Danish parliament bans the wearing of face veils in public

[webfact]

Danish parliament bans the wearing of face veils in public

By Emil Gjerding Nielson and Teis Jensen

 

Women in niqab are pictured after the Danish Parliament banned the wearing of face veils in public, at Christiansborg Palace in Copenhagen, Denmark, May 31, 2018. Ritzau Scanpix/Mads Claus Rasmussen/via REUTERS

 

COPENHAGEN (Reuters) - Denmark has banned the wearing of face veils in public, joining France and other European countries in outlawing the burqa and the niqab worn by some Muslim women to uphold what some politicians say are secular and democratic values.

 

Parliament voted on Thursday for the ban proposed by the centre-right government, which says veils are contrary to Danish values. Opponents say the ban, which will take effect on Aug. 1, infringes women's right to dress as they choose.

 

Under the law, police can instruct women to remove their veils or order them to leave public areas. Justice Minister Soren Pape Poulsen has said that officers would in practice fine them and tell them "to go home".

 

Fines would range from 1,000 Danish crowns ($160) for a first offence to 10,000 crowns for a fourth violation.

 

France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Bulgaria and the German state of Bavaria have all imposed some restrictions on full-face veils in public places.

 

Denmark has struggled for decades with how to integrate non-Western immigrants into its welfare state. Public debate intensified in 2015 with the arrival of large groups of refugees from conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere.

 

The anti-immigrant Danish People's Party became the second-largest party in an election that year and now supports the coalition government in parliament.

 

Zainab Ibn Hssain, who lives in Copenhagen and has been wearing the niqab for the last year, told Reuters: "It's not nice. It will mean that I won't be able to go to school, go to work or go out with my family."

 

"But I won't take my niqab off so I have to find another solution," the 20-year-old added.

 

Pape Poulsen, who leads the conservative party in the coalition, has described keeping one's face hidden in public as "incompatible with the values of Danish society or respect for the community".

 

Ibn Hssain rejected suggestions that wearing the veil symbolised the rejection of Danish values or oppression of women. "It has nothing to do with integration or that we're oppressed. For me it is a war on Islam," she said.

 

Human rights group Amnesty International called the ban "a discriminatory violation of women's rights ... All women should be free to dress as they please and to wear clothing that expresses their identity or beliefs".

 

Ibn Hssain, who says she has been yelled at and spat at in public for wearing the niqab, will stay for now in Denmarkdespite the ban." If I leave Denmark the politicians win. I feel what they deep down want is for Muslims to leave Denmark," she said.

 

(Editing by Jacob Gronholt-Pedersen, Robin Pomeroy and David Stamp)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-06-01

[ezzra]

A day late and a dollar short, however still, here is a country brave enough to stand up to this unbecoming tradition that goes against the social fibers of just about any country on earth to wear this costumes that belongs to the dark ages...

 

 

[Get Real]

Great!

[Grouse]

Well done Denmark. Such a civilised country!

[Hayduke]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Opponents say the ban, which will take effect on Aug. 1, infringes women's right to dress as they choose.

Clearly not an unfair precedent. Certainly woman clad only in underwear (dressing has they choose) or women wearing Nazi uniforms (dressing as they choose) would be subject to similar sanctions. If people want to dress 'as they choose' then they should opt to live where they are able to do so. If you choose to live in a  society that dictates appropriate dress then you have two choices. Live with it or move elsewhere.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Hayduke

[GOLDBUGGY]

Well, if she can't go to school now, or to work, or out with the family anymore then the solution is quite simple actully. 

 

Go Home!

 

I mean it is obvious she can't fit or live in the society she chose to move to. So the only solution is to move back to the one she can live in. That is if her Father and Brother allow her to do this that is. 

[Wilsonandson]

Ibn Hssain rejected suggestions that wearing the veil symbolized the rejection of Danish values or oppression of women. “It has nothing to do with integration or that we’re oppressed. For me it is a war on Islam,” she said.

Islam the religion of peace.

[dick dasterdly]

26 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Well, if she can't go to school now, or to work, or out with the family anymore then the solution is quite simple actully. 

 

Go Home!

 

I mean it is obvious she can't fit or live in the society she chose to move to. So the only solution is to move back to the one she can live in. That is if her Father and Brother allow her to do this that is. 

I'd add another option:-

 

Dress appropriately for the country in which you're living, so that you can go out to school or work.

 

Sadly, the female members would possibly have to give up going out as a family ☹️, but that decision is down to her and the family.

[cornishcarlos]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Human rights group Amnesty International called the ban "a discriminatory violation of women's rights ... All women should be free to dress as they please and to wear clothing that expresses their identity or beliefs".

 

I wonder if Amnesty International would be so defensive of a Western female, wearing a bikini in downtown Tehran ?? I'm guessing probably not !!

Blend in, adapt, conform to local cultures or don't go there.

You don't see me walking around the Grand Palace in my mankini ?

[CharlesSwann]

"I feel what they deep down want is for Muslims to leave Denmark," she said.

 

And she doesn't take the hint? I wouldn't live in a country where I was made to feel unwelcome. Immigrants are brash and competitive by nature. The immodesty of economic-hypergamy is a big part of the culture clash. I'm still waiting for an immigrant to express a sense of guilt that they appropriated someone else's country. They never do. They only see their own sense of entitlement.

 

This burqa issue is a drop in the ocean and comes too late. Europeans have already been culturally disinherited.

[klauskunkel]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

For me it is a war on Islam," she said.

It's a decision by your host country aimed at protecting its citizens, residents and visitors from terrorists, that protection includes you. But you take it as a declaration of war against your religion, that means in your mind you are a militant already, since you can't accept any other rationale. It's a ruling against a piece of cloth, not against Islam. It's a ban issued by a democratically elected government that went through a parliamentary process. If some mullah issues a fatwa, you would obey. If your host country issues a law, you cry war.

[RichardColeman]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Human rights group Amnesty International called the ban "a discriminatory violation of women's rights ... All women should be free to dress as they please and to wear clothing that expresses their identity or beliefs".

Yes, and I should have the right when out with my family to be able to see whom I walk among and if they are wanted terrorists or individuals !!! Or indeed if they are actually women !!

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Ibn Hssain rejected suggestions that wearing the veil symbolised the rejection of Danish values or oppression of women. "It has nothing to do with integration or that we're oppressed. For me it is a war on Islam," she said.

 

Full face veils are nothing to do with Islam. They don't wear them in Indonesia or Malaysia.

The biggest con perpetrated about the dress issue is that there is such a thing as "Islamic" dress when it's actually "cultural" dress.

Ibn Hssain, IMO, is either ignorant about the issue, has been badly advised, or is deliberately promulgating a falsehood.

Whatever, when she decided to live in a western society it is up to her to conform to that society's norms, or go somewhere she can live according to her desires. Seems she and her ilk think western societies should conform to their desires. 

I'm sure she would find Afghanistan very accommodating to her beliefs.

[thaibeachlovers]

54 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'd add another option:-

 

Dress appropriately for the country in which you're living, so that you can go out to school or work.

 

Sadly, the female members would possibly have to give up going out as a family ☹️, but that decision is down to her and the family.

There is nothing in the Koran that mandates a full face veil, and there is permission to do whatever is necessary.

This is an entirely manufactured issue that has nothing to do with "Islam". It is entirely down to "the family" and their erroneous beliefs.

[thaibeachlovers]

58 minutes ago, Wilsonandson said:

 

Islam the religion of peace.

 

This issue is nothing to do with Islam. It is entirely about culture.

[lemonjelly]

Whilst women in Saudi Arabia are fighting for the right to be able to walk the streets hijab and burka free. The burka has no, or shouldn’t have a place in modern society and is an import from the tribal areas of the Muslim culture. 

[Aj Mick]

Veils are entirely appropriate for riding a camel across the desert, for protection from sun, wind and sand..... as such they became part of the culture of lands in desert areas.

 

Faces are fundamental to recognising and communication amongst people. As such, although culturally other parts of the body are covered, faces are on customarily on display throughout most of the world. People who do not show their face are perceived as those who want their identity known, typically for some nefarious reason, thus they are not trusted.

 

Veils are not a requirement of the Muslim religion, though they are customary among some ethnic groups who practice the religion. However, moderate Muslims of most sects across the world are adaptable. They can and do fit into the cultural practices of countries and societies where they choose to live. To insist that they they have to be veiled for religious reasons, or as an assertion of their rights is wrong, and contrary to the norm in most countries. They should adapt. Denmark is within its rights to legislate that they remove their veil and do so.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Aj Mick

[vogie]

Muslim women liberated from ISIS are only too happy to remove their face veils, maybe it says a lot about our all too PC society.

 

[malagateddy]

When in Rome..do and dress like the Romans do [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Nurseynutcase]

Well done Denmark!!!!!

 

I do wish the Uk would follow other countries in banning this vile piece of so called clothing.

 

As a previous poster said - walking past someone covered head to foot in black you have no idea if it is a male or female.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, car720 said:

At least the Vikings have still got goolies.  

 

Them horned helmets would have been banned on cruelty to animals grounds or some such.

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

14 minutes ago, Nurseynutcase said:

Well done Denmark!!!!!

 

I do wish the Uk would follow other countries in banning this vile piece of so called clothing.

 

As a previous poster said - walking past someone covered head to foot in black you have no idea if it is a male or female.

"I do wish the Uk would follow other countries in banning this vile piece of so called clothing."

 

Agree entirely.

 

It's up to immigrants whether or not they are prepared to dress according to the country's 'norms'.

 

If not, then it's time to go back home.

Edited June 1, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, malagateddy said:

When in Rome..do and dress like the Romans do

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Exactly.  Living in Thailand I realise that dressing appropriately results in them not disliking me!

 

It's really not that hard....

 

 

[blazes]

I imagine eating a Danish pastry would be difficult while wearing a niqab?

[Aj Mick]

3 minutes ago, blazes said:

I imagine eating a Danish pastry would be difficult while wearing a niqab?

More than once I have seen young couples, with the woman wearing a naqib, eating at some fast food joint....... Looks weird, awkward, impractical, and just wrong.

 

Back in the time and place from whence the veiling custom comes, womenfolk ate at home in the harem, not in a mall. Times have changed.

[dick dasterdly]

With a bit of luck, those supporting the niqab will be along soon to explain to us why this should be allowed in Western countries.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

2 hours ago, malagateddy said:

When in Rome..do and dress like the Romans do

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Yes. Have a good old Roman orgy.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

I don’t get it what’s the purpose? It should only be banned for security reasons in public buildings like airports or banks or stores (private property management decision.

[mikosan]

1 hour ago, Nurseynutcase said:

Well done Denmark!!!!!

 

I do wish the Uk would follow other countries in banning this vile piece of so called clothing.

 

As a previous poster said - walking past someone covered head to foot in black you have no idea if it is a male or female.

And Australia and I absolutely agree, but sadly there is little or no chance of it occurring.   We have gone beyond the tipping point in both countries and are on the slippery slope to islamisation.

[observer90210]

Brave Danish politicians !....but somehow,  I would not feel safe now in downtown centre walking areas of Copehnagen, with all the fanatism this will create.