White House press secretary says asked to leave restaurant for working for Trump

[attrayant]

44 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Pegman said intolerance of intolerance is a virtue. I said intolerance of ideas in never a virtue. Which is to say, we must allow people to have their ideas and the freedom to express them.

 

And if we're being logically consistent, the freedom to ridicule and deride them.  In other words, to be intolerant of them.  

 

44 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Banning free speech and expression is fascist.

 

Which has nothing to do with what we're discussing, but since you brought it up: Donald Trump's Dictatorial Approach to Free Speech

 

"President-elect Donald Trump demonstrated his authoritarian impulses once again on Tuesday with a call for the criminalization of dissent. In the early morning, he took to Twitter [...] to proclaim that burning a U.S. flag should be punished by 'perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail'."

 

 

44 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Being intolerant of free expression is intolerance. People with unhealthy and dangerous ideas are best sorted out through the function of unobstructed debate.

 

What if debate itself is suppressed?  Would you tolerate that?

 

I find it hard to believe that somebody who espouses some reprehensible idea, let's say eugenics as an example, is going to have a sudden change of heart after a debate.

[canuckamuck]

2 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

What if debate itself is suppressed?  Would you tolerate that?

 

I find it hard to believe that somebody who espouses some reprehensible idea, let's say eugenics as an example, is going to have a sudden change of heart after a debate.

Tolerating someone's actions are different than tolerating their ideas. Banning debate is an action.

The eugenics guy can be shown to be reprehensible by openly debating his position. It is OK if for him to be wrong, but not OK for him to break the law by acting on his reprehensible idea.

 

[Andaman Al]

20 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

The previous POTUS was attacked for his lack of accomplishment and his socialist programs. In other words he was attacked for his policy.

Might that be anything to do with Mitch McConnell promising on day 1 of Obama's Presidency that the Republican  party would use the filibuster (and they did) on any bit of legislation Obama tried to pass. What the Republicans did was a crime against the US people and a crime against the democracy which you all seem to be holding so dear now. To listen to the Trumpites complaining that Democrats will not co-operate. It is like listening to the analogy of the Jews from earlier in this thread complaining about having to serve Nazi's. They would have a point to refuse service and the Dems can not be blamed if they never co-operate with Republicans again. Look at the last SCOTUS seat, the Republicans REFUSED to even have a hearing under Obama and now claim it is a major achievement they elected someone to SCOTUS. What is the achievement exactly? You could not have go that without Democratic co-operation could you?

 

It is astonishing that we have to endure crap like you post. You are an educated person. You KNOW that Republicans obstructed Obama, you know that! So why come out with the crap above? Why can you not come out with an educated informed opinion? It's all BS. I am not American (neither are you), I have no dog in the fight but I know a dangerous person when I see them and Trump is dangerous. If US policy did not affect my family then the US would be welcome to build a wall all the way around and never let us hear their name again ( i would even start the crowd fund page for the wall myself), but until then whatever side you support surely you can do so by being honest and balanced - an effort for Trump supporters I acknowledge.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Tolerating someone's actions are different than tolerating their ideas. Banning debate is an action.

The eugenics guy can be shown to be reprehensible by openly debating his position. It is OK if for him to be wrong, but not OK for him to break the law by acting on his reprehensible idea.

 

What debate has been banned?

[Jingthing]

I have mixed feeling about this.

Sanders is an evil serial liar that lies every day for her evil serial liar boss, our disgusting troll president. 

But refusing her service just serves the "trump" propaganda agenda.

They can paint themselves as righteous victims.

They are anything but.

They are evil and destructive, and all decent Americans need to work very hard to check their power as soon as possible (the midterms).

So I think they should have served her but giving her bad service in a passive aggressive way.

Don't even acknowledge that they know who she is.

If she says to get special service, say, sorry I don't follow politics. 

Very slow service. 

Serve people that came later before her table.

If accused, feign shock and innocence.

Cook the food in a way that it's not bad enough to send back but not good enough to encourage a repeat visit.

Pad the bill in cheeky ways.

What's she going to do then? Give a bad yelp review is all if that. She'd never be able to prove it was about her being evil. Tell the other "trump" cult members not to go there. Good! 

BTW -- Red Hen is a higher end gourmet restaurant, not a greasy chicken joint. 

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Jingthing

[canuckamuck]

2 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

 

 

It is astonishing that we have to endure crap like you post. 

Do you only want to hear from people you agree with. How very progressive of you.

[canuckamuck]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What debate has been banned?

The poster was suggesting some opinions should not be allowed to be heard. Please try to keep up.

 

[Andaman Al]

1 minute ago, canuckamuck said:

Do you only want to hear from people you agree with. How very progressive of you.

No, I want to hear from people that disagree but state facts and have the ability to know that when debating an idea or concept you can't conveniently miss out all the bits that make your argument sterile. People that don't give us crap like "Obama was attacked because he didn't achieve anything", when the same person posting it KNOWS that the Republicans obstructed Obama's policy from day 1. If Obama would have tried to pass a bill saying the sun was yellow the Republicans would have filibustered it. The Republicans will rue the day they got rid of the filibuster when they lose control of the house.

 

So if you can debate with even a modicum of integrity then lets go at it, otherwise try and engage some other mug.

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, stevenl said:

Trump has divided the country.

 

It takes two to tango. Those who react like this, hounding people are dividing the country and showing their contempt for the electorate by only wanting to respect decisions they like.

 

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

It takes two to tango. Those who react like this, hounding people are dividing the country and showing their contempt for the electorate by only wanting to respect decisions they like.

 

 

"trump" and his supporters, and active Quislings like Sanders don't deserve any respect. He won with a minority of votes and a normal new president like that would actively seek to include all Americans, including those that didn't vote for him. "trump" has done the exact opposite in very vulgar and aggressive ways. It's only about his hard core white nationalist base. Yes, all other American have no good choice but to resist this evil until it can be removed. Sorry, that's the reality. There is no compromise with such a level of evil. History teaches us that. 

[Baerboxer]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I have mixed feeling about this.

Sanders is an evil serial liar that lies every day for her evil serial liar boss, our disgusting troll president. 

But refusing her service just serves the "trump" propaganda agenda.

They can paint themselves as righteous victims.

They are anything but.

They are evil and destructive, and all decent Americans need to work very hard to check their power as soon as possible (the midterms).

So I think they should have served her but giving her bad service in a passive aggressive way.

Don't even acknowledge that they know who she is.

If she says to get special service, say, sorry I don't follow politics. 

Very slow service. 

Serve people that came later before her table.

If accused, feign shock and innocence.

Cook the food in a way that it's not bad enough to send back but not good enough to encourage a repeat visit.

Pad the bill in cheeky ways.

What's she going to do then? Give a bad yelp review is all if that. She'd never be able to prove it was about her being evil. Tell the other "trump" cult members not to go there. Good! 

BTW -- Red Hen is a higher end gourmet restaurant, not a greasy chicken joint. 

 

 

You mean as opposed to Honest Hilary and all the totally always honest democrats and their press aides?

 

Yes, treat people who don't support your views or have different opinions badly. Hound them out of restaurants, overcharge them, or give them poorly cooked meals and service.

 

Yeah for democrat democracy! Only our side deserve to be voted for, allowed to speak and allowed to have opinions.

[Jingthing]

She is not a victim here.

She lies daily for the most powerful "man" in the world.

 

[canuckamuck]

7 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

No, I want to hear from people that disagree but state facts and have the ability to know that when debating an idea or concept you can't conveniently miss out all the bits that make your argument sterile. People that don't give us crap like "Obama was attacked because he didn't achieve anything", when the same person posting it KNOWS that the Republicans obstructed Obama's policy from day 1. If Obama would have tried to pass a bill saying the sun was yellow the Republicans would have filibustered it. The Republicans will rue the day they got rid of the filibuster when they lose control of the house.

 

So if you can debate with even a modicum of integrity then lets go at it, otherwise try and engage some other mug.

Honestly I think how politics is done in the USA is complete Looney Tunes. I admire Trump for getting anything done at all in those circumstances.

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

"trump" and his supporters, and active Quislings like Sanders don't deserve any respect. He won with a minority of votes and a normal new president like that would actively seek to include all Americans, including those that didn't vote for him. "trump" has done the exact opposite in very vulgar and aggressive ways. It's only about his hard core white nationalist base. Yes, all other American have no good choice but to resist this evil until it can be removed. Sorry, that's the reality. There is no compromise with such a level of evil. History teaches us that. 

 

Quite frankly, neither does Clinton deserve any respect. Or much of the American Justice system by the look of it.

 

Your comments about "white nationalist" show the usual run to "fascist, racist, labeling for different views. Clinton was supported by black power groups, do you oppose them too? 

 

As a non American, with many American friends, I'd be worried about the whole cesspit of American politics and justice rather than blame one new comer if I were you.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Baerboxer

[Jingthing]

This action (though I think they should have served her as I've suggested) is not about any kind of discrimination against an entire class of people, such as based or race or sexual orientation. It's not even about discrimination against all "trump" supporters. It's about a specific incredibly VILE individual -- Sarah Sanders.

There are a number of such individuals that are going to be a problem for some restaurants to serve.

Such as O.J. Simpson (yes we all know he's a murderer).

Bill Cosby. 

Bernie Madoff before he was jailed, after we knew what he did.

Such notorious characters should understand they are going to have some issues when going out in public.

Cheers. 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Quite frankly, neither does Clinton deserve any respect. Or much of the American Justice system by the look of it.

 

Your comments about "white nationalist" show the usual run to "fascist, racist, labeling for different views. Clinton was supported by black power groups, do you oppose them too? 

 

As a non American, with many American friends, I'd be worried about the whole cesspit of American politics and justice rather than blame one new comer if I were you.

As a non-American that you are, I think you just don't get it. The reason "trump" won in the first place is that he played on racism of white people. That is a fact. 

[Baerboxer]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

She is not a victim here.

She lies daily for the most powerful "man" in the world.

 

 

Would you say the same if someone refused to serve a democrat because they didn't like their lies?

[Baerboxer]

Just now, Jingthing said:

As a non-American that you are, I think you just don't get it. The reason "trump" won in the first place is that he played on racism of white people. That is a fact. 

 

So are you saying you don't think white people should be allowed to vote?

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Honestly I think how politics is done in the USA is complete Looney Tunes. I admire Trump for getting anything done at all in those circumstances.

He has actually gotten very little done that is productive. Lots of destructive actions though. He's good at breaking things though. 

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

It takes two to tango. Those who react like this, hounding people are dividing the country and showing their contempt for the electorate by only wanting to respect decisions they like.

 

 

 

The owner and staff made a decision to protest against the Administration, an action I assume is legal in the US. Subsequently the restaurant has been bombarded by false reviews and reservations by Trump supporters.

 

IMO it is unacceptable for a high profile member of government to utilise their government social media account to denigrate a member of the public for a  legal protest action. Unfortunately abuse of power has become the norm with the Trump Administration, including the President, along with many other travesties of decency and justice.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Would you say the same if someone refused to serve a democrat because they didn't like their lies?

Stop your sleazy tactics. I never said that about republicans in general so I won't further dignify your TROLL BAIT post. 

[stevenl]

15 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

It takes two to tango. Those who react like this, hounding people are dividing the country and showing their contempt for the electorate by only wanting to respect decisions they like.

 

 

To a certain extend, yes.

 

But the difference is Trump should be president for all Americans, the owner of the Red Hen is not.

[Jingthing]

It would be illegal in some jurisdictions to discriminate against a class of people based on race, etc. But this action was about one specific vile individual. I'm not aware of that being illegal in any U.S. jurisdiction. That said, I wish they had served her, because it just gives "trump" propagandists B.S. ammunition to paint themselves as victims.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Jingthing

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This action (though I think they should have served her as I've suggested) is not about any kind of discrimination against an entire class of people, such as based or race or sexual orientation. It's not even about discrimination against all "trump" supporters. It's about a specific incredibly VILE individual -- Sarah Sanders.

There are a number of such individuals that are going to be a problem for some restaurants to serve.

Such as O.J. Simpson (yes we all know he's a murderer).

Bill Cosby. 

Bernie Madoff before he was jailed, after we knew what he did.

Such notorious characters should understand they are going to have some issues when going out in public.

Cheers. 

 

Gawd help us! 

 

"It's all ok as long as me and my mates get to choose whose a bad, vile, person and shouldn't be served. Of course, we should be served anywhere because we're lovely, never lie and vote for the right people!"

 

Isn't that feeding prejudice and discrimination? 

[Voodoochile]

In my opinion the owner of any buisness should have the right to not serve any costomer they want for any reason they want. At their own professional risk of course.

 

why not???

[attrayant]

21 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

The poster was suggesting some opinions should not be allowed to be heard. Please try to keep up.

 

No no, that's not what I said.  You brought it up as a non-sequitur.  In response, I quoted TRUMP as saying that some people who express themselves should be jailed or exiled.

 

I said that such ideas and opinions should be loudly, vocally derided and ridiculed.  That's how we show intolerance to deplorable ideas.

[Jingthing]

 

1 minute ago, Voodoochile said:

In my opinion the owner of any buisness should have the right to not serve any costomer they want for any reason they want. At their own professional risk of course.

 

why not???

Because if a business is open to the public, it should be available to the public unless there is a specific reason not to serve a specific person. For example, not OK to not serve black people, but OK to not serve a black person named Jack Jones because he threw food around the restaurant before.

As I've said, I think they should have served her but in a way that would not encourage her to return. 

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Gawd help us! 

 

"It's all ok as long as me and my mates get to choose whose a bad, vile, person and shouldn't be served. Of course, we should be served anywhere because we're lovely, never lie and vote for the right people!"

 

Isn't that feeding prejudice and discrimination? 

Your baiting question has nothing to do with this incident or what I've said about it. Don't bother me again with your games or bother someone else that doesn't see what you're doing. I said they should have served her. 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Jingthing

[Baerboxer]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Stop your sleazy tactics. I never said that about republicans in general so I won't further dignify your TROLL BAIT post. 

 

I'm not trolling. 

 

If my sentence construction was such that you think that I was then I unreservedly apologize.

 

The point I was trying to make was that any form of prejudice can grown into discrimination. Can lead to sectarianism and can have dreadful consequences.

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I'm not trolling. 

 

If my sentence construction was such that you think that I was then I unreservedly apologize.

 

The point I was trying to make was that any form of prejudice can grown into discrimination. Can lead to sectarianism and can have dreadful consequences.

 

 

 

 

You seem blissfully naive about the how evil the "trump" regime has acted. I can't take you seriously or anyone that promotes B.S. that "trump" is just another bad president, that there is any kind of equivalence of the evil and volume of GASLIGHTNING to Clinton or any other modern president (yes he's even worse than Nixon). So bother someone else. We're not on the same page. I have nothing to say to people that try to normalize what "trump" represents. 

 

I've watched several Sanders fake press conferences. It's all lies. She answers nothing. She personally abuses the press. She is the face of American fascism behind her boss. Yes, she is totally despicable. I understand completely why decent Americans would not want to politely serve such a villain. (But again, I think they should have served her anyway.)

Edited June 24, 2018 by Jingthing