Am I in breach of immigration rules if Im painting my commercial building?

[ghworker2010]

I am on an ext of stay based on marriage and I want to paint a commercial building that I have rented. We signed a 10 yr lease in my name and the wifes. Its registered and we paid the tax. 

 

Surely Im ok to paint out there by myself. Theres a lot of traffic going by. Am I breaking any rules? Obviously I’m not getting paid.

 

Thanks

Edited June 7, 2018 by ghworker2010

[richard_smith237]

I'm sure you are going to get a load of the usual replies from the usual suspects of 'no, you would be taking a job away from a Thai and therefore need a WP'...

 

I think technically it could be considered 'work'...  However, realistically, is anyone going to report you and are the Police going to be interested in someone painting their own (rented) property? I very much doubt it. 

 

In your shoes, if I wanted to paint myself I'd just get one with it. 

[FritsSikkink]

Surely you are not allowed to paint a commercial building as it is work for which you don't have a work permit. 

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

Surely you are not allowed to paint a commercial building as it is work for which you don't have a work permit. 

I'm tempted to agree with this. If it were your home it wouldn't be an issue but a commercial building ...

 

Labour is cheap here, hire a couple of locals and supervise them closely.

[Khun Jean]

technically it is 'exerting energy' that needs a work permit. So the next time you pick your nose, make sure you have a work permit.

The definition is so broad that it catches everything. Mowing your lawn, washing your car, installing a new light bulb etc.

It is up to the officer to make that decision but technically any 'exertion of energy' is considered work that needs a work permit.

It is ridiculous and that is why it is not really enforced for someone who is painting their own house etc.

If an angry neighbor (or even worse a competitor) however wants to make problems for you then it can become a real problem.

 

I have painted many houses and walls. I get my kids and wife to help me. The work gets done faster and it is then not only you working which can be seen as real work.

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Khun Jean

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, ghworker2010 said:

Surely Im ok to paint out there by myself.

Yeah your OK if no-one complains I paint and maintain our home if you rent it just check with your landlord.

[grollies]

2 hours ago, Khun Jean said:

technically it is 'exerting energy' that needs a work permit. So the next time you pick your nose, make sure you have a work permit.

The definition is so broad that it catches everything. Mowing your lawn, washing your car, installing a new light bulb etc.

It is up to the officer to make that decision but technically any 'exertion of energy' is considered work that needs a work permit.

It is ridiculous and that is why it is not really enforced for someone who is painting their own house etc.

If an angry neighbor (or even worse a competitor) however wants to make problems for you then it can become a real problem.

 

I have painted many houses and walls. I get my kids and wife to help me. The work gets done faster and it is then not only you working which can be seen as real work.

 

I had a dump this morning and I 'exerted energy'. I don't think I need a WP for this though Jean.

 

''Mowing your lawn, washing your car, installing a new light bulb etc.'' -sorry, rubbish.

[gjoo888]

14 hours ago, Crossy said:

I'm tempted to agree with this. If it were your home it wouldn't be an issue but a commercial building ...

 

Labour is cheap here, hire a couple of locals and supervise them closely.

We had the exterior of our 3-story townhouse painted for 4,000 Baht, excluding the paint and materials. They did a very acceptable job too. Just like most labor intensive jobs here, I can't see any reason to get dirty and sweaty doing it yourself for what it costs to have it done.

Edited June 8, 2018 by gjoo888

[Damrongsak]

11 hours ago, grollies said:

I had a dump this morning and I 'exerted energy'. I don't think I need a WP for this though Jean. ...

You just need a WC.  But if you exert a lot of energy and blow a gasket, do call a plumber or doctor. 

[ross163103]

Definition of work:

mental or physical activity as a means of earning income; employment.

 

"Earning income"--which you are not, is the key phrase here. Although saying that, this is Thailand, if a Thai neighbor doesn't like you they could report you and immigration could make your life miserable. I knew a restaurant owner that ran into this type issue even though he had a valid work permit. He was always getting "random" visits from immigration that wasted his time and subsequently loss of income because they made him come down to the immigration office to prove he had a valid visa. Personally I wouldn't worry about it since you're not being paid, but that's just my opinion.

[jackdd]

9 minutes ago, ross163103 said:

Definition of work:

mental or physical activity as a means of earning income; employment.

 

"Earning income"--which you are not, is the key phrase here.

In which Thai law did you find this definition?

[flyingtlger]

16 hours ago, ghworker2010 said:

Am I breaking any rules?

Rules are made to be broken.....but be prepared to face the consequences.

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, jackdd said:

In which Thai law did you find this definition?

Indeed. Income is irrelevant in the Thai law. Which is why the tsunami volunteers (and anyone else doing voluntary work) were told they had to have Work Permits.

[cornishcarlos]

15 hours ago, Khun Jean said:

technically it is 'exerting energy' that needs a work permit

 

I've seen Thais paint, build, plumb etc without exerting any energy, so if he paints Thai style, he shouldn't require a work permit !!!

[Jasonron]

That is absolutely fine.. you aren’t painting someone else’s house.. it’s registered in your name now.. I do all my lawn work, wash car regularly, paint house when it is soiled by birds and even some electric work.. I never had any problems... I don’t think honestly anyone would report you for that ... you can’t do any work in a commercial area like market or public place for earning money.. 

[Suradit69]

22 minutes ago, ross163103 said:

 

"Earning income"--which you are not, is the key phrase here

No, income is neither a necessary part of the definition of work nor is it a determining issue as far as Thai labor/immigration rules are concerned.

[cracker1]

You will definitely be in trouble with Immigration Police if you are caught WORKING.

[FritsSikkink]

57 minutes ago, ross163103 said:

Definition of work:

mental or physical activity as a means of earning income; employment.

 

"Earning income"--which you are not, is the key phrase here. Although saying that, this is Thailand, if a Thai neighbor doesn't like you they could report you and immigration could make your life miserable. I knew a restaurant owner that ran into this type issue even though he had a valid work permit. He was always getting "random" visits from immigration that wasted his time and subsequently loss of income because they made him come down to the immigration office to prove he had a valid visa. Personally I wouldn't worry about it since you're not being paid, but that's just my opinion.

Nonsense quote, you need a work permit for voluntary work in Thailand.

[Khun Jean]

13 hours ago, grollies said:

I had a dump this morning and I 'exerted energy'. I don't think I need a WP for this though Jean.

 

''Mowing your lawn, washing your car, installing a new light bulb etc.'' -sorry, rubbish.

Here you go:

 

According to Thai labor law, the definition of work is "exerting effort" and "employing knowledge", "whether or not for wages or other benefits", and is based on the individual, not employment as in some other countries. This is typical of Thai law -- remaining vague, and leaving flexible judgement to officials, thereby eliminating legal loopholes and haggling.

 

The flexible judgement can change your 'installing a new light bulb' into renovating the house without a workpermit. The chance that it happens is very very small, but get some Thais upset (neighbor/competitor) and this law can be used to get you.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Khun Jean

[FritsSikkink]

44 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

I've seen Thais paint, build, plumb etc without exerting any energy, so if he paints Thai style, he shouldn't require a work permit !!!

Let's talk <deleted> about the Thai's again, do you feel better now?

[cornishcarlos]

1 minute ago, FritsSikkink said:

Let's talk <deleted> about the Thai's again, do you feel better now?

 

No, I don't feel better, because I have to go round and finish off all the stuff they miss or <deleted>> up... 

Do I need a work permit for that ??

[FritsSikkink]

2 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

No, I don't feel better, because I have to go round and finish off all the stuff they miss or <deleted>> up... 

Do I need a work permit for that ??

No, better management skills 

[Khun Jean]

Best management is to not hire unskilled people to do a job. There are almost no skilled people available in Thailand. The good ones are so busy and you will not even be able to hire them. So you end up with the unskilled people and lousy results.

 

[jasonsamui55]

If I jerk off and service myself, expending both effort and knowledge, but do not receive payment, is this “work” and is it a violation? It surely is stealing a job from a local Thai ?

[Khun Jean]

Typical for TVF. It gets ridiculous very quickly.

Nothing better to do with your life? (Don't answer, it was a rhetorical question).

 

[PerkinsCuthbert]

1 hour ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

I've seen Thais paint, build, plumb etc without exerting any energy, so if he paints Thai style, he shouldn't require a work permit !!!

Indeed; Thais are one of the few peoples in this world who are able to fall asleep while climbing a ladder, changing a fuse or burgling a home. Expenditure of energy, were it possible to measure at such a rate, would be in the nano-joules per millennium range.

[cornishcarlos]

4 minutes ago, Khun Jean said:

Typical for TVF. It gets ridiculous very quickly.

Nothing better to do with your life? (Don't answer, it was a rhetorical question).

 

 

A ridiculous contribution is better than no contribution, that's how forums survive....

But you are still on here, so obviously nothing better to do either, so might as well make a proper contribution !!!

[transam]

Are you involved with the business other than being a guarantor for the rent...?

[jvs]

34 minutes ago, Khun Jean said:

Here you go:

 

According to Thai labor law, the definition of work is "exerting effort" and "employing knowledge", "whether or not for wages or other benefits", and is based on the individual, not employment as in some other countries. This is typical of Thai law -- remaining vague, and leaving flexible judgement to officials, thereby eliminating legal loopholes and haggling.

 

The flexible judgement can change your 'installing a new light bulb' into renovating the house without a workpermit. The chance that it happens is very very small, but get some Thais upset (neighbor/competitor) and this law can be used to get you.

You are quoting some ones opinion and you can not believe everything

you find on the internet.

[ezzra]

1 hour ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

I've seen Thais paint, build, plumb etc without exerting any energy, so if he paints Thai style, he shouldn't require a work permit !!!

Most of the people i got to do home renovation are nothing but an matures and  a wannabe tradies at times causing more damage s than the actual repairs, and in my opinion they themselves needs a license to do works on anybody property...