Put your cards on the table, EU makes last Brexit call to Britain

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, aright said:

Dangerously unbalanced: Germany's economy, not migration, could spell the end for Merkel

Manufacturing, which Germany specialises in, is always the sector most vulnerable to tariffs, and its ridiculously huge trade surpluses, running to more than 8 per cent of GDP, will always put it in the firing line.

It doesn't stop there. The European Central Bank is winding up its programme of quantitative easing, which is all that has kept the eurozone economy afloat for the last two years.

If Europe slows down, Germany will slow down with it. Its banking system looks the wobbliest in the world right now, with the once mighty Deutsche Bank hitting fresh lows every week. If it needs a bailout, the consequences will be cataclysmic. Meanwhile, Germany's surpluses have left it uniquely exposed to a crash.

According to calculations by Die Welt, it is now the second largest creditor nation in the world: Germany is owed €2 trillion ($3.2 trillion) by the rest of the world compared with less than €500 billion a decade ago. If there are defaults on that, even a country with its financial strength will be in trouble.

 

http://fntalk.com/economy/dangerously-unbalanced-germanys-economy-not-migration-spell-end-merkel/

If, If, If.

 

If only Theresa May were able to get her own cabinet to agree the UK’s negotiating position.

[tebee]

It looks like not only are the brexiters getting fed up with the Tories, businesses are too - city donors have slashed their contributions by 74%

 

https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/tory-donations-collapse-as-anger-over-brexit-increases-20180702

[aright]

25 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If, If, If.

 

If only Theresa May were able to get her own cabinet to agree the UK’s negotiating position.

Yes if if if

If only Mrs Merkel could tame Mr Seehofer and see eye to eye with recalcitrant member states on immigration.

If only Mrs Merkel could explain the benefits of the euro to southern members.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, aright said:

Yes if if if

If only Mrs Merkel could tame Mr Seehofer and see eye to eye with recalcitrant member states on immigration.

If only Mrs Merkel could explain the benefits of the euro to southern members.

 

Whataboutary.

 

The topic under discussion (big hint in the OP) is Thersa May’s failure to produce the UK’s negotiating position.

 

She herself admits she has not got agreement with her own cabinet.

 

Your attempts to distract from this utter shambles is noted for what they are.

 

Edited July 4, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[Chomper Higgot]

Brexit: time running out for answers to firms’ real-world questions, says British Chambers of Commerce 

 

http://www.britishchambers.org.uk/press-office/press-releases/brexit-time-running-out-for-answers-to-firms’-real-world-questions,-says-bcc.html

 

 But then who needs businesses, jobs, taxes, exports, imports... trivial stuff like that?

 

 

[aright]

16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Whataboutary.

 

The topic under discussion (big hint in the OP) is Thersa May’s failure to produce the UK’s negotiating position.

 

She herself admits she has not got agreement with her own cabinet.

 

Your attempts to distract from this utter shambles is noted for what it is.

 It's not a distraction its an equivalence but whatever. Your off topic comments are a bit rich considering the time you spent discussing political systems, the Suffragettes, Civil Rights , the Poll Tax etc.....I'm sure you will find some excuses for it . My advice is if you don't like off topic material don't practice it yourself, or ignore it, or report it to a moderator.

Your attempts at cheap point scoring have been noted for what it is.

[Chomper Higgot]

Another reason why Brexiteegrs are pointing wildly at Europe.

 

Thersa May’s failure to even get an agreement on the UK’s negotiating position within her own parliament has increased uncertainty.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/04/jaguar-land-rovers-80bn-uk-investment-plan-at-risk-after-hard-brexit

 

But then what did Alexander Boris (man of the people) de Pfeffel Johnson have to say about ‘Business’?!

 

 

After all, who needs businesses, jobs, taxes, exports, imports... trivial stuff like that?

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, aright said:

 It's not a distraction its an equivalence but whatever. Your off topic comments are a bit rich considering the time you spent discussing political systems, the Suffragettes, Civil Rights , the Poll Tax etc.....I'm sure you will find some excuses for it . My advice is if you don't like off topic material don't practice it yourself, or ignore it, or report it to a moderator.

Your attempts at cheap point scoring have been noted for what it is.

My references to suffragettes etc were a response to another member asking me a direct question regarding my criticism of this government’s continuing Brexit failures.

 

Back on topic now.

 

BCC and Jaguar are not happy with the Government’s Brexit shambles*

 

Well who would be!

 

*( Pre-emotive anti-pedant defense I chose the term ‘Brexit shambles’, not Jaguar or the BCC)

Edited July 5, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[aright]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

My references to suffragettes etc were a response to another member asking me a direct question regarding my criticism of this government’s continuing Brexit failures.

I knew you would have excuses. How about this for being on topic

 

On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 11:49 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

I spent my time canvassing, knocking on people’s doors and talking with them.

 

I spent Election Day driving people with mobility or transport problems to and from polling stations. (some I’m sure were not Labour voters, but then if I helped people vote, I helped democracy).

OK! You can get back on topic now.

[The Renegade]

40 minutes ago, aright said:

Yes if if if

If only Mrs Merkel could tame Mr Seehofer and see eye to eye with recalcitrant member states on immigration.

If only Mrs Merkel could explain the benefits of the euro to southern members.

 

Immigration seems to be a problem ?

 

Quote

Mr Macron said that Europe would be dealing with migration from Africa for decades due to what he called the fundamental problem of unplanned population growth in Africa.

 

He has been criticised for saying the same thing in the past, with some accusing him of repeating colonial rhetoric.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-44715674

 

Thanks to the advent of the internet and social media there is no turning that tap off.

 

Waste € Trillions, come up with any number of groundbreaking schemes, lament over the dreadful deaths in the Med, light candles, say prayers, have big group hugs.

 

It is all in vain.

 

Enjoy.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, aright said:

I knew you would have excuses. How about this for being on topic

 

OK! You can get back on topic now.

Nice try.

 

Now where’s the government’s negotiating policy and why, more than two years after the referendum, has the government still not got agreement within its own cabinet.

 

British businesses and British industry want certainty.

 

What an utter shambles!

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Immigration seems to be a problem ?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-44715674

 

Thanks to the advent of the internet and social media there is no turning that tap off.

 

Waste € Trillions, come up with any number of groundbreaking schemes, lament over the dreadful deaths in the Med, light candles, say prayers, have big group hugs.

 

It is all in vain.

 

Enjoy.

 

Another diversion from the topic under discussion.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

9 hours ago, Grouse said:

Are you still in there??

What a truly appalling example of (off topic) photography; subject not straight, massive and unnecessary foreground, the evidence of a human finger, bottom right, is the only proof that it was not taken by a two year old baboon, or should that be gibbon ?

Edited July 5, 2018 by Eloquent pilgrim

[Scott]

Off-topic bickering is going to result in the thread being closed or members suspended, or maybe both.  

 

Please stay on topic.  

 

[Chomper Higgot]

A weekend to look forward to:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-tory-theresa-may-uk-eu-boris-johnson-jeremy-hunt-a8431656.html

 

If the PM can’t get agreement with her own cabinet, then what?

 

[tebee]

The state of play 

 

 

[RuamRudy]

11 hours ago, nontabury said:

So PM Teresa May, who is a confirmed remainer is making a complete Bxlls up of the negotiations. So no surprise there.What should have happed is that the British person with the most knowledge of the corrupt E.U. ought have been put in charge of our negotiating team. However she has tried to skirt the democratic wishes of the electorate. If she is successful in that endevour, will it come back to  bite her and all the other remoaners?

 

 

If his German passport has been issued by the time this battle is refought, will be still be a British hero, or will he be a British / German hero?

[stephenterry]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A weekend to look forward to:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-tory-theresa-may-uk-eu-boris-johnson-jeremy-hunt-a8431656.html

 

If the PM can’t get agreement with her own cabinet, then what?

 

A  comment attributed to other than me, but is addressed to the Brexiteers, in the main, as the remainers already realise what's going to (not) happen.

 

Let's assume brexiteers are right - the question you must then ask yourself is, do you think the current Government has the ability to implement and manage the necessary changes that would occur when the UK leaves the EU on 19th March 2019?

 

Clues, no cabinet agreement in over two years since the referendum. No hi-tech systems in place to monitor goods at ports, and a five year estimate before that could occur. With more than 2.5 million passing through Dover every year, according to the Institute for Government, a research group, in 2015 goods worth £120 billion passed through, representing around 17 percent of the UK’s entire trade in goods by value. Were all trucks to face customs checks — rather than the current 2 percent — not only business will shut, but there would be no space for them in Dover’s port.

 

No understanding of how long trade agreements take to put in place - the Canada agreement with the EU took 7 years. 

 

But hey, eat fish all day.   

 

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by stephenterry
addition to text.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, nontabury said:

You may be happy with the E.U. However for your own selfish reasons, you are prepared to disregard the democratic rights of your own countrymen. Shame on you.

 

Nothing more selfish than thinking brexit is democratic.

The UK is a parliamentary democracy and a free vote in parliament would put the matter to bed once and for all.

Never going to happen, democracy is a myth, there are many brexiteers that do not respect the will of the people in their constituency and would have their MP vote to suit their selfish reasons.

[sandyf]

BREXIT: THE ANSWERS BUSINESSES NEED

 

http://www.britishchambers.org.uk/Brexit Practicalities Scorecard Final.pdf

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

The state of play 

 

 

Guardian??

[Eloquent pilgrim]

45 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Nothing more selfish than thinking brexit is democratic.

The UK is a parliamentary democracy and a free vote in parliament would put the matter to bed once and for all.

Never going to happen, democracy is a myth, there are many brexiteers that do not respect the will of the people in their constituency and would have their MP vote to suit their selfish reasons.

You obviously think that Brexit is undemocratic, which I assume means that you think the referendum was undemocratic. You are of course free to think so, but I am interested to know why ?

 

 

***The UK is a parliamentary democracy and a free vote in parliament would put the matter to bed once

and for all ***

 

Parliament had a free vote and voted overwhelmingly with a majority of 384 to trigger article 50, that did put the matter to bed, once and for all

[tebee]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Guardian??

Economist 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

10 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

erroneous click ..... apologies

Edited July 5, 2018 by Eloquent pilgrim

[Eloquent pilgrim]

56 minutes ago, sandyf said:

there are many brexiteers that do not respect the will of the people in their constituency and would have their MP vote to suit their selfish reasons.

You are putting this forward as factual, so can you please provide some facts and figures as evidence to support this claim; or did you just make it up ?

[stephenterry]

*Edited post deleted*

 

Incorrect. Putting aside the 384??,  the referendum result was not anything other than informing the government. It was not an ultimation (or legality) that the government had to act upon.

 

Also, it was May's belief that she could trigger article 50 without being approved by parliament and without producing a white paper - which could be factual but not the wisest of decisions (in hindsight). And that 'unthinking it through' triggering is the major reason why Brexit is a shambles today and will continue to be when the UK leaves the EU next year.

 

I think you should take a step back, and face the reality what benefits Brexit will bring and whether the cost is going to be acceptable - to the democratic public.   

 

 

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Incorrect. Putting aside the 384??,  the referendum result was not anything other than informing the government. It was not an ultimation (or legality) that the government had to act upon.

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

16 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Incorrect. Putting aside the 384??,  the referendum result was not anything other than informing the government. It was not an ultimation (or legality) that the government had to act upon.

 

Also, it was May's belief that she could trigger article 50 without being approved by parliament and without producing a white paper - which could be factual but not the wisest of decisions (in hindsight). And that 'unthinking it through' triggering is the major reason why Brexit is a shambles today and will continue to be when the UK leaves the EU next year.

 

I think you should take a step back, and face the reality what benefits Brexit will bring and whether the cost is going to be acceptable - to the democratic public.   

 

 

I was asking a direct question to another poster, the question mark at the end of the sentence was a clue. You are not in a position to answer that question on another posters behalf, because it was his opinion I was asking about.

 

We all know that the referendum result was not legally binding, that is why the government were persuaded to put the triggering of article 50 to a parliamentary vote, the result of which was a majority of 384 in favour

 

You have also altered the text of my post by the use of bold text. This is against forum rules, you are not allowed to alter another poster’s text when quoting them.

 

Now kindly stop flaming me

[The Renegade]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

The UK is a parliamentary democracy and a free vote in parliament would put the matter to bed once and for all.

Correct.

 

And Parliament voted by a margin of 4 to 1 to trigger Article 50.

 

Parliamentary democracy in action.

 

Just so that there is no confusion. Unlike other Countries, the UK will not keep voting until the correct vote is obtained ??

Edited July 5, 2018 by The Renegade

[The Renegade]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

But the vote went the '' Wrong '' way.

 

Hence the constant barking at the moon ??