 

 

I don't think NATO limits member countries rights when it comes to arms procurement. There is a policy, or rather, an agenda, of improving coordination on these matters, but it's not enforced in any meaningful way. The most obvious examples would be Eastern European members, still relying on Soviet/Russia weapons systems. Switching over to Western made ones is both costly and slow. And then there's Greece - operating Russia air-defense systems as well.

 

Granted, Turkey's move along with other political developments carries a more significant weight. Once more, nicely played by Putin.

 

Got to wonder how these purchases stand with regard to sanctions laid on Russia. Same goes for East European NATO members having to rely on Russia for maintenance and parts.

[chippendale]

The Mad Sultan is seeking a distraction from his failing economy.

[dexterm]

A simple measure Turkey could take would be to  impose visa restrictions on Israeli tourists..make a visa at least $200 for one month. Let Israel reciprocate if they wish. I am sure there are not as many Turks who wish to visit Israel as vv.

 

When I was last climbing in Turkey there were hordes of Israeli trekkers...sometimes I was the only non Israeli in a guest house. The impact on a few villages would be minimal, and the restriction would perhaps make Israeli tourists reflect that they are not the only ones manning checkpoints to make others' travel plans more difficult.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

A simple measure Turkey could take would be to  impose visa restrictions on Israeli tourists..make a visa at least $200 for one month. Let Israel reciprocate if they wish. I am sure there are not as many Turks who wish to visit Israel as vv.

 

When I was last climbing in Turkey there were hordes of Israeli trekkers...sometimes I was the only non Israeli in a guest house. The impact on a few villages would be minimal, and the restriction would perhaps make Israeli tourists reflect that they are not the only ones manning checkpoints to make others' travel plans more difficult.

 

A cunning plan.

 

If not mistaken, around 250K Israeli tourist arrivals in Turkey last year. Double that if adding connection flights with various Turkish airlines. Turkish arrivals in Israel circa 50K.

 

Following your unbiased advice will simply see most of these tourists flying elsewhere, not as if the competition isn't already fierce, or that there's a shortage of alternative destinations. And by the way, I think a relatively high percent of them Israeli tourists are Arab. Your personal experience is dully noted (along with the apparently obligatory inconsistency), but most of them tourists actually head for Turkey's beach resorts on the Aegean and Mediterranean seas.

 

While it is easy for you to dream up such nonsense (and deciding that the impact would be this or that), I somehow doubt the pundits of the Turkish tourism sector would see things your way.

[unblocktheplanet]

Not buying Israeli weapons would be a great start!

[Scott]

Inflammatory post reported and removed.   Please keep the personal commentary out of the discussion.

 

[dexterm]

19 hours ago, Morch said:

 

A cunning plan.

 

If not mistaken, around 250K Israeli tourist arrivals in Turkey last year. Double that if adding connection flights with various Turkish airlines. Turkish arrivals in Israel circa 50K.

 

Following your unbiased advice will simply see most of these tourists flying elsewhere, not as if the competition isn't already fierce, or that there's a shortage of alternative destinations. And by the way, I think a relatively high percent of them Israeli tourists are Arab. Your personal experience is dully noted (along with the apparently obligatory inconsistency), but most of them tourists actually head for Turkey's beach resorts on the Aegean and Mediterranean seas.

 

While it is easy for you to dream up such nonsense (and deciding that the impact would be this or that), I somehow doubt the pundits of the Turkish tourism sector would see things your way.

>> If I am not mistaken...I think a relatively high percent of them Israeli tourists are Arab. 
...so where are the links to support your figures? btw Israeli transit passengers for connecting flights would usually not need visas.

 

I  was climbing in the Kackar Mts, NE Turkey. I never met a single Israeli Palestinian, but hundreds of Israeli Jews. Why would Israelis risk travelling to Turkey's beaches when Israel has its own?

 

The fine print on travel agents' invoices usually state: "Travellers must ensure their travel documents are in order" ... would make them obtain a visa or lose their payments.

 

$200 a bit steep perhaps; maybe $100...just enough to make it hurt a little but not enough to cancel. Turkey could make it a temporary restriction for this summer just to inconvenience Israelis the way Israelis do Palestinians at checkpoints every day. Send the proceeds of visa sales to Gaza relief agencies.

Edited May 25, 2018 by dexterm

[Morch]

2 hours ago, dexterm said:

>> If I am not mistaken...I think a relatively high percent of them Israeli tourists are Arab. 
...so where are the links to support your figures? btw Israeli transit passengers for connecting flights would usually not need visas.

 

I  was climbing in the Kackar Mts, NE Turkey. I never met a single Israeli Palestinian, but hundreds of Israeli Jews. Why would Israelis risk travelling to Turkey's beaches when Israel has its own?

 

The fine print on travel agents' invoices usually state: "Travellers must ensure their travel documents are in order" ... would make them obtain a visa or lose their payments.

 

$200 a bit steep perhaps; maybe $100...just enough to make it hurt a little but not enough to cancel. Turkey could make it a temporary restriction for this summer just to inconvenience Israelis the way Israelis do Palestinians at checkpoints every day. Send the proceeds of visa sales to Gaza relief agencies.

 

Keep trolling, it's all you got. Not like this is the first time we've discussed it.

 

Turkish minister in Israel on first official visit in seven years

https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/turkish-official-in-first-israel-visit-in-almost-seven-years-292504

 

Turkey: 'We want to see 600,000 tourists from Israel'

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4919563,00.html

 

Israeli tourists flock to Turkey amid rapprochement

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-tourists-flock-to-turkey-amid-rapprochement/

 

Israeli tourists flock to Turkey as relations normalize, number of tourists rise 80 percent

https://www.dailysabah.com/tourism/2017/02/05/israeli-tourists-flock-to-turkey-as-relations-normalize-number-of-tourists-rise-80-percent

 

Airlines flying the Turkey-Israel are Turkish. If relations sour, their business will take a hit. Ideas like raising visa prices are one way to make it happen.

 

Couldn't care less about your supposed traveled and whom you claim to have met. Most tourists congregate in other areas of Turkey, rather than the Kackar, Israelis are no different, and the same goes for Arab citizens of Israel.  Wouldn't know that there's much actual "risk" involved, or that anyone remotely familiar with things could compare both beaches and prices in the two countries.

 

If there were such visa charges, Israelis would simply head elsewhere. And troll all you like, I don't think there's much chance of the Turks being much inclined fulfilling your fantasies. Noticeably, you ask for "support", and provide none yourself - neither when it comes to Turkish interest in such nonsense, or it being a viable proposition.

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Morch

[bristolboy]

On 5/22/2018 at 11:38 PM, Morch said:

From the OP:

 

 

About it, in a nutshell.

 

Then there....

 

Turkish lira extends declines with heavy drop to new record

https://www.ft.com/content/9e31de96-5cec-11e8-ad91-e01af256df68

 

Erdogan Imperils Turkey’s Rating With Bonds Sinking Below Senegal’s

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-21/erdogan-imperils-turkey-s-rating-as-bonds-sink-below-senegal-s

 

‘God Help Turkey,’ Says Brokerage as Lira Goes Into Meltdown

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-21/-god-help-turkey-says-brokerage-as-lira-goes-into-meltdown

 

Turkey’s economy is entering a ‘slow burning crisis,’ analysts warn

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/15/turkeys-economy-is-entering-a-slow-burning-crisis-analysts-warn.html

 

Always nice to have an outside diversion before the election, especially if the economy isn't doing too great.

 

Yes I think Erdogan is going to find that despite his highly successful campaign in Afrin, that will mean little in the face of imminent and rapid economic decline.

[Morch]

10 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Yes I think Erdogan is going to find that despite his highly successful campaign in Afrin, that will mean little in the face of imminent and rapid economic decline.

 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Morch