BREAKING NEWS Thai boys trapped in cave to be given 4 months of food and taught how to dive

[Gandtee]

6 hours ago, robblok said:

Nice.. but did you think about the fact that this is a cave and not all passages are easy to make. The divers even had to take of their gear at some time. So an inflexible object like that is not going to work in my opinion. Unless of course they will widen such passages.

Perhaps a flexible capsul that can be bent around obstructions and corners. We sent men to the moon which I as a kid was just something out of comics.

[Jan Van Caeyzeele]

The most important thing is that they are alive. If it is safer to evacuate them after three months it is so!

[phetpeter]

I hope they are sending them a TV with cable so at least they can watch the football!

[chrisinth]

2 hours ago, Docno said:

Nope. Eating too much too quickly (as this is a natural urge) will kill a starving person. They will have to portion the right (easily digestable food) in small amounts to avoid problems. Providing 4 months of food all at one time--if that is the plan--might be very risky... 

I understand that they have 16 Thai SEALs guarding it so it should be OK.

[phetpeter]

2 minutes ago, Gandtee said:

Perhaps a flexible capsul that can be bent around obstructions and corners. We sent men to the moon which I as a kid was just something out of comics.

Flexible pipes are available now, example most kiddie corners have them, plus the bouncing castle people know how to put together flexible air tunnels that would last long enough to produce crawl thro's

[Artisi]

1 minute ago, chrisinth said:

I understand that they have 16 Thai SEALs guarding it so it should be OK.

Well they are not starving, far far from it, the term is fasting. 

[chrisinth]

1 hour ago, jerry921 said:

Besides trying to scuba them all the way out, or drill a rescue shaft to where they are, I guess there's a combo option of drilling a shaft to the "pattaya beach" part of the cavern and only scubaing them back to that part and then up the shaft & out. Maybe that's an option if the pattaya beach area is larger and they have a better ability to locate it from the surface. It would also reduce the risk of a cave-in right on top of them.

 

I don't know which section of diving is the most difficult or tightest, if the tightest or hardest dive is between the entrance and pattaya beach cavern, drilling to there might work best.

I think if drilling is still an option, that might be something we might see. It will all depend if they have a suitable drilling platform above the cave and access to that platform for the rigs to bore down.

[Unify]

For those suggesting to drill from above, they're in a small area -- pretty difficult to hit an area that size. Perhaps they'll drill where they can, and be able to move the boys to where they break through.

[bdenner]

37 minutes ago, marqus12 said:

What about those divers who found them?

Is this not a national park area?
Did they have the right tickets for foreigners?

Or do they want to slip without paying ?

That's why that police chief (or whatever BS title he had) was intimidating his "subordinates" about a few days ago!

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, phetpeter said:

Flexible pipes are available now, example most kiddie corners have them, plus the bouncing castle people know how to put together flexible air tunnels that would last long enough to produce crawl thro's

Indeed. These kind of 'out of the box' ideas are what are required to solve new problems. 

 

Naturally the tube would have to be strong enough to withstand the water pressure as well as the air pressure on both ends of the cave should be quite similar for this idea to work.

 

Layered, tube, using air or water pressure between it's layers to keep it in shape, allowing the kids to crawl through the water obstructed areas to safety. 

I like this idea. There might be reasons, which will doom it not feasible, but even in that case, we got entirely new method to solve the problem and learn from it. 

 

Well done, both of you and the earlier poster.

[SpeakeasyThai]

7 hours ago, robblok said:

Nice.. but did you think about the fact that this is a cave and not all passages are easy to make. The divers even had to takit e of their gear at some time. So an inflexible object like that is not going to work in my opinion. Unless of course they will widen such passages.

It would bd a terrifying experience to be in the capsule, all things considered.

[thenoilif]

1 minute ago, phetpeter said:

No not all the cave has water in it! Plus they have jack hammers etc. How is that so different to drilling a shaft? They have enough of people and it can be done.  Not all the areas are small just full of water the pipes would allow for a fast transition without the concerns of outcrops and uneven footings. 

Actually according to reports the vast majority of the passage between the entrance and where the boys are is completely filled to the ceiling with water. This was one of the main reasons why it took so long to get there. They had to be extra cautious because there was no place for them to go up for air if needed. 

 

Some of the access cede points are also barely big enough for a very small man to get through. 

 

But hey give you an A for Amagination.

 

 

[natway09]

There is no rush to get them out.

They can be supplied what they need in the meantime.

As to the bright spark who suggested a waterproof, lit oxygenated capsule.. how about some air con while at it. Obviously never been down a real cave before

[chrisinth]

28 minutes ago, Unify said:

For those suggesting to drill from above, they're in a small area -- pretty difficult to hit an area that size. Perhaps they'll drill where they can, and be able to move the boys to where they break through.

What was being discussed was, if possible, to drill into another chamber and then transit from their current location to that point of entry.

 

The UK guys are apparently doing a feasibility study on some electronic gear they have which may be able to penetrate the rock formations for an accurate bore. If they think this will work, it will be shipped directly to Thailand.

[bdenner]

3 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Indeed. These kind of 'out of the box' ideas are what are required to solve new problems. 

 

Naturally the tube would have to be strong enough to withstand the water pressure as well as the air pressure on both ends of the cave should be quite similar for this idea to work.

 

Layered, tube, using air or water pressure between it's layers to keep it in shape, allowing the kids to crawl through the water obstructed areas to safety. 

I like this idea. There might be reasons, which will doom it not feasible, but even in that case, we got entirely new method to solve the problem and learn from it. 

 

Well done, both of you and the earlier poster.

It is an idea to which I had thought about -- BUT -- Physics and practicality could be a problem.

 

How do you stop a flexible tube from collapsing underwater even with it being multi layered without it being fully sealed?

 

How do you drag it through the waterways without damage?

 

Once there and should it fail = what's next? Access blocked!

 

Leave it to the experts. (where are the Chilean's?)

[Kadilo]

7 minutes ago, thenoilif said:

 

 

But hey give you an A for Amagination.

 

 

?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, natway09 said:

There is no rush to get them out.

They can be supplied what they need in the meantime.

As to the bright spark who suggested a waterproof, lit oxygenated capsule.. how about some air con while at it. Obviously never been down a real cave before

That's very optimistic idea. The caves has been carved by the water, which has flown through the caves. 

 

This means that the water lever has previously either gone up to the roof of the hall the kids reside at the moment, or it has caused the collapse of the roof, where they are now.

 

The idea of waiting for 4 months, until the rain season, which has now just started, might not be as good and safe as it first sounded. 

 

That's why there must be various different methods to resolve the situation. Each giving the importance, depending of the changing situations.

[Coconut Kidd]

Just an idea and I'm sure I'll get slammed for it.

 

First, have people and extra air stationed at key points throughout the cave.

 

Fit the boy with a DESCO (or similar) free flow/positive pressure diving helmet. This will protect his head, keep any water from entering the helmet and it can't be taken or fall off easily.

 

Then, have a fully qualified Doctor sedate the boy based on size, weight, etc.

 

The boy is fully flexible and can now be pushed, pulled, and carried safely.

 

No stress, no need to learn to dive, just sleep through the whole thing.

 

The boy can wake up in the hospital surrounded by his family.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal.

[ravip]

3 hours ago, Somchai Logic said:

4 months???

That's longer than Thai "Navy Seal" training 

And you are a what type of a 'seal' , may I  ask? Sounds very smart. 

 

Edit 

Definitely the super rescue battalion has woken up and in full force. I guess by tomorrow morning all will be completed by them. 

Edited July 3, 2018 by ravip

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, bdenner said:

It is an idea to which I had thought about -- BUT -- Physics and practicality could be a problem.

 

How do you stop a flexible tube from collapsing underwater even with it being multi layered without it being fully sealed?

 

How do you drag it through the waterways without damage?

 

Once there and should it fail = what's next? Access blocked!

 

Leave it to the experts. (where are the Chilean's?)

I do like think the way of physics and logic as well. 

 

We don't have the details of the profile, the caves go through. 

 

But let's assume that there are two cave halls, with almost equal air pressures and with some water flow between the caves. Let's assume that the depth of the water, between these two caves, is never more than 10 meter. (In my head, I assume the difference is just few meters, without real knowledge). 

 

It's possible to make a double layered tube, which has internal pressure between the layers more than 1.5 bar. That's enough pressure to fight against the external pressure of 1.4 bars (4 meters water pressure) and to keep the tube open.

 

Naturally the tube must be made of durable material, perhaps something like firefighters hoses are made of.

 

If the tube would fail, it's likely that the persons inside the tube would die. Quite like if a bridge would cut in half in random time, when we pass them. There are risks involved naturally, but this might not to be the time to find the perfectly risk free solutions. Time is a risk itself. It's the time to minimise the risks  and optimise the possibilities to get these kids back home.

 

I like when people share new ideas, how to solve a problem. I like when people commonly start building up and improve other people ideas, also when people doubt the ideas, which often improves the engineering. 

 

[connda]

Hate to be facetious but I wonder if movie rights to this drama are already being negotiated by the grifters who always can see dollar-signs around a potential tragedy.   I only say that due to the fact that there always seems to be media and Hollywood bottom-feeders who will be out to make a buck out of something built off of the backs of quite a bit of heroic action on the part of many people.  Sad, but true.
Personally I'm extremely happy that the situation is currently stable, and I pray it stays that way until those kids and their coach and all those helping are back to safety.  ?  Hopefully they will rethink access to those caves especially once the rainy season is here. 

Edited July 3, 2018 by connda

[phetpeter]

42 minutes ago, bdenner said:

Leave it to the experts. (where are the Chilean's?)

Didn't the mine collapse? If it hadn't they wouldn't have had to stay underground for so long. Experts Na! shouldn't have been needed in the first place!

[Rhys]

...a prayer... May they find the way to work together efficiently, cautiously, and logically, we ask... all the best.

[tukkytuktuk]

The best source of updated information, better than the English Thai media is 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/thailand-cave-rescue-news-live-updates-from-tham-luang-as-families-waiting-of-news-of-12-missing-a3876536.html

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Coconut Kidd said:

Just an idea and I'm sure I'll get slammed for it.

 

First, have people and extra air stationed at key points throughout the cave.

 

Fit the boy with a DESCO (or similar) free flow/positive pressure diving helmet. This will protect his head, keep any water from entering the helmet and it can't be taken or fall off easily.

 

Then, have a fully qualified Doctor sedate the boy based on size, weight, etc.

 

The boy is fully flexible and can now be pushed, pulled, and carried safely.

 

No stress, no need to learn to dive, just sleep through the whole thing.

 

The boy can wake up in the hospital surrounded by his family.

You'll get submerged for offering such an outrageous solution! ? No, not really.

 

Yes, these kind of solutions are all good. However I think there was another writer, who suggested it first, using valium to calm down the kids to avoid possible panicking during the transfer.

 

He was wandering if drugs would have adverse effects to people under pressure. 

 

The aim is to get the boys back to safety. 

 

Let's not forget, that there is a traffic from the cave entrance to the location the boys have been found. There is people moving between these two location to and back. 

 

Those people are experienced cave divers, but they are also delivering food as well as a medical doctor, who is likely a cace diver. Finding the boys was the part of the most extreme cave divers, supplying them with good and less experienced cave diving people, is far less demanding. 

 

If a medical doctor can be delivered to the cave, could the boys be delivered outside as well?

 

[lvr181]

Leave it to the experts on site, plus those with knowledge elsewhere, how to make this rescue complete.

 

I think they will only get one shot at it, so it has to be near perfect to try. 

 

 

 

 

[Artisi]

8 minutes ago, oilinki said:

You'll get submerged for offering such an outrageous solution! ? No, not really.

 

Yes, these kind of solutions are all good. However I think there was another writer, who suggested it first, using valium to calm down the kids to avoid possible panicking during the transfer.

 

He was wandering if drugs would have adverse effects to people under pressure. 

 

The aim is to get the boys back to safety. 

 

Let's not forget, that there is a traffic from the cave entrance to the location the boys have been found. There is people moving between these two location to and back. 

 

Those people are experienced cave divers, but they are also delivering food as well as a medical doctor, who is likely a cace diver. Finding the boys was the part of the most extreme cave divers, supplying them with good and less experienced cave diving people, is far less demanding. 

 

If a medical doctor can be delivered to the cave, could the boys be delivered outside as well?

 

Guess you could, or is that should - consider the Dr. is a fully fledged and competent diver whereas the kids aren't. 

[Coconut Kidd]

15 minutes ago, oilinki said:

You'll get submerged for offering such an outrageous solution! ? No, not really.

 

Yes, these kind of solutions are all good. However I think there was another writer, who suggested it first, using valium to calm down the kids to avoid possible panicking during the transfer.

 

He was wandering if drugs would have adverse effects to people under pressure. 

 

The aim is to get the boys back to safety. 

 

Let's not forget, that there is a traffic from the cave entrance to the location the boys have been found. There is people moving between these two location to and back. 

 

Those people are experienced cave divers, but they are also delivering food as well as a medical doctor, who is likely a cace diver. Finding the boys was the part of the most extreme cave divers, supplying them with good and less experienced cave diving people, is far less demanding. 

 

If a medical doctor can be delivered to the cave, could the boys be delivered outside as well?

 

Thank you for your kind response to my post.

 

A qualified anesthetist and or a Divers Med Tech could prescribe the dose for each boy and have the Navy Seal Medic administer it.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Coconut Kidd

[0815]

3 hours ago, marioDC said:

Maybe I missed something here, but how did those boys get there in the first place ? I mean, surely they wouldn't have crawled through such narrow places when they were exploring the cave (obviously before the flooding came and surprised them). There has to be a passage that is wide enough for them to have walked to the place. Unless they all had speleology lessons before, but with no gear I doubt that's what they were doing. So I think it is quite possible to have such a rescue-tube in there ... but hopefully the water level will decrease enough for them to get out fast and without any harm! Great news, probably the best of the year. Hats off to all those involved in the rescue !!

Have you ever been in one of those caves ???

[Sheryl]

Pretty sure that thing about sending in 4 months of food is "Fake News".

No. It is the plan, as a contingency against worst case scenario....since it is lack of food that is the threat.

The same top notch team who found them -- and thus have personally dived through the area the boys would have to travel -- are leading the planning on getting them out.

My guess is that while simultaneously continuing to explore drilling possibilities they will start training the boys in diving with practice right near where they are sheltered. How the boys respond will influence what is decided and only the experienced divers working with them can assess that.

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