UK police find source of Novichok nerve agent in small bottle

[tumama]

Just now, Becker said:

The trumptards are one thing. Another (and altogether more dangerous group) are the social media influencers paid by Russia.

Judging by some posters' vigorous defense of Putin every time he's criticized on this forum they are definitively present here as well.

 

I get paid to post this? Then please tell me where I can pick up my money then. 

[Spidey]

26 minutes ago, tumama said:

 

The point is, just because it's a nerve agent invented by the Soviet Union, doesn't mean Russia was behind it. The formula is freely available on the Internet. While it's not difficult to make, it is highly dangerous to. 

Whilst it's true that a form of Novichok could be manufactured in a "secret lab" it's chemical signature would be significantly different to that produced by the Russian state. A team of international scientists have already analysed samples taken from the original attack in Sailsbury and confirmed that it was made in Russia. They even identified the actual lab it was made in.

 

There is zero doubt that it was made in Russia and administered by Russian agents.

 

Trump is in denial because he doesn't want to admit that his master would do such a thing.

 

Furthermore, crackpot conspiracy theorists who suggest that it was British agents, not Russian agents, that committed this despicable act, should ask themselves one question - why would they?

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

 

“I can't see any reason for the fsb to plant it in their house?”

 

Actually planting the bottle in the house seems far fetched. Placing it into the hands of an otherwise un involved person (who takes it to their own house) has benefit if you want to throw questions at an investigation pointing towards yourself.

 

Let the pro-Russia propaganda and conspiracy theories continue to flow from the same usual suspects.

"Actually planting the bottle in the house seems far fetched. Placing it into the hands of an otherwise un involved person (who takes it to their own house) has benefit if you want to throw questions at an investigation pointing towards yourself."

 

To be fair, this makes more sense than any other theories put forward!

 

The last para. doesn't deserve a reply.

[manarak]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Possible I suppose, but unlikely?  Why would the russians pay people like this to carry out an assassination attempt?

 

As pointed out by another poster, very little of this whole fiasco makes any sense.

 

yeah, indeed, why would *the Russians*...

but one or a small group of betrayed former Russian spies could have hired help.

 

[Becker]

15 minutes ago, tumama said:

 

I get paid to post this? Then please tell me where I can pick up my money then. 

Did I mention you specifically? Interesting though that you should think that.

[Gulfsailor]

The argument that Russia couldn't be behind all this, because it appears all so amateurish, is completely bogus. Russians f*** up constantly. Although the Russians have a very professional propaganda machine, their hands-on success with violence, assassinations, rescues and military operations is far from flawless.

 

Some examples from the top of my head;

- Shooting down a civilian airliner over Ukraine thinking it was a military plane, thus killing over 300 people. 

- Botched assassination attempt on former Ukrainian president Viktor Yushchenko.

- Botched assassination attempt on Russian journalist Arkady Babchenko.

- Dramatic handling of the Beslan school siege, resulting in the killing of over 300 school children and teachers.

- The botched 'rescue' during the Moscow theater ending with the loss of 170 people. 

 

Russia does not have the know how to do things properly domestically and lacks the intelligence infrastructure and human assets to do things themselves abroad, thus relying on 3rd party contractors to execute plans. 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Conspiracy theories and pro Russia propaganda in full flow.

[Chomper Higgot]

32 minutes ago, tumama said:

 

I get paid to post this? Then please tell me where I can pick up my money then. 

I suspect your rewards are psychological.

[CGW]

1 hour ago, sammieuk1 said:

Defiantly no joke for the Salisbury area population and businesses having weapons grade nerve agent sloshing around.  

Only 8km, coincidently - away they have Porton Down, so they should be used to it, even closer is the Defence Chemical Biological Nuclear centre, a thinking man may well wonder why they need to go to Russia for "chemicals" when they are right on the doorstep. ? 

[CGW]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Conspiracy theories and pro Russia propaganda in full flow.

Sheep warning! ?

[Brunolem]

9 minutes ago, Gulfsailor said:

The argument that Russia couldn't be behind all this, because it appears all so amateurish, is completely bogus. Russians f*** up constantly. Although the Russians have a very professional propaganda machine, their hands-on success with violence, assassinations, rescues and military operations is far from flawless.

 

Some examples from the top of my head;

- Shooting down a civilian airliner over Ukraine thinking it was a military plane, thus killing over 300 people. 

- Botched assassination attempt on former Ukrainian president Viktor Yushchenko.

- Botched assassination attempt on Russian journalist Arkady Babchenko.

- Dramatic handling of the Beslan school siege, resulting in the killing of over 300 school children and teachers.

- The botched 'rescue' during the Moscow theater ending with the loss of 170 people. 

 

Russia does not have the know how to do things properly domestically and lacks the intelligence infrastructure and human assets to do things themselves abroad, thus relying on 3rd party contractors to execute plans. 

 

 

If this is so, why is the whole supersmart Western hemisphere so afraid of stupid Russia, and think that a military budget already ten times larger than that of Russia is still not enough?

 

Ah yes, because the Russians are so stupid that they are preparing themselves to invade the Baltic states, then Poland, and in the end half of the world!

 

Projection: seeing one's own flaws in someone else, rather than in oneself.

[FritsSikkink]

59 minutes ago, tumama said:

 

Can't tell if that's sarcasm. If not, what would be the motive to do that? If they wanted to send a message to traitors, then why did they only give him 18 years in jail? Or why not just kill him in prison? Makes no sense whatsoever. 

The "   "  didn't help you?

YES it is sarcasm.

[steve73]

Unfortunate (perhaps) that the woman whose house it was found in is no longer available to be interviewed.  Wonder if we'll get to hear the boyfriends side of the story, or will he conveniently disappear like the Skripals seem to have....?

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, tumama said:

 

To me, it seems this is what an amateur would do. Not some professional spy hit man. So many things in this case that don't make sense. I hope they find more clues and in particular DNA on that bottle. 

Agreed, but the angle to which I referred might at least have weathered the trace evidence.

[sammieuk1]

This thread is going the same way as other connected threads The facts so far Novichock 100% Russian 100% Russian made smeared on the first attacks door handle a documented Russian KGB tactic .It must be contained only in glass the bottle now found in unknown circumstances .One woman dead .Large parts of Salisbury and surrounding areas closed. Millions of pounds spent on decontamination so far Russia denies everything despite other high profile assassinations. All roads lead to Moscow 100% so far.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, sammieuk1 said:

This thread is going the same way as other connected threads The facts so far Novichock 100% Russian 100% Russian made smeared on the first attacks door handle a documented Russian KGB tactic .It must be contained only in glass the bottle now found in unknown circumstances .One woman dead .Large parts of Salisbury and surrounding areas closed. Millions of pounds spent on decontamination so far Russia denies everything despite other high profile assassinations. All roads lead to Moscow 100% so far.

The Russian propaganda merchants are going to be all over you like a nasty rash.

[dick dasterdly]

24 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Conspiracy theories and pro Russia propaganda in full flow.

I wish certain posters would give up on the attempt to smear people who ask questions/engage their brain as pro-russia/propaganda in full flow....☹️

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

I wish certain posters would give up on the attempt to smear people who ask questions/engage their brain as pro-russia/propaganda in full flow....☹️

If it walks like a duck an quacks like a duck.

[Spidey]

46 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

- motive: why would Russia give a damn about Skripal ten years after releasing him?

 

- competence: why would a top agency with access to top assassins chose a very dangerous poison, including for the assassins, instead of a simple gun with a suppressor, for example?

 

- more competence: why would professional assassins throw the bottle containing the reminder of the poison in a public park, of all places?

 

The Russians released Skripal on a spy exchange. Something the Russians did begrudgingly. Putin wants to send a message to Russian defectors that his arms are very long and will reach them, wherever they are.

 

The Russians have a track record of bumping off Putin's opponents by using Novichok. It's the Russian way - slow and painful.

 

No evidence that it was disposed of in a public park. As yet we don't know where these scratters found the bottle.

[Gulfsailor]

33 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

If this is so, why is the whole supersmart Western hemisphere so afraid of stupid Russia, and think that a military budget already ten times larger than that of Russia is still not enough?

 

Ah yes, because the Russians are so stupid that they are preparing themselves to invade the Baltic states, then Poland, and in the end half of the world!

 

Projection: seeing one's own flaws in someone else, rather than in oneself.

Europe is not afraid of Russia's military 'might' in the slightest. Europe's defense buffet averages 1.4% of its GDP. Russia on the other hand is spending in excess of 5%. Trump is trying to have Europe spend more, knowing most of that extra money will flow towards US defense contractors. 

 

What the West is afraid of is the constant meddling of Russia in Europe's national politics and identity. Like I said, Russia's propaganda machine is better than anyone's, and apart from keeping Putin in power, is mostly active abroad pitting people and parties against each other (left vs right) and breaking up traditional alliances and agreements like the EU (Brexit), Schengen (Hungary, Austria), FTA's and NATO. 

[dick dasterdly]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The Russian propaganda merchants are going to be all over you like a nasty rash.

I think it's time you named the "Russian propaganda merchants" on this forum/thread - rather than relying on smear tactics against those that ask the questions you believe should never be asked.

 

Somehow I know you won't - as (much as in this poisoning case) you have nothing remotely close to 'a case' (other than that they're not blindly following the 'official line'), and so rely on smear tactics rather than discussion. ☹️

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

I think it's time you named the "Russian propaganda merchants" on this forum/thread - rather than relying on smear tactics against those that ask the questions you believe should never be asked.

 

Somehow I know you won't - as (much as in this poisoning case) you have nothing remotely close to 'a case' (other than that they're not blindly following the 'official line'), and so rely on smear tactics rather than discussion. ☹️

The Russian propaganda merchant in chief is Trump. Ergo, his supporters are his "Russian propaganda merchant" minions.

 

There you go, named and shamed!

[Brunolem]

11 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The Russian propaganda merchant in chief is Trump. Ergo, his supporters are his "Russian propaganda merchant" minions.

 

There you go, named and shamed!

Talking about shame, maybe Great Britain should focus on cleaning its own backyard...of course, pointing the finger at others is a good technique to deflect the attention of the local populace who is generally ready to gobble up everything that it thrown its way...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/may/29/roberto-saviano-london-is-heart-of-global-financial-corruption

 

Speaking at the Hay festival, the anti-mafia journalist said British financial services made the UK the world’s most corrupt nation

One can obviously trust every word coming from the government of such a country...

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

18 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I think it's time you named the "Russian propaganda merchants" on this forum/thread - rather than relying on smear tactics against those that ask the questions you believe should never be asked.

 

Somehow I know you won't - as (much as in this poisoning case) you have nothing remotely close to 'a case' (other than that they're not blindly following the 'official line'), and so rely on smear tactics rather than discussion. ☹️

Just look for behaviour and posting that is indicative of pro-Russian propaganda (and conspiracy theories).

 

Especially look to see if the same individuals post pro-Russia propaganda (and conspiracy theories) across multiple threads.

 

Know them by their own words.

 

#WalksLike 

#QuacksLike 

 

My personal views on this latest development in this case are expressed in post #7, I base these on my own in-depth knowledge of chemical analysis and in particular Chromatography.

 

 

[Gulfsailor]

3 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Talking about shame, maybe Great Britain should focus on cleaning its own backyard...of course, pointing the finger at others is a good technique to deflect the attention of the local populace who is generally ready to gobble up everything that it thrown its way...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/may/29/roberto-saviano-london-is-heart-of-global-financial-corruption

 

Speaking at the Hay festival, the anti-mafia journalist said British financial services made the UK the world’s most corrupt nation

 

Ah, countering with some good old trusted Sovjet Whataboutism.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#Soviet_Union_period

 

[Spidey]

9 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Talking about shame, maybe Great Britain should focus on cleaning its own backyard...of course, pointing the finger at others is a good technique to deflect the attention of the local populace who is generally ready to gobble up everything that it thrown its way...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/may/29/roberto-saviano-london-is-heart-of-global-financial-corruption

 

Speaking at the Hay festival, the anti-mafia journalist said British financial services made the UK the world’s most corrupt nation

 

Complete nonsense spouted by an Italian journalist ,to an audience of left wing middle class luvvies, who knows nothing about the UK but has run out of things to say about his own completely corrupt country!

 

Note: Hay Festival is a book festival, mainly celebrating works of fiction.

 

Do me a favour!

[dick dasterdly]

17 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I think it's time you named the "Russian propaganda merchants" on this forum/thread - rather than relying on smear tactics against those that ask the questions you believe should never be asked.

 

Somehow I know you won't - as (much as in this poisoning case) you have nothing remotely close to 'a case' (other than that they're not blindly following the 'official line'), and so rely on smear tactics rather than discussion. ☹️

 

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Just look for behaviour and posting that is indicative of pro-Russian propaganda (and conspiracy theories).

 

Especially look to see if the same individuals post pro-Russia propaganda (and conspiracy theories) across multiple threads.

 

Know them by their own words.

 

#WalksLike 

#QuacksLike 

 

My personal views on this latest development in this case are expressed in post #7, I base these on my own in-depth knowledge of chemical analysis and in particular Chromatography.

 

 

In other words, you're not prepared to name the posters you say are "Russian propaganda merchants"...., but prefer to rely on smear tactics, hoping to incriminate everyone that dares ask questions ☹️.

 

If you're not prepared to name posters that are "Russian propaganda merchants" - perhaps it would be better to discuss the topic in a civil manner, rather than resorting to the childish, playground tactics of name-calling?  i.e. anyone with a different opinion is a "Russian propaganda merchant".....

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

In other words, you're not prepared to name the posters you say are "Russian propaganda merchants"...., but prefer to rely on smear tactics, hoping to incriminate everyone that dares ask questions ☹️.

 

If you're not prepared to name posters that are "Russian propaganda merchants" - perhaps it would be better to discuss the topic in a civil manner, rather than resorting to the childish, playground tactics of name-calling?  i.e. anyone with a different opinion is a "Russian propaganda merchant".....

I think you are being a tad sensitive. 

 

I've pointed at behaviour, not particular members. 

 

Know the particular members by their own words.

 

 

[tumama]

59 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The Russians released Skripal on a spy exchange. Something the Russians did begrudgingly. Putin wants to send a message to Russian defectors that his arms are very long and will reach them, wherever they are.

 

The Russians have a track record of bumping off Putin's opponents by using Novichok. It's the Russian way - slow and painful.

 

No evidence that it was disposed of in a public park. As yet we don't know where these scratters found the bottle.

 

If they want to send a message, then why give Skripal only 18 years? In US you'd get life without the possibility of parole. Not a very harsh message they're sending there. 

 

Russia has a history of using Novichok? Really? Have anything to back that up with or did you just make it up?

 

[dick dasterdly]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

In other words, you're not prepared to name the posters you say are "Russian propaganda merchants"...., but prefer to rely on smear tactics, hoping to incriminate everyone that dares ask questions ☹️.

 

If you're not prepared to name posters that are "Russian propaganda merchants" - perhaps it would be better to discuss the topic in a civil manner, rather than resorting to the childish, playground tactics of name-calling?  i.e. anyone with a different opinion is a "Russian propaganda merchant".....

 

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

I think you are being a tad sensitive. 

 

I've pointed at behaviour, not particular members. 

 

Know the particular members by their own words.

 

 

I'm not at all "sensitive" - just equally amused and annoyed at the attempts to portray those who 'question' as "Russian propaganda merchants"!

 

I repeat - "If you're not prepared to name posters that are "Russian propaganda merchants" - perhaps it would be better to discuss the topic in a civil manner, rather than resorting to the childish, playground tactics of name-calling?  i.e. anyone with a different opinion is a "Russian propaganda merchant".... ?

 

Quite apart from anything else, resorting to this type of statement only shows that you have no intelligent or interesting points to make on the discussion.