Chiang Rai: Rescuers make progress on day seven

[atyclb]

"A senior rescue official complained about the wastage of time caused by the lack of adequate coordination between several teams exploring shafts over Chiang Rai’s Tham Lung Cave."

 

i know the situation is grave but you cannot expect the style and mindset to suddenly become that akin to a swiss watch maker.

[lensta]

3 hours ago, TheFishman1 said:

How long can you live without food??

About 60 days as long as you have water

[phil2407]

Can they not use the same as for the Mexican miners trapped? I hope they're still alive, have managed to find safe ground and even managed to get some of the emergency boxes 

But TIT - lack of coordination here even between different agencies - me 1st - astounding (in not a good way) 

hope they find the kids and the coach safe and alive 

as for the guy that has told the truth - either defamation suit or inactive post 

[lensta]

4 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Srivara defends his questioning of officials at Tham Luang cave

 

 

Pol Gen Srivara Rangsibrahmanagul, the national deputy chief, has come under attacks in the social media for what is seen as an act of intimidation toward officials working to save the lives of the 12 young footballers and their coach trapped in Tham Luang Cave.

 

A video clip showing Pol Gen Srivara questioning two officials whether they had a permission to fly a drone and drill a hole in the cave went viral on the last few days. It was his use of language and stern manner that irked social media users who expressed sympathy with the officials on the rescue mission.

 

An official was trying to use a drone to survey the mountain to look for shafts through which search and rescue officials could get down into the cave when Pol Gen Srivara intervened to question whether he had received proper permission to do so.

 

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/srivara-defende-questioning-officials-tham-luang-cave/

 

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2018-06-30

Terminate his employment immediately. POS

[RandolphGB]

It's desperately sad but also entirely predictable that Thai authorities have bungled the rescue operation from day one. 

[Laza 45]

6 hours ago, denby45 said:

"Each box contains a message asking the finder to phone the rescue team and tell them their location and the extent of their water and medical supplies. The message also says, “Please mark on the map where you are. Everyone will come and help you immediately.”"

 

Really??????

 

Den

..I suppose if they have GPS on the phone it could help.. but I'm a novice on this technology so maybe not..  ??

 

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, RandolphGB said:

It's desperately sad but also entirely predictable that Thai authorities have bungled the rescue operation from day one. 

Have you any proof of this to back up your statement?

 

Have you any experience in rescue missions of any kind?

[KiwiKiwi]

6 minutes ago, RandolphGB said:

It's desperately sad but also entirely predictable that Thai authorities have bungled the rescue operation from day one. 

 

FWIW, I agree, and am also very sad about it, but it was not only predictable, having lived here for a number of years, I would say it was inevitable that they would cock it up. Inevitable, despite what the I-love-Thais-I-think-they're-just-wonderful brigade might prefer to think, in spite of all the management excellence Thais are famous for.

Edited June 30, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[RandolphGB]

Yes, read all of the different reports, form your own opinion, and speak to people on the ground in Chiang Rai. 

Edited June 30, 2018 by RandolphGB

[Norrad]

4 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

..I suppose if they have GPS on the phone it could help.. but I'm a novice on this technology so maybe not..  ??

 

GPS is useless underground as it needs line of sight to the satellites. It's why they can't use GPS guided drones in the caves.

Edited June 30, 2018 by Norrad

[KiwiKiwi]

8 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

..I suppose if they have GPS on the phone it could help.. but I'm a novice on this technology so maybe not..  ??

 

I can't help but wonder what kind of cell signal they might have down there. I run out of signal just driving down the road and I'm not in Chiang Rai (if that matters).

Edited June 30, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[Cranky]

1 hour ago, OmarZaid said:

Good Grief ... so then ... who's in charge eh?

Nobody, Somebody, Anybody and Everybody.

 

Somebody told Everybody what to do, Anybody could have done it but Nobody ended up doing it.

[atyclb]

6 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Have you any proof of this to back up your statement?

 

Have you any experience in rescue missions of any kind?

"A senior rescue official complained about the wastage of time caused by the lack of adequate coordination between several teams exploring shafts over Chiang Rai’s Tham Lung Cave."

 

though a tragic situation exists with lives at stake, the thai sop, mindset, style cannot suddenly become that of a swiss watch maker

 

this is not thai bashing, it is reality.  nonetheless i really hope everyone i found alive and well.

Edited June 30, 2018 by atyclb

[Laza 45]

Just now, KiwiKiwi said:

I can't help but wonder what kind of cell signal they might have down there. I run out of signal just driving down the road and I'm not in Chiang Ra (if that matters).

I did wonder about that too.. good point.. 

[CGW]

Just now, Laza 45 said:

I did wonder about that too.. good point.. 

Kind of off topic, but I'm sure you will find that GPS works of the numerous cell towers that are everywhere.

[Laza 45]

1 minute ago, atyclb said:

"A senior rescue official complained about the wastage of time caused by the lack of adequate coordination between several teams exploring shafts over Chiang Rai’s Tham Lung Cave."

 

though a tragic situation exists with lives at stake, the thai sop, mindset, style cannot suddenly become that of a swiss watch maker

...they are doing everything they can.. if they were to do it again no doubt they would refine the procedure.. but give them credit.. they have brought in a large number of experts to try and bring this to a successful conclusion.. 

[Artisi]

1 minute ago, CGW said:

Kind of off topic, but I'm sure you will find that GPS works of the numerous cell towers that are everywhere.

You know, never see a cell tower in a cave system, funny that, isn't it? 

[DenOfEarth]

Cluster <deleted>

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, atyclb said:

"A senior rescue official complained about the wastage of time caused by the lack of adequate coordination between several teams exploring shafts over Chiang Rai’s Tham Lung Cave."

 

though a tragic situation exists with lives at stake, the thai sop, mindset, style cannot suddenly become that of a swiss watch maker

Nonsense.

 

In most missions of this kind people will disagree-plenty of scope to disagree about trying to find different locations to try to enter the cave system.

 

Try googling the mine disaster in Tasmania-plenty of disagreement there and in many another disaster.

 

Many of the posters here are talking through their hats-with little or no knowledge at all.

 

There is no evidence here of Thai incompetence whatsoever.Scoring cheap points on an internet forum does not cut any sort of mustard until the mission is completed and reports are submitted and evaluated.The same as in any other country.

[KiwiKiwi]

2 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

...they are doing everything they can.. if they were to do it again no doubt they would refine the procedure.. but give them credit.. they have brought in a large number of experts to try and bring this to a successful conclusion.. 

Yep, give them credit. Lots of credit. They've brought in a large number of experts. Why would that be? Because they have expertise themselves? Or because they haven't? And why do they seem beset with what even Thai professionals quaintly term ço-ordination issues'?

[jmccarty]

An AUV or ROV is not going to be of any use in a river flowing through a cave. Please don't hate me for saying, I do want these people to be saved.  But the truth is, that the water flow stop and draining is the only way, if they can be saved, it will happen.

[Julie H]

4 minutes ago, Artisi said:

You know, never see a cell tower in a cave system, funny that, isn't it? 

Hopefully the boys have been taught some form of meditation and are able to keep their minds calm until rescue

[KiwiKiwi]

1 minute ago, Odysseus123 said:

Nonsense.

 

In most missions of this kind people will disagree-plenty of scope to disagree about trying to find different locations to try to enter the cave system.

 

Try googling the mine disaster in Tasmania-plenty of disagreement there and in many another disaster.

 

Many of the posters here are talking through their hats-with little or no knowledge at all.

 

There is no evidence here of Thai incompetence whatsoever.Scoring cheap points on an internet forum does not cut any sort of mustard until the mission is completed and reports are submitted and evaluated.The same as in any other country.

 

So when even a Thai 'expert' says there have been ço-ordination issues', we should assume that management is all pickety-boo and all is in wonderful order should we? No matter that is against most of the experiences normally relayed in TVF.

 

 

[SpeedFreakz]

If the world has spent as much money and effort to make tools to help in these situations as they spent on making weapons, these kids would be home by now.

[KiwiKiwi]

4 minutes ago, Julie H said:

Hopefully the boys have been taught some form of meditation and are able to keep their minds calm until rescue

 

Right that'll work at age 12-16 when they're trapped in a big hole and the water is rising. Concentrate on nothing and clear your mind. It's good for you.

 

Good plan.

Edited June 30, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[CGW]

Just now, KiwiKiwi said:

Yep, give them credit. Lots of credit. They've brought in a large number of experts. Why would that be? Because they have expertise themselves? Or because they haven't? And why do they seem beset with what even Thai professionals quaintly term ço-ordination issues'?

They have a great deal of expertise on site, is it being used effectively?

Prior to my retirement I was trained and certified in Major Emergency management, the first thing you do is set up a Command and control center, EVERYTHING goes through the center, their can only be one commander, this isn't a new concept, 30 years ago they used the same 'format" for the Piper Alpha disaster, it has been tweaked and improved many times since.

I see no evidence of a structured rescue to date, hopefully they do have some sort of system in place but its not evident at this time.

[Julie H]

1 minute ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

Right that'll work at age 12-16 when they're trapped in a big hole and the water is rising.

 

Good plan.

 

5 minutes ago, Julie H said:

Hopefully the boys have been taught some form of meditation and are able to keep their minds calm until rescue

I think you underestimate the power of meditation. 

[CGW]

Just now, SpeedFreakz said:

If the world has spent as much money and effort to make tools to help in these situations as they spent on making weapons, these kids would be home by now.

You have to invest time and money in people, Thailand is lacking - to be polite - they prefer the subservient types!

 

[KiwiKiwi]

1 minute ago, Julie H said:

 

I think you underestimate the power of meditation. 

 

That's possible. Unlikely but possible. Wrong guy.

[Odysseus123]

2 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

So when even a Thai 'expert' says there have been ço-ordination issues', we should assume that management is all pickety-boo and all is in wonderful order should we? No matter that is against most of the experiences normally relayed in TVF.

 

 

Most of the experiences on TVF?Font of hot air?And that relates exactly how to this situation?Are TVF posters experts in disasters and their management?

 

I would expect co-ordination issues-especially in the rough scrub above ground.

 

I would expect healthy disagreement.

 

Let us see how this pans out and I hope the boys and their coach return to their loved ones safely.