Opened Bangkok Bank Account, tried to X-fer from US, trial ACH deposits failed

[trademarkedTM]

I recently opened my first Thai bank account at Bangkok Bank, a standard savings account.  In the US I use Wells Fargo and added a non-Wells Fargo account for ACH transfers, with the New York Bangkok Bank routing number.  In order to do this it requires two test deposits for verification, and then later withdrawals them.  After 3 days Wells Fargo sent me a notification that the ACH transfer failed, but only vague information was provided and they cannot tell me if this was a Wells Fargo problem or a Bangkok Bank problem.  The only idea that Wells Fargo could come up with is that possibly the Bangkok Bank account does not allow debits (needed to take back the Wells Fargo test money).  

 

Any ideas?

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, trademarkedTM said:

The only idea that Wells Fargo could come up with is that possibly the Bangkok Bank account does not allow debits (needed to take back the Wells Fargo test money).  

I think that is the problem. As far as I know only transfers can only be done to here.

Tell Wells Fargo to skip the the debits.

[JAS21]

Why not use TransferWise ...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BKK Bank lately has been having some kind of problem with the setting up of NEW U.S. account links to their New York branch, as a transit point for U.S. ACH transfers making it to BKK Bank in Thailand. If you look thru recent banking threads, you'll find others lately have been having similar problems.

 

Right now, people with EXISTING account links with BKK Bank NY appear to still be able to do ACH transfers from the U.S. thru BKKB New York and have them successfully arrive in Thailand. But not the same for setting up new account links.

 

The BKK Bank NY transit system has ALWAYS been a ONE WAY route, U.S. to Thailand, and it's never been Thailand to U.S.  So that's not the issue. Apparently, and I stress for now apparently, the current problem is something to do with tightened U.S. banking regulations relating to more information being required when funds are being transferred outside the U.S.

 

But BKK Bank thus far hasn't been very communicative or clear about just what's going on, and, on what the result of all this is going to be.

[trademarkedTM]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I think that is the problem. As far as I know only transfers can only be done to here.

Tell Wells Fargo to skip the the debits.

 

On the phone they said they were not able to skip the debit because it is their money being used for the test and they want it back. 

[trademarkedTM]

53 minutes ago, JAS21 said:

Why not use TransferWise ...

It's more expensive

[trademarkedTM]

34 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

BKK Bank lately has been having some kind of problem with the setting up of NEW U.S. account links to their New York branch, as a transit point for U.S. ACH transfers making it to BKK Bank in Thailand. If you look thru recent banking threads, you'll find others lately have been having similar problems.

 

Right now, people with EXISTING account links with BKK Bank NY appear to still be able to do ACH transfers from the U.S. thru BKKB New York and have them successfully arrive in Thailand. But not the same for setting up new account links.

 

The BKK Bank NY transit system has ALWAYS been a ONE WAY route, U.S. to Thailand, and it's never been Thailand to U.S.  So that's not the issue. Apparently, and I stress for now apparently, the current problem is something to do with tightened U.S. banking regulations relating to more information being required when funds are being transferred outside the U.S.

 

But BKK Bank thus far hasn't been very communicative or clear about just what's going on, and, on what the result of all this is going to be.

 

Hrmm, that doesnt sound good...   Maybe I need to do a formal wire transfer?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I think that is the problem. As far as I know only transfers can only be done to here.

Tell Wells Fargo to skip the the debits.

 

The two small trial deposits method is a common banking measure used in the U.S. for verifying/confirming the receiving account for ACH transfers. By requiring the recipient to answer back with the correct amounts for the two small trial deposits, the sending bank is confirming that the correct transfer link has been established.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, trademarkedTM said:

 

Hrmm, that doesnt sound good...   Maybe I need to do a formal wire transfer?

 

If you don't have an already established account link between your U.S. account and your BKK Bank account in Thailand, the NY branch route may not be viable for the time being.

 

You could contact BKKB and try to get a straight answer from them as to what's going on, and when/how you'll be able to establish new account linking thru their New York branch.  Or, look to other options like Transferwise or a traditional wire transfer.

 

[trademarkedTM]

Thanks, maybe ill pay the transferwise fee for now, and perhaps give a call a call to bangkok bank NYC for a straight answer. 

[trademarkedTM]

It's $100 to transfer $10,000 from transferwise.. hrmm...  It's probably only $50 for an international wire, and if I wire to the BKK bank NY routing number its probably considered a domestic wire at $30.  

 

Worst case I just make a Schwab withdrawl every day and walk over to the BKK bank deposit machine.  That will cost nothing but time. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 minutes ago, trademarkedTM said:

Thanks, maybe ill pay the transferwise fee for now, and perhaps give a call a call to bangkok bank NYC for a straight answer. 

 

In some comparisons that Pib and I have run lately, Transferwise actually can be a better value than the BKK Bank NY route for transfer amounts up to $4000 or so.  Once the amounts start getting larger beyond that, TFW starts getting relatively more expensive because they charge a flat % commission on the entire amount you transfer.

 

So you might trying pricing out two back to back $5000 transfers via Transferwise, and see how those would compare to your other options.

 

Schwab would normally give you $1000 U.S. per day. But you might well raise some eyebrows there if you were to do 10 consecutive Thai ATM withdrawals and incur 2200 baht in ATM fee refunds in a matter of days.

 

BTW, Schwab also has relatively modest fees for their wire transfers, including international ones. And even better rates if you happen to have a large balance with them.

 

Specifically, $25 fee for either domestic or intl wire transfers. And, if you have a $100,000+ account balance with them, you get three free wires per quarter, domestic or intl.

 

Edited July 11, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[trademarkedTM]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

In some comparisons that Pib and I have run lately, Transferwise actually can be a better value than the BKK Bank NY route for transfer amounts up to $4000 or so.  Once the amounts start getting larger beyond that, TFW starts getting relatively more expensive because they charge a flat % commission on the entire amount you transfer.

 

So you might trying pricing out two back to back $5000 transfers via Transferwise, and see how those would compare to your other options.

 

Good idea, i will check that out

[trademarkedTM]

8 minutes ago, trademarkedTM said:

Good idea, i will check that out

yeah it's basically a flat percentage so two transfers doesn't make any difference.  I think I will try to get a domestic wire transfer to go through at $30 or just do schwab atm withdrawls every other day. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, trademarkedTM said:

yeah it's basically a flat percentage so two transfers doesn't make any difference.  I think I will try to get a domestic wire transfer to go through at $30 or just do schwab atm withdrawls every other day. 

 

See my added info above about the pricing for Schwab intl wire transfers.

 

[trademarkedTM]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

See my added info above about the pricing for Schwab intl wire transfers.

 

 

Oh sweet, you may have just solved my problem, thanks!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, trademarkedTM said:

 

Oh sweet, you may have just solved my problem, thanks!

 

That what Schwab customer service informed me a few months back in a chat conversation that I kept a printout of. So I'm hoping / presuming the info is correct.

 

I've never done a wire thru Schwab, but their process as described sounds do-able. And if I recall, the first time you want to do a wire with them to some account, they're going to call you on the phone to verbally confirm your instructions.

 

[moontang]

I added an account recently and they were able to  do it in April, but did not take back the 11.5 thb.  Watch out for middle name problems.  And I don't know why people have so much trouble converting several baht to cents..fxs..bbl post their whole exchange history on their site..just look at the date of the deposit..it is going to be the opening TT Buy rate for that day.

Edited July 11, 2018 by moontang

[jackdd]

9 hours ago, trademarkedTM said:

It's $100 to transfer $10,000 from transferwise.. hrmm...  It's probably only $50 for an international wire, and if I wire to the BKK bank NY routing number its probably considered a domestic wire at $30.  

 

Worst case I just make a Schwab withdrawl every day and walk over to the BKK bank deposit machine.  That will cost nothing but time. 

Transferwise gives you a better exchange rate. Afaik in the end the ACH transfer is just very slightly better than Transferwise

[Pib]

Yet another thread talking ACH "trial deposits" being rejected...being rejected by Bangkok Bank back to a person U.S. bank when trying to setup a new ACH funds transfer link in their ibanking.   

 

This is caused by a recent policy change at Bangkok Bank requiring ACH trial deposit to be sent in the International ACH Transfer (IAT) format versus the Domestic ACH Transfer format.   

 

Hopefully "established" ibanking ACH transfer links and U.S. govt payments via Direct Deposit accounts will not be affected...at least they haven't been affected yet based on the info you will see in below two threads....time will tell. 

 

 If a person's U.S. bank also allows setup of an ibanking transfer link "without" using the trial deposit method they should still be able to transfer funds to Bangkok Bank.   Read through the below recent threads on same subject for more info such as the different methods some U.S. banks allow to setup ibanking transfer links, use of Transferwise, a quote from Bankgok Bank of the change, etc.

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by Pib

[Pib]

11 hours ago, trademarkedTM said:

Thanks, maybe ill pay the transferwise fee for now, and perhaps give a call a call to bangkok bank NYC for a straight answer. 

 

If you call Bangkok Bank NY you may not get a straight answer....well, the answer may be straight but you may not understanding the banking talk. 

 

But if you contact Bangkok Bank via email you will eventually get below answer....the answer I got several weeks when I contacted them...during the time frame when above two threads were still pretty active and folks were trying to figure out what was going on....trying to figure out why "trial deposits" were being rejected.    

 

 

Quote

 

With our sincere apologies for any inconvenience you may have experience with respect to Transfer money from USA to Thailand via the US Automated Clearing House system (US ACH) and Bangkok Bank's New York branch.

 

Recently, NACHA updated the Operating Rules to reflect of cross-border transfers, required foreign payments to be classified with the International ACH Transactions (IAT designation), the payment using US ACH or via Bangkok Bank New York to Bangkok Bank in Thailand involving a financial agency’s office that is not located in the territorial jurisdiction of the United States, the file would be required to be formatted as an IAT transaction. You will no longer transferring funds from US Bank to Bangkok bank account in Thailand using ACH domestic method. 

 

However, to remit funds to your Bangkok Bank’s account in Thailand via Bangkok Bank, New York, you must inform the sending’s Bank in US to originated the funds using IAT Standard Format to Bangkok Bank, New York in their payment instruction which requires the name, account number and full address and country of the receiver in Thailand.  Otherwise, the initiate funds transferring from US Bank to Bangkok Bank’s account in Thailand though Bangkok Bank, NY will be automatically rejected. 

 

Please notes that US Bank may charges an International ACH Transactions (IAT), please check the relevant fees and charges from your bank in US. 

 

We apologize for any inconvenience and appreciate your understanding.

 

Should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us. You can also contact our phone banking center at +66-2645-5555 (from the overseas) or 1333 (from within Thailand), a 24/7 service to acquire more information. Thank you.

 

Sincerely,

 

Web operations

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

You will no longer transferring funds from US Bank to Bangkok bank account in Thailand using ACH domestic method.  

 

However, to remit funds to your Bangkok Bank’s account in Thailand via Bangkok Bank, New York, you must inform the sending’s Bank in US to originated the funds using IAT Standard Format to Bangkok Bank, New York in their payment instruction which requires the name, account number and full address and country of the receiver in Thailand. 

This excerpt above from BKK Bank's email to Pib is the problematic part. Because, I don't think anyone here knows how to get a U.S. bank to initiate an IAT funds transfer using people's current domestic U.S. ACH method. And in fact, the email above seems to say the "domestic" ACH method of getting funds to BKK Bank will no longer be allowed at some point.

 

It kind of begins to sound like what BKK Bank in this email is effectively talking about is doing a domestic wire transfer from your U.S. account to BKK Bank New York that includes all the detailed recipient info that they mention in the above excerpt. But it also may be something else.

 

All I know is, all the current domestic ACH transfers I can perform online thru my various bank accounts are NOT, AFAIK, in the IAT format, and my various online banking interfaces don't appear to give any option for putting them into IAT format. So that kinda raises the question, how is anyone here supposed to accomplish what BKK Bank seems to be talking about?

 

 

[trademarkedTM]

Ugh, my head just exploded. ?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, for those who haven't gotten into this in excruciating detail, the IAT term I was using above and BKK Bank used in their email stands for International ACH Transaction -- a term and method I'd never heard of before BKK Bank raised its ugly head in this.

 

https://www.nacha.org/content/international-ach-transactions-iat-solutions-center

 

It's something that probably government agencies like Social Security and corporate payroll processors are probably capable of initiating and handling.  But if and how IAT is accessible to the typical U.S. retail banking accountholder remains a mystery to me at the moment.

[trademarkedTM]

It looks like I can send a "domestic" wire for $30, which is tolerable, if it actually lets me and doesn't consider it international.  Wells Fargo also has this Zelle service.  I'm trying it now, waiting for confirmation.  Has anyone tried it?  I think other banks use it too. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

27 minutes ago, trademarkedTM said:

It looks like I can send a "domestic" wire for $30, which is tolerable, if it actually lets me and doesn't consider it international.  Wells Fargo also has this Zelle service.  I'm trying it now, waiting for confirmation.  Has anyone tried it?  I think other banks use it too. 

 

In my banking readings, Zelle has a very bad reputations among many customers with all kinds of problems occurring -- despite the fact they've somehow managed to ink funds transfer deals with most/many of the U.S. mega banks. I would not use them.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[moontang]

On 6/11/2018 at 8:36 PM, impulse said:

 

 

two different credit u nions  failed the trial...they determined it was an intermediary account/bank.  Also, say it is checking even though it is savings....but Capone 360 worked in April.  

Edited July 12, 2018 by moontang

[Pib]

3 hours ago, trademarkedTM said:

It looks like I can send a "domestic" wire for $30, which is tolerable, if it actually lets me and doesn't consider it international.  Wells Fargo also has this Zelle service.  I'm trying it now, waiting for confirmation.  Has anyone tried it?  I think other banks use it too. 

 

Zelle is for domestic transfers only....snapshot below from their website.  While the Bangkok Bank New York Branch is in the U.S. (their ABA/ACH routing number is being used), your actual account is in a Thailand Bangkok Bank branch.  

 

Additionally Bangkok Bank does not participate/partner with Zelle.  Partial quote of participating Zelle partners beginning with the letter B....from the Zelle website.

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by Pib

[moontang]

Pop money was worthless, as well.

[trademarkedTM]

41 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

Zelle is for domestic transfers only....snapshot below from their website.  While the Bangkok Bank New York Branch is in the U.S. (their ABA/ACH routing number is being used), your actual account is in a Thailand Bangkok Bank branch.  

 

Additionally Bangkok Bank does not participate/partner with Zelle.  Partial quote of participating Zelle partners beginning with the letter B....from the Zelle website.

 

 

 

Oh darn I was thinking Zelle would work since it would go to that "domestic" routing #...