Police raid 11 spots linked to Phuket boat tragedy

[happy chappie]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I gave you the link to the site, showing you there was no warning. Accept that or not, but our posts here show you really have no clue. As you can see, it says 'weather warning', not 'travel advisory'.

"I don't know much" Yes, agree with you there.

As posted earlier this week by a member TMD did not give out any warning for the day in question.

[saminoz]

9 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I gave you the link to the site, showing you there was no warning. Accept that or not, but our posts here show you really have no clue. As you can see, it says 'weather warning', not 'travel advisory'.

"I don't know much" Yes, agree with you there.

Lol, now you are confused!  You say " I gave you the link to the site, showing you there was no warning", and then say "it says 'weather warning'"!  Make your mind up.  Too many Leos today already?

If you clicked on the "warning" link, I believe you'd find the information recommended that small boats keep ashore and ships (which this was not) proceed with caution.

The sk1pper did neither and thus is criminally negligent.

You can take little quotes out of context all you like, as that is all you have to argue with.

Your lost in this subject and are now just embarassing yourself!

Edited July 11, 2018 by saminoz

[saminoz]

7 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I gave you the link to the site, showing you there was no warning. Accept that or not, but your posts here show you really have no clue. As you can see, it says 'weather warning', not 'travel advisory'.

"I don't know much" Yes, agree with you there.

Quote stevenl: "I know that if the weather is not nice there are boats that I will go on and others I will not use."

Yup, that's about the amount of weather forecasting knowledge I suspected you have!

LMAO!

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, happy chappie said:

As posted earlier this week by a member TMD did not give out any warning for the day in question.

Exactly.

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, saminoz said:

Lol, now you are confused!  You say " I gave you the link to the site, showing you there was no warning", and then say "it says 'weather warning'"!  Make your mind up.  Too many Leos today already?

If you clicked on the "warning" link, I believe you'd find the information recommended that small boats keep ashore and ships (which this was not) proceed with caution.

The sk1pper did neither and thus is criminally negligent.

You can take littl quotes out of contect all you like, as that is all you have to argue with.

Your lost in this subject and are now just embarassing yourself!

Yes, weather warning for the 11th ? For the 5th there was no weather warning.

 

"Quote stevenl: "I know that if the weather is not nice there are boats that I will go on and others I will not use."

Yup, that's about the amount of weather forecasting knowledge I suspected you have!"

No, knowledge of the local boats.

 

Sorry, you made your mind up, and have no clue what you're talking about. I'm out of here with you.

Edited July 11, 2018 by stevenl

[happy chappie]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

There was no problem that day boats setting sail. There is a problem with certifying tourboats to operate and requirements they have to meet.

Only speculation unless you actually know more about the certifications this boat has or not has.so far the only problem seems to be the captain of this boat.even if the so called life vest are the wrong type this comes down to the captain.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, happy chappie said:

Only speculation unless you actually know more about the certifications this boat has or not has.so far the only problem seems to be the captain of this boat.even if the so called life vest are the wrong type this comes down to the captain.

I even gave an example earlier of the procedure if boats miss their regular, yearly recertification.

 

I am not the one speculating here.

[Jai Dee]

Enough of the petty bickering thanks gents.

 

[Kieran00001]

6 hours ago, faraday said:

Was it a "raid" or a "search". There's a difference.

 

What makes you think it was not both?  A raid just means they turned up unannounced, what happened afterwards is reported to have been a search.

[LivinginKata]

18 minutes ago, happy chappie said:

Only speculation unless you actually know more about the certifications this boat has or not has.so far the only problem seems to be the captain of this boat.even if the so called life vest are the wrong type this comes down to the captain.

 

This is the twin boat under construction. Marine surveyor says engine door not water tight. Look how low on the rear deck. No wonder swamped.

 

Quote 

“A boat engineer and consultant has analysed the plans for the vessels and determined that the ‘Phoenix’ design has inherent problems.”

“The design seems to have many flaws. The boat should not take to sea with many passengers. The most important thing is the engine door design at the lower level of the boat. When sea water got into the boat the boat engine would be flooded and would stop working.”

“We have also found that the ‘life jackets’ do not reach the International Standard. Those ‘life jackets’ were made at a manufacturing company in Lop Buri, 150 kilometres northeast of Bangkok, but the jackets are labelled that they were made in Nakhon Ratchasima. We are now working with the Office of the Consumer Protection Board (OCPB) to find out more about these jackets.”

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/phuket/boat-and-life-jackets-not-fit-for-purpose

 

 

Edited July 11, 2018 by LivinginKata

[happy chappie]

A couple of planks nailed across the back and good to go.?

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

This is the twin boat under construction. Marine surveyor says engine door not water tight. Look how low on the rear deck. No wonder swamped.

 

 

I think that is the building of another boat, looks like Blue Shepherd. Phoenix had different stairs setup and different entrance to the engine room (on the side, not center). Blue Shepherd was not a twin boat of Phoenix.

There are many other differences, but those relate to position of the entrance to the engine room.

Edited July 11, 2018 by stevenl

[bluesofa]

4 minutes ago, happy chappie said:

A couple of planks nailed across the back and good to go.?

Who are you referring to?

 

[LivinginKata]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I think that is the building of another boat, looks like Blue Shepherd. Phoenix had different stairs setup and different entrance to the engine room (on the side, not center). Blue Shepherd was not a twin boat of Phoenix.

 

You may well be correct as you know the dive boats operating out of Chalong. Just going by report. 

 

Quote - Tourist Police Deputy Commander Maj Gen Surachate Hakparn says, “Yesterday we went to Tanawat shipyard in Rassada where the ‘Phoenix’ boat was constructed. We have found that another twin boat of ‘Phoenix’, with the same blue prints, is currently being prepared and was constructed here too. The other boat has already been moved to another area after 70% of its construction has been completed.”

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Someone correct me here if I'm wrong... but...

 

I'd be very surprised if ANY forecast or warning issued by the TMD has any legal/regulatory bearing on whether boats here can leave port.

 

I'd imagine, rather, that jurisdiction falls to the harbor officers or marine police or similar. And indeed in the wake of these sinkings, they did ban certain smaller boat departures for a short period of time.

 

I think the Thai authorities here are making up stories about the boats violating some kind of ban on leaving port, because there almost certainly wasn't any such ban.

 

However, I also think once the boats were faced with making the return trip and the weather was getting/had gotten bad, the captains of those two boats and their operators are legally responsible for the decisions they made to depart and perhaps also of failing to properly manage their boats in the storm -- both of which led to the deaths and injuries.

 

And that's apart from a whole series of other issues, including:

--were the companies behind these boats illegal operations?

--were the boats themselves properly licensed for their runs?

--were the boats overloaded at the time vs. their permits/specifications?

--were the boats maintained in safe condition with the required life safety equipment?

 

 

Edited July 11, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[LivinginKata]

Don't know what that boat is but it sure has one huge high side and too many decks IMHO

 

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

You may well be correct as you know the dive boats operating out of Chalong. Just going by report. 

 

Quote - Tourist Police Deputy Commander Maj Gen Surachate Hakparn says, “Yesterday we went to Tanawat shipyard in Rassada where the ‘Phoenix’ boat was constructed. We have found that another twin boat of ‘Phoenix’, with the same blue prints, is currently being prepared and was constructed here too. The other boat has already been moved to another area after 70% of its construction has been completed.”

Far from twin boat of Phoenix.

 

I do agree with this assessment " A boat engineer and consultant has analysed the plans for the vessels and determined that the ‘Phoenix’ design has inherent problems. " And yes, it is up to marine authorities to make sure that boats sailing here fit the purpose. It seems that has not happened so far. These life jackets are a nice example, about 1,5 years ago all operators were warned to change the life jackets since they would not hold a person upright. Some operators did, others did not, so a year later, now 1/2 year ago, operators were warned again, saying 'change now or you won't be allowed out'. But nothing has changed, some even have blue jackets. I guess that will change now though.

[jippytum]

I hope the authorities check the dozens of boats in Pattaya sailing to ko Larn. Many have Chinese names and probably Chinese owned. Incidently the boat numbers leaving from Pattaya beach instead of Bali pier is increasing every week.Another example of boat operators flouting the requlations.

[Jonmarleesco]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

Tourism and Sports Minister Weerasak Kowsurat said relevant authorities would meet on Friday to discuss marine safety and how to improve safety measures. 

And then... 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Far from twin boat of Phoenix.

 

I do agree with this assessment " A boat engineer and consultant has analysed the plans for the vessels and determined that the ‘Phoenix’ design has inherent problems. " And yes, it is up to marine authorities to make sure that boats sailing here fit the purpose. It seems that has not happened so far. These life jackets are a nice example, about 1,5 years ago all operators were warned to change the life jackets since they would not hold a person upright. Some operators did, others did not, so a year later, now 1/2 year ago, operators were warned again, saying 'change now or you won't be allowed out'. But nothing has changed, some even have blue jackets. I guess that will change now though.

Quite a few of the diving boats have been checked by the marine department this morning, some others are scheduled for this afternoon. So far some small changes have to be made, but nothing structural. Except for, as I was told but I'm not 100% sure about that, the door to the engine room from the dive platform on one of the boats, that door has to be changed. Other changes are some of the life jackets, AIS signals that have been set incorrectly, etc.

 

That is the diving boats only so far, so not the boats selling snorkeling to the Chinese and then on the boat try to upsell to diving, like Phoenix did. I don't know how and when they're going to handle those.

[huuwi]

6 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Someone correct me here if I'm wrong... but...

 

I'd be very surprised if ANY forecast or warning issued by the TMD has any legal/regulatory bearing on whether boats here can leave port.

 

I'd imagine, rather, that jurisdiction falls to the harbor officers or marine police or similar. And indeed in the wake of these sinkings, they did ban certain smaller boat departures for a short period of time.

 

I think the Thai authorities here are making up stories about the boats violating some kind of ban on leaving port, because there almost certainly wasn't any such ban.

 

However, I also think once the boats were faced with making the return trip and the weather was getting/had gotten bad, the captains of those two boats and their operators are legally responsible for the decisions they made to depart and perhaps also of failing to properly manage their boats in the storm -- both of which led to the deaths and injuries.

 

And that's apart from a whole series of other issues, including:

--were the companies behind these boats illegal operations?

--were the boats themselves properly licensed for their runs?

--were the boats overloaded at the time vs. their permits/specifications?

--were the boats maintained in safe condition with the required life safety equipment?

 

 

happen to me in port blair (india), the habour master make the call, weather is bad you not leave habour, end of the story. reason for them is, you get in trouble they have to send coastguard out to rescue you.

here in phuket we dont have a habour master who is responsable, leave alone to enforce the closing of any port while bad weather is on it's way or already here. and last but not least, we have no coastguard.

[huuwi]

6 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

You may well be correct as you know the dive boats operating out of Chalong. Just going by report. 

 

Quote - Tourist Police Deputy Commander Maj Gen Surachate Hakparn says, “Yesterday we went to Tanawat shipyard in Rassada where the ‘Phoenix’ boat was constructed. We have found that another twin boat of ‘Phoenix’, with the same blue prints, is currently being prepared and was constructed here too. The other boat has already been moved to another area after 70% of its construction has been completed.”

i believe the blue print is just for the hull, rest is free style.

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, huuwi said:

happen to me in port blair (india), the habour master make the call, weather is bad you not leave habour, end of the story. reason for them is, you get in trouble they have to send coastguard out to rescue you.

here in phuket we dont have a habour master who is responsable, leave alone to enforce the closing of any port while bad weather is on it's way or already here. and last but not least, we have no coastguard.

There is a harbour master in Chalong, and it does happen boats are not allowed out 

Edited July 11, 2018 by stevenl

[huuwi]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

There is a harbour master in Chalong, and it does happen boats are not allowed out 

hahaha good one, where did i say we have none, we have one who take no responsablity at all about safety, thats what we have.