Trump says illegal immigrants should be deported with 'no judges or court cases'

[pegman]

5 minutes ago, garyk said:

Not only did the agents tell me the illegal crossing are down drastically.

There was a guy that operated one of the huge balloons they fly in the area. He said the same thing.

I believe them.

Well these guys, Trump's gov,  say that's not so in their area.

 

Southwest Border Migration FY2018

During the month of May, CBP saw a slight 1.9 percent increase overall when compared to April, but a 160 percent increase compared to May 2017.

The number of Family Units increased by 435 percent and the number of unaccompanied children (UAC) increased by 329 percent compared to May 2017.

 

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

[garyk]

That is so strange, I was just in Falcon state park and the border patrol were coming in and were bored to death.

I asked the lady working there what was up and she said they came in constantly because of nothing to do.

One came by the area where I was birding alone the Rio Grand and told me the same thing.

I can only say what the Border patrol guys I talked to told me! 

Actually I am kinda of suspicious of those figures you posted. I guess true? But, that is not what I was told.

 

Regardless I am real curious now.  I will head that way in a month or two, and I will make a point of cornering a few of those guys and ask a lot of questions. I'll dig this thread back up when i get back.

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by garyk

[pegman]

1 hour ago, garyk said:

That is so strange, I was just in Falcon state park and the border patrol were coming in and were bored to death.

I asked the lady working there what was up and she said they came in constantly because of nothing to do.

One came by the area where I was birding alone the Rio Grand and told me the same thing.

I can only say what the Border patrol guys I talked to told me! 

Actually I am kinda of suspicious of those figures you posted. I guess true? But, that is not what I was told.

 

Regardless I am real curious now.  I will head that way in a month or two, and I will make a point of cornering a few of those guys and ask a lot of questions. I'll dig this thread back up when i get back.

 

I was watching a program last night where a Border Agent was interviewed. He said year to year the migrantion moves to different sections of the border. Where you were it may be down but might be way up out west. Here is a breakdown by area. 

 

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/usbp-sw-border-apprehensions

[spidermike007]

On 6/25/2018 at 9:54 AM, BobBKK said:

 

Forgetting how much they illegally contribute why are you defending illegality?  I find that very odd, do you support foreigners in Thailand working illegally too?  or do you have double standards?

It is amusing to me, that those that cry out about the illegality of illegal immigration, neither support, nor are even willing to discuss reform of the current immigration system. It is completely broken, and has been for decades. Illegal immigrants have absolutely no path towards legal immigration. Educate yourself on the issue. It is a fascinating one, and one that the clown in chief has no interest in discussing, nor reforming. He actually discouraged his party from attempting to reform immigration just this past week. He represents the height of lunacy and dysfunction. 

 

I think the law is not an entity unto itself, nor should it be. Over the centuries the law has been used to defend hundreds of travesties and crimes against humanity. I am not a bleeding heart liberal. But, I do acknowledge how much illegal immigrants bring to the table, in terms of their net benefit to the US economy. And like Thailand, the country would cease to function without immigrant labor. 

 

I have no problem with illegal immigrants in Thailand. None whatsoever. They bring alot to the table. If they can escape the oppression of the immigration system, power to them.

 

But what about the immense strain on social services and money spent on welfare for these law breakers? The Congressional Budget Office in 2007 answered this question in the following manner: “Over the past two decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use.”  According to the New York Times, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration claims that undocumented workers have contributed close to 10% ($300 billion) of the Social Security Trust Fund.

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy

Edited June 26, 2018 by spidermike007

[smotherb]

13 hours ago, pedro01 said:

 

Yeah - it was a fairly simple question - to which you have no answer.

 

Glad you aren't going to say any more though!

Well, I guess you really do not read. So, I feel I must try again to educate you.

 

If you can, please go back to my post #82, where I answered  your ill-formed question.

 

You said, " . . . how should be allowed in . . ."   Whereupon, I said, "I'll consider you meant, WHO should be let in? Easy, those who have gone through legal immigration processes."

 

Should I try to translate it into duh?  Them thar folks what filled out them govment papers, met whut them papers said, paid thar fees, and waited thar turn. 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, smotherb said:

Well, I guess you really do not read. So, I feel I must try again to educate you.

 

If you can, please go back to my post #82, where I answered  your ill-formed question.

 

You said, " . . . how should be allowed in . . ."   Whereupon, I said, "I'll consider you meant, WHO should be let in? Easy, those who have gone through legal immigration processes."

 

Should I try to translate it into duh?  Them thar folks what filled out them govment papers, met whut them papers said, paid thar fees, and waited thar turn. 

But there's a follow up to that question.. How important is it to stop illegal immigration? Is it really a problem for the United States? And if it is a problem, how big a problem? How much resources you you want to devote to it? How much resources do you want to take away from other programs to fund ICE?

[spidermike007]

Should we do away with due process altogether? It is costing over $2,000 a day to house an illegal immigrant. This constitutes a budget crisis! When does he cross the line, and do away with due process and start locking up his protesters? How far away is that? Why not just lock up democratic congressmen and senators who oppose him? Do I hear echoes of Mussolini?

[manarak]

I read little more into the declaration than illegals who are arrested as they just entered the USA should be sent back immediately.

I don't see the problem with that.

Of course the media has another agenda.

[ravip]

10 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Should we do away with due process altogether? It is costing over $2,000 a day to house an illegal immigrant. This constitutes a budget crisis! When does he cross the line, and do away with due process and start locking up his protesters? How far away is that? Why not just lock up democratic congressmen and senators who oppose him? Do I hear echoes of Mussolini?

 It is costing over $2,000 a day to house an illegal immigrant.

Gracious me, that indeed is a princely sum!

How on earth do they "house" an illegal immigrant in the US?

At this rate, more well to do people may consider to be illegal migrants, rather than enter legally!

?

[smotherb]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

But there's a follow up to that question.. How important is it to stop illegal immigration? Is it really a problem for the United States? And if it is a problem, how big a problem? How much resources you you want to devote to it? How much resources do you want to take away from other programs to fund ICE?

I think it is a problem and it needs to be better handled. We are already spending billions annually on ICE expenses.

 

If you are just talking about aliens trying to illegally enter the US, anything other than turning them around at the border is over-expense. So, necessary expenses mean more technology and manpower for finding illegal entry and sending them packing.

 

However, I would put more effort into controlling a major reason for illegal entry; jobs. Better control of temporary work visas is a start. Close businesses which hire illegal aliens and jail the owners. Any business which legitimately needs cheap foreign labor can sponsor workers to legally work here for a time and then go home.

 

Have a simple yet effective way to double-check and identify if workers are legal or not--birth certificates, naturalization papers, green cards, temp visas, etc., all need a national unique numbering system; so more technology and manpower is needed for tracking of workers.

 

For other crimes, illegals must be apprehended, incarcerated and adjudicated.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, smotherb said:

I think it is a problem and it needs to be better handled. We are already spending billions annually on ICE expenses.

 

If you are just talking about aliens trying to illegally enter the US, anything other than turning them around at the border is over-expense. So, necessary expenses mean more technology and manpower for finding illegal entry and sending them packing.

 

However, I would put more effort into controlling a major reason for illegal entry; jobs. Better control of temporary work visas is a start. Close businesses which hire illegal aliens and jail the owners. Any business which legitimately needs cheap foreign labor can sponsor workers to legally work here for a time and then go home.

 

Have a simple yet effective way to double-check and identify if workers are legal or not--birth certificates, naturalization papers, green cards, temp visas, etc., all need a national unique numbering system; so more technology and manpower is needed for tracking of workers.

 

For other crimes, illegals must be apprehended, incarcerated and adjudicated.

Why is it a problem? What it is about the status quo that made illegal immigration such a serious problem. The numbers of illegals coming in have declined drastically? Where's the harm? Most studies show illegal immigrant on balance are a benefit to the country.

[smotherb]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Why is it a problem? What it is about the status quo that made illegal immigration such a serious problem. The numbers of illegals coming in have declined drastically? Where's the harm? Most studies show illegal immigrant on balance are a benefit to the country.

Yeah, so let anyone in? Sorry, I think that is dumber than Trump's stupid immigration policies; like building the wall and separating children from parents.

 

We would do better by just turning them around at the border. Sure, they may come back, so we turn them away again. I believe it would decrease illegal entry for jobs if we had stiffer penalties for US companies hiring illegals. I believe, fewer available jobs would equate to less illegal entries.

 

However, crime-related illegal entry is a different issue and must be dealt with. Unfortunately, it has greater associated costs.

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Yeah, so let anyone in? Sorry, I think that is dumber than Trump's stupid immigration policies; like building the wall and separating children from parents.

 

We would do better by just turning them around at the border. Sure, they may come back, so we turn them away again. I believe it would decrease illegal entry for jobs if we had stiffer penalties for US companies hiring illegals. I believe, fewer available jobs would equate to less illegal entries.

 

However, crime-related illegal entry is a different issue and must be dealt with. Unfortunately, it has greater associated costs.

You're right. That would be dumb. But dumb would also be saying that I said that. Is everyone being let in now? I don't think so. I asked what is wrong with the status quo and the current level of enforcement. Who currently gets in is a mostly hard working group of people with a lower than  average crime rate.

And would it be a benefit for the USA to sharply restrict illegal immigration? Most studies show that the opposite would be the case. And the cost of doing so would be very high. As I've pointed out repeatedly just recruiting officers for the job is very difficult.

And the problem, if it is one, has declined drastically from its height.

[Chomper Higgot]

18 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Yeah, so let anyone in? Sorry, I think that is dumber than Trump's stupid immigration policies; like building the wall and separating children from parents.

 

We would do better by just turning them around at the border. Sure, they may come back, so we turn them away again. I believe it would decrease illegal entry for jobs if we had stiffer penalties for US companies hiring illegals. I believe, fewer available jobs would equate to less illegal entries.

 

However, crime-related illegal entry is a different issue and must be dealt with. Unfortunately, it has greater associated costs.

Trump supporters can start reducing demand for immigrant workers by maintaining their own yard, cleaning their own car, flipping their own burgers, fixing their own roof, making their own sandwiches, picking their own vegetables, cleaning their own old folks home, making their own hotel room up......  

 

Ah... no can’t do that shjt!

[sirineou]

 So much nonsense disseminated for the consumption of the feeble minded on both sides of the issue.

Before the economic collapse  of 2008 there were hundreds of illegal workers in my area of Florida,  if one needed cheap labor, it was easy to find.  Once the jobs dried up so did the illegal labor pool. No one had to go looking for them, no busses had to be hired to ship the out, they simply seft on their own.

You want to eliminate or decrease illegal immigration?

GO AFTER THE EMPLOYERS!!!!  very simple.

 

[smotherb]

37 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

You're right. That would be dumb. But dumb would also be saying that I said that. Is everyone being let in now? I don't think so. I asked what is wrong with the status quo and the current level of enforcement. Who currently gets in is a mostly hard working group of people with a lower than  average crime rate.

And would it be a benefit for the USA to sharply restrict illegal immigration? Most studies show that the opposite would be the case. And the cost of doing so would be very high. As I've pointed out repeatedly just recruiting officers for the job is very difficult.

And the problem, if it is one, has declined drastically from its height.

I think the status quo can be bettered; not just in numbers but in cost. As I have said. Did you not understand what a better temporary work visa system would do?

[Redline]

On 6/25/2018 at 8:22 AM, captspectre said:

is that not what the Thai's do now? the Japanese? the koreans? the cambodians? the Lao? even the mexicans? all the trump haters forget that the rest of the world are not snowflakes and liberals! 

So the country’s founders were snowflakes ?.  

[smotherb]

30 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Trump supporters can start reducing demand for immigrant workers by maintaining their own yard, cleaning their own car, flipping their own burgers, fixing their own roof, making their own sandwiches, picking their own vegetables, cleaning their own old folks home, making their own hotel room up......  

 

Ah... no can’t do that shjt!

Those are the types of jobs that could be mandated for the unemployed, or for aliens if a better temporary work visa system were implemented.

[mikebike]

10 hours ago, garyk said:

Not only did the agents tell me the illegal crossing are down drastically.

There was a guy that operated one of the huge balloons they fly in the area. He said the same thing.

I believe them.

.

I believe them too. In their location and in their personal experience. Now when you have spoken to every other border guard at every location in the country you will have more than one data point and be able to give us the real picture.

[sirineou]

On 6/24/2018 at 7:51 PM, webfact said:

Trump says illegal immigrants should be deported with 'no judges or court cases'

Excellent idea. would save a lot of money. and expedite the process. Why limit it to illegal aliens? I say expand it to all illegal activity in the US.

[Chomper Higgot]

52 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Those are the types of jobs that could be mandated for the unemployed, or for aliens if a better temporary work visa system were implemented.

Put an add up for someone to come fix your yard up and see how many Americans turn up for the job.

[smotherb]

36 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Put an add up for someone to come fix your yard up and see how many Americans turn up for the job.

My home and rental properties are in Florida; I get yard work done by Americans.

[bristolboy]

15 minutes ago, smotherb said:

My home and rental properties are in Florida; I get yard work done by Americans.

You're a better person than Trump. Even in the heart of the recession he was hiring foreigners to work at Mar y Lago.

[smotherb]

Just now, bristolboy said:

You're a better person than Trump. Even in the heart of the recession he was hiring foreigners to work at Mar y Lago.

There is no need to insult me.

[smotherb]

2 hours ago, Redline said:

So the country’s founders were snowflakes ?.  

Sure they were. Snowflake liberals who founded a country based on honesty, equality, freedom, and individual rights; the contards stuck with the British--Tories, you know. Now they're trying to take down our snowflake country.

[Jingthing]

Warning from Dan Rather.

 

 

Quote

 

Rather: Trump not a descendant of some god

CNN Tonight

Journalist Dan Rather says President Donald Trump's call to take away due process for undocumented immigrants is contrary to American ideals and classic authoritarianism.

 

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/06/26/dan-rather-trump-authoritarianism-sot-ctn.cnn

 

Of course "trump" fans don't care. They want him to be a dictator.

 

[Credo]

Well, if it is a crime, even a misdemeanor, then it is a legal issue.   First, someone has to decide a crossing was illegal and that the person is illegally in the US.   Those there needs to be some sort of court involvement or an acknowledgement by the person.

 

People who were in the US illegally in the past could agree to return and would be escorted back across the border, with no definitive court action and no adverse action against them.

 

The situation has changed a great deal, since Mexico now has a reasonably good economy and many of those crossing are not Mexican, so they cannot be sent back 'across the border' 

 

I have lived along two international borders in the past, and people crossed illegally all the time.   Usually, they were returning to their own country after the border closed.   Recently a jogger in Canada accidentally crossed into the US and was detained for two weeks.   No visa was needed, but she failed to present herself at a crossing.   

 

I don't know anyone who is in favor of illegal entry to the US.   I know people who are for easier and quicker legal access, also people who are in favor of easier access to work documents and quicker action on asylum claims, but I don't know anyone in favor of open, uncontrolled immigration.   They may exist, but I've never met one.   

 

Legislation on immigration is a tough road, but it should be remembered that it is businesses, from Silicon Valley, who wants more tech slots to Farmers who want more cheap, seasonal labor.   

[captspectre]

On 6/26/2018 at 3:12 PM, Redline said:

So the country’s founders were snowflakes ?.  

what's that supposed to mean? explain yourself!

 

[captspectre]

On 6/25/2018 at 2:45 PM, LawrenceN said:

Then let's see him do the work of working with Congress to craft the law to his liking. He lacks the leadership ability to do that, and even his lapdogs in Congress are reluctant to expand his power. I assume you voted for him. He always struck me as no more qualified than the loudmouth on the next bar stool. Has no idea what it takes to govern, or even what it means.

who Ivotedfor is none of your dam business! read the post and stick to the topic. you are letting your personal hatred of trump get the better of you and and looking forward to seeing you in the ER! I don't do bar stools. have much better things to do with my life.AND if you can do better why don't you get your ass on a plane and run for office?or would you just prefer to sit on your butt in front of a computer and change the world?

 

[JestSetter]

On 6/25/2018 at 9:00 AM, ezzra said:

Easy for everyone to hide behind the PC cloak roll their eyes to the sky and be merciful and pious like, the question that should be asked is how many more illegal migrants can the US take in before the social system collapses and true american will be left without jobs or social security care because the government and the system are overloaded taking care of millions of undocumented aliens mostly with young children? and when will it all stops? anyone with a coherent answer here or everyone is busy vilifying and demonising Trump?...

 

Well! Okay! Let's not talk about the illegal immigrants who are exploited --or nearly so (1)-- at the helm of those who are outraged at their transgressions. It is not as if the US does not know about exploiting people (African or not). Why would such a smart man like you forget to account for this little problem? Perseverance bias. Let's ignore all the inconvenient evidence. I cannot wait to see Americans cleaning streets and working in farms. A lot more will and for very little money, but probably more than the illegal Mexican.

 

Btw, if you want fewer illegals, tone down your propaganda (Hollywood) and show real houses with real people living in them (not mansions).

 

Btw, Trump is an egomaniacal entitled kid who got 1 million dollars when he was in his 20's from his dad. And he has the nerve to bemoan European countries for being "socialists", giving handouts. What did he get? How many times has he declare bankruptcy? Last time I checked he does not live under a bridge. What a hypocrite!

 

By all accounts, many countries have or are using these as a way to get richer or pay less for services.

 

(1) Doctors who are taxi drivers to programmers from India who don't get paid the same as the white boys.