CRF450L

[jackdd]

5 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

You want the perfect dualie for SE Asia, you just gotta wait till Yamaha bring the T7 out next year guys & gals....

Imho you can't call the T7 a dual sport, that's an adventure bike. It's most likely a bit smaller and more offroad capable than what's currently available, but still very heavy if you take it offroad.

The CRF450L could have been a nice bike, i think somewhere in the 400-600cc range is a good choice for a bike with wich you want to cover some distance on road and offroad as well, but currently it looks like Honda will <deleted> it up.

Edited October 13, 2018 by jackdd

[thaiguzzi]

15 hours ago, jackdd said:

Imho you can't call the T7 a dual sport, that's an adventure bike. It's most likely a bit smaller and more offroad capable than what's currently available, but still very heavy if you take it offroad.

The CRF450L could have been a nice bike, i think somewhere in the 400-600cc range is a good choice for a bike with wich you want to cover some distance on road and offroad as well, but currently it looks like Honda will <deleted> it up.

Whatever. Wait till it's released.

What i cannot understand is that Suzuki have been making a water cooled road legal DRZ400 since around 2000, i believe still currently available new from dealers Stateside, with around 39-40 bhp stock. Tuned with aftermarket stuff, closer to 50 bhp. And if looked after and regularly serviced will do 50k miles/80k kms WITHOUT lifting the top end and looking inside.

But a 2019 Big Red 450 wants it's top end removing & inspecting every 600 hours??

Lotta 600 hours in 80,000 kms......

[canthai55]

23 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

i believe still currently available new from dealers Stateside, with around 39-40 bhp stock. Tuned with aftermarket stuff, closer to 50 bhp. And if looked after and regularly serviced will do 50k miles/80k kms WITHOUT lifting the top end and looking inside.

Also available as a Super Motard

https://www.suzuki.ca/en/node/4391

[thaiguzzi]

2 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Also available as a Super Motard

https://www.suzuki.ca/en/node/4391

Mmm. Interesting. Did not know they ran mag side and cam covers.

Also did not know DRZ's were dry sump.

Suzuki cannot sell these in Europe (for some time now) due to running a carb & hence failing Euro 3, let alone the new ridiculous Euro 4 Emission tests.

I'd have one in a heartbeat over here (18/21" wheels), seen decent ones for 150k ish legit with a book and some ridiculous priced ones over 200k.

May still buy one one day. Also like the KLR 650 and DR650. Sorry, forgot the Big Red XR650L too......

Sorry, back on topic - the ridiculous 2019 10-11k watercooled, fuel injected Honda CRF450L..............

[Nickymaster]

A lot of positive reviews available now. People seem to love this bike. hardly anyone (who actually rode one) complains about performance or weight. Only complain is price, as always.. and fueling in first and second gear. Not a deal breaker. Mainly because of strict emissions rules. An ecu flash should deal with that. Seems that it is coming to Thailand. Can't wait to get one. This is what I have been waiting for.

 

around 300-350 would be perfect...

http://www.superbikemag.com/honda-crf450l-2019-มาแบบนี้ราคาเท่าไร/

[taninthai]

I suppose it possibly could come in at around that price,I believe the crf250l in Thailand is priced around 80,000 bht cheaper than U.K. price.

its true in Europe there is better options for the money ,however as we know Thailand bike market completely different and not many other options if any for this sort of bike.

Just have to wait and see.

[eisfeld]

14 minutes ago, Nickymaster said:

A lot of positive reviews available now. People seem to love this bike. hardly anyone (who actually rode one) complains about performance or weight. Only complain is price, as always.. and fueling in first and second gear. Not a deal breaker. Mainly because of strict emissions rules. An ecu flash should deal with that. Seems that it is coming to Thailand. Can't wait to get one. This is what I have been waiting for.

 

around 300-350 would be perfect...

http://www.superbikemag.com/honda-crf450l-2019-มาแบบนี้ราคาเท่าไร/

Yea most non-EU reviews seem to really like the bike, price bring the only bugger. But the reviews I've seen from EU riders say that due to it being so severely restricted there, it spoils the whole deal. Because for less money you can get better bikes in nearly every regard for offroad with the only downside that they are not road legal which many are willing to deal with. It puts them into a decision between more power + lower weight + lower price vs road legal. If someone lives super close to offroad terrain or takes the bike in a trailer to the location then being road legal is not a huge factor. KTM, Beta, GasGas and the others have all pretty good options. Well, at least the Honda is road legal. But I really think they didn't try to conquer the EU market. Yes, you can de-strict it by swapping the ECU to US spec, maybe change a few other bits. But then you are not road legal anymore again and might have gotten the same thing from another manufacturer.

[taninthai]

^

people need to forget about this restricted rubbish,it’s not restricted at all.

Here is an pretty good eu country review from an ex racer.

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/honda/crf450l/2019/

 

although looking at that review again it does say 24.6 bhp,but I think they are still confused about it......lol

Edited October 14, 2018 by taninthai

[thaiguzzi]

2 hours ago, taninthai said:

I suppose it possibly could come in at around that price,I believe the crf250l in Thailand is priced around 80,000 bht cheaper than U.K. price.

its true in Europe there is better options for the money ,however as we know Thailand bike market completely different and not many other options if any for this sort of bike.

Just have to wait and see.

Don't forget the 250 has always been made here in Thailand for all world markets, hence it's considerably cheaper price here than in the UK.

 

2 hours ago, Nickymaster said:

around 300-350 would be perfect...

This bike (the 450) is made and exported from Japan to all world markets. Your price above ain't gonna happen. If it's 9.5k GBP in the UK, 11K Euros in Europe and 10k $ in the States, it's gonna be at least that (minimum) here in TB.

Pretty obvious comparing any Honda/Kawasaki made in Japan, sold here and sold abroad in Europe/USA.

Small price discrepancy....

[canthai55]

7 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

 failing Euro 3, let alone the new ridiculous Euro 4 Emission tests........

Don't get me started ...

Read a report in the late 80's - coal fired power plants in USA put more pollution in the air in one day than all the vehicles in N. America do in one year.

Not even talking about the bunker fuel the oil companies are allowed to sell for ships on the worlds oceans

Just another shining example of how the Politicians are in the pocket of Big Oil and sticking it to the masses

[eisfeld]

7 hours ago, taninthai said:

^

people need to forget about this restricted rubbish,it’s not restricted at all.

Here is an pretty good eu country review from an ex racer.

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/honda/crf450l/2019/

 

although looking at that review again it does say 24.6 bhp,but I think they are still confused about it......lol

No it's not a confusion. The bike really comes in EU with 25HP, a reviewer from Austria who's pretty much into offroad confirmed it not only via official specs there but by butt-dyno. I think the also explained a few parts that were changed apart from ECU to do this (exhaust, air intake). He also said in USA the bike has around 40HP.

All the official specs in EU claim 25 while in US I can't find any official numbers.

 

But the reviewer also said he wasn't disappointed at all by the bike and he's OK with the 25HP. He said this will make it ideal for newbies and he was pretty impressed with the forks. His biggest complaint really was at this price you can get lighter and more powerful bikes that just aren't road legal and that at least in Austria that's not a big issue for many offroad riders.

[thaiguzzi]

19 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

But the reviewer also said he wasn't disappointed at all by the bike and he's OK with the 25HP.

And ok with 25 hp, AND 600 hrs top end removal & inspection intervals on an 11k Euro bike with 450cc???

Edited October 14, 2018 by thaiguzzi

[canthai55]

40 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

All the official specs in EU claim 25 while in US I can't find any official numbers.

[eisfeld]

There you go, looks like 40-ish HP in US if it makes just under 39 on that dyno.

 

thaiguzzi yea if you take it as is in EU spec it's really hard to see why one would want that. BTW I didn't see a 600hrs service interval, only oil+filter every 1k km and then big service after 30k km. For strictly offroad I guess it's totally fine, but if people also want to ride quite a bit on roads because well, it's road legal then 1k service intervals would piss me off.

[taninthai]

Show me a reliable link where eu is 25 bhp,until I see a Dino I don’t believe it,,,,,I can’t see how the man reviewer an exracer would have rated a 25 bhp bike that good.

[canthai55]

47 minutes ago, taninthai said:

Show me a reliable link where eu is 25 bhp,

Peak power is 18.4kW, with peak torque of 32Nm

https://www.doble.co.uk/newsitem/41107/crf450l-specification.aspx

[taninthai]

26 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Peak power is 18.4kW, with peak torque of 32Nm

https://www.doble.co.uk/newsitem/41107/crf450l-specification.aspx

That’s not really reliable ,that is just an independent Honda dealer that has copied information from the internet within the last year......lol

i could search the internet and paste the info that claimed the 25 bhp was a mistake made in the marketing stage but again who knows if that reliable....

again have to wait and see

Edited October 15, 2018 by taninthai

[thaiguzzi]

A proper new Big Red

(803cc, 73 bhp, 50 Ib ft torque, will do 100,000 kms with basic servicing),

looks way better and will take most riders to most places they wanna go.

 

 

 

[eisfeld]

5 hours ago, taninthai said:

That’s not really reliable ,that is just an independent Honda dealer that has copied information from the internet within the last year......lol

i could search the internet and paste the info that claimed the 25 bhp was a mistake made in the marketing stage but again who knows if that reliable....

again have to wait and see

 

https://www.honda.de/motorcycles/range/adventure/crf450l/specifications.html

 

Official Honda site. That, plus the austrian reviewer confirming the specs and say which changes have been made to restrict the bike to 25HP and saying that the bike in US makes 40ish HP... I pretty much believe that. The guy rides everything from Beta, GasGas, KTM and what have you brands.

 

Or how about this: http://www.hondaprokevin.com/2019-honda-crf450l-review-specs-motorcycle-dual-sport

 

Quote

Edit / Update: This page has been updated to show the difference in 2019 CRF450L HP numbers between the USA spec model and Euro spec model. I also took a picture of the now released 2019 CRF450L Manufacturer’s Certificate of Origin (MCO), shown below, so that way there’s no question in what the USA spec model number comes in at.

 

• 2019 CRF450L USA spec. Horsepower: 41.7 HP
• 2019 CRF450L Euro spec. Horsepower: 25 HP

 

 

[taninthai]

The 2nd link is from may,the first link yes German Honda site,,,,,,well if it goes to U.K. with 24 bhp I cant see them selling at all when the 250l is half the price......lol........think it’s safe to say Honda have lost the plot if they send it to Europe like that,,,,,,,,,don’t really know what to believe at the Minuit.

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by taninthai

[thaiguzzi]

Just seen EveRide's latest episode on his YouTube Channel. He is one of the larger, better dual sport m/c channels out there if you guys have not heard of him. 100k subscribers etc...

You can guess what this episode is about...........????

[DDBKK]

18 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Just seen EveRide's latest episode on his YouTube Channel. He is one of the larger, better dual sport m/c channels out there if you guys have not heard of him. 100k subscribers etc...

You can guess what this episode is about...........????

If only he had held off posting his opinion/video until he actually rode the ruddy thing.... 

[papa al]

20 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Just seen EveRide's latest episode on his YouTube Channel. He is one of the larger, better dual sport m/c channels out there if you guys have not heard of him. 100k subscribers etc...

You can guess what this episode is about...........????

IpO, EveRide is a complete goomba.

papa has zero subscribers.

 

[thaiguzzi]

4 hours ago, DDBKK said:

If only he had held off posting his opinion/video until he actually rode the ruddy thing.... 

The guy knows more about dual sport bikes and off road trail riding than me.

His main concern/gripe are the ridiculous high maintenance schedules and the price.

As he states, for that money, you can buy a Beta 480 and have change, and the Beta will whoop the Honda's arse in EVERY DEPT.

He was expecting a Honda, ie a Jap bike that will do 50k kms minimum with nothing but 5k kms oil changes and valves looked at every 25k kms. NOT a KTM/Husky with race service intervals which will throw a hissy fit (or a rod..) if the thing is not checked according to specs.

 He has a valid point.

[DDBKK]

54 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

The guy knows more about dual sport bikes and off road trail riding than me.

His main concern/gripe are the ridiculous high maintenance schedules and the price.

As he states, for that money, you can buy a Beta 480 and have change, and the Beta will whoop the Honda's arse in EVERY DEPT.

He was expecting a Honda, ie a Jap bike that will do 50k kms minimum with nothing but 5k kms oil changes and valves looked at every 25k kms. NOT a KTM/Husky with race service intervals which will throw a hissy fit (or a rod..) if the thing is not checked according to specs.

 He has a valid point.

Most of his points being made are moot because he hasn't even see the thing with his own eyes, let alone ridden it. 

 

Servicing isn't imo OTT for an engine that derives from a 450cc moto-x bike. Oil/Filter changes aren't difficult. Not to mention the fact that Honda always leans on the pessimistic side of maintenance schedules anyway. So much fixation on service internals when even KTM exc's (for example) have LOADS of reports online that they can go well over and above their servicing internals without major work - yes, KTM's - those extremely high strung/high maintenance bikes don't actually require valve adjustments or rebuilds when the manual says they will (a lot of the time) because the bike isn't being ridden by a pro racer. So I can only imagine how good the longevity is on the 3 piston ring 450L that they have geared and built the motor for low to mid range tractor grunt rather than red line balls out like the R.

 

The price is the only gripe to have is far as I can see - I do agree, it's not a cheap bike. However, yerman missed something there - brand loyalty. Honda tends to have nailed this pretty well in years gone by and I very much doubt those who have the means to buy this bike will be considering buying a Euro enduro bike as an alternative - it's a different (perceived) market segment. 

 

I would bet large $ on these bikes selling like hot cakes.

[Nickymaster]

 

[thaiguzzi]

Confirmed in MCN.

A Brit motorcycle weekly having recently done a review. Both torque and bhp numbers are in the mid 20's.....

So Europe & the UK get a different spec to the US above.

And a full on top end rebuild at 20,000 miles or 32,000 kms. If correct, pretty pathetic if you ask me.

[taninthai]

24 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

Confirmed in MCN.

A Brit motorcycle weekly having recently done a review. Both torque and bhp numbers are in the mid 20's.....

So Europe & the UK get a different spec to the US above.

And a full on top end rebuild at 20,000 miles or 32,000 kms. If correct, pretty pathetic if you ask me.

The problem with mcn and other magazine reviews is they are testing and reviewing many bikes per month plus rushing to meet deadlines to get to print,I have seen many errors in many off theses publications where they really just searched the net and taking info from various sources.

im not saying EURO versions are not restricted and will notbe buying this Bike either way ,but until I see a Dyno run from a EURO version or a proper release from honda I remain of the opinion that not one really knows what power the EURO version comes with.

[eisfeld]

3 hours ago, taninthai said:

The problem with mcn and other magazine reviews is they are testing and reviewing many bikes per month plus rushing to meet deadlines to get to print,I have seen many errors in many off theses publications where they really just searched the net and taking info from various sources.

im not saying EURO versions are not restricted and will notbe buying this Bike either way ,but until I see a Dyno run from a EURO version or a proper release from honda I remain of the opinion that not one really knows what power the EURO version comes with.

European official Honda sites all state 25HP, all EU reviewers who have ridden the bike speak about the 25HP number versus the US spec. At some point you'll have to accept it as fact, as painful as it may be ????

[taninthai]

25 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

European official Honda sites all state 25HP, all EU reviewers who have ridden the bike speak about the 25HP number versus the US spec. At some point you'll have to accept it as fact, as painful as it may be ????

Nothings painful for me as said  I am not buying this bike,Honda has said it doesn’t release hp figures ,,,,you have another site that claims one European site made a mistake with the figure,,,,,so again who knows what the story is with it.

im not saying it is 25 bhp or saying it is 40 bhp I’m just waiting for some proper confirmation ,rather than believing various conflicting reports from the internet????

 

p.s I cant even find the bike on uk Honda site......lol

Edited October 26, 2018 by taninthai