Must Read Shock as Trump backs Putin on election meddling at summit

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

Russia is not the enemy even though some US rednecks want to paint it that way. 

Those same rednecks that form Trump's base. See post #259

[heybruce]

33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Oh dear, oh dear ( shakes head in wonder ).

 

except this time he’s going to bankrupt the nation.

LOL, Obama already did that with his 17 trillion or whatever debt.

 

Reality check.  Take a look at this chart:    https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1980_2021USb_19s2li011mcn_G0f

 

Notice how, since 1980, deficits tend to go up, often dramatically, under Republican administrations and down under Democratic ones?  The FY 2009 deficit, driven by the final Bush budget, was $1.3 trillion.  It was a record, but it looks like Trump will beat it.

[smotherb]

10 minutes ago, riclag said:

  We woke up long before DJT came along,in fact the majority of voters for Change used DJT . Is it against the law for American citizens, to do business with Russians? Nothing new about NATO ,it was all discussed during the campaign.

Smoke and mirrors. Look over there!  That is the trump doctrine. No one is saying it is illegal to business with Russia; except maybe trump claiming Germany was totally dependent on Russia because they buy energy from them. And, I don't know which majority of voters you speak; trump won no majority of voters.

[BobBKK]

Just now, Spidey said:

Those same rednecks that form Trump's base. See post #259

No disagreement that Putin wanted Trump as Obama wanted Clinton and us Brits to stay in Brexit. I well remember Obama saying 'save my legacy' as he arrogantly pumped his chest thinking it was 'in the bag'. There is NO doubt that both sides meddle, spin and hack and I'm pretty sure you are not claiming otherwise.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, Sparkles said:

Hardly anyone has mentioned the Russians downing a Malaysian conmmercial plane taking 300 lives

And Crimea anybody?

 

Trump supporting Russian despot, but I suppose the only thing going for the good folk of the US is that Trump is too stupid to know what he is doing...……..Oh, and it's all America's fault anyway??

[smotherb]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

Reality check.  Take a look at this chart:    https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1980_2021USb_19s2li011mcn_G0f

 

Notice how, since 1980, deficits tend to go up, often dramatically, under Republican administrations and down under Democratic ones?  The FY 2009 deficit, driven by the final Bush budget, was $1.3 trillion.  It was a record, but it looks like Trump will beat it.

Providing facts to the trumpets is like pounding sand down a rathole; they would rather believe whatever the great deceiver says.

[BobBKK]

Just now, xylophone said:

And Crimea anybody?

 

Trump supporting Russian despot, but I suppose the only thing going for the good folk of the US is that Trump is too stupid to know what he is doing...……..Oh, and it's all America's fault anyway??

 

Fair points. And Iraq?  Afghanistan?  Iran?  Haiti?  Cuba?  Vietnam?  but let's just ignore those inconvenient 100,000s deaths eh?    I mean USA would never support a despot right?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 

He also called on Pompeo, Kelly and Bolton to resign. He was an Obama puppet and you quote him?  that's unbiased right?  nothing partisan in that right?  we believe you   

 

If Pompeo, Kelly and Bolton supported Trump's performance with Putin yesterday, then they should resign. No, they should be fired.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 

Fair points. And Iraq?  Afghanistan?  Iran?  Haiti?  Cuba?  Vietnam?  but let's just ignore those inconvenient 100,000s deaths eh?    I mean USA would never support a despot right?

 

Well, with Trump as Putin's poodle, we certainly are supporting a despot now.

 

From what I understand of Bolton's political worldviews, in the wake of Trump's performance, if I were Bolton, I'd probably right now either be considering quitting in protest or committing suicide.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Spidey]

8 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

No disagreement that Putin wanted Trump as Obama wanted Clinton and us Brits to stay in Brexit. I well remember Obama saying 'save my legacy' as he arrogantly pumped his chest thinking it was 'in the bag'. There is NO doubt that both sides meddle, spin and hack and I'm pretty sure you are not claiming otherwise.

Of course I agree, I, along with many Brits were disgusted at Obamas comments regarding Brexit, even though I'm a remainer. However, Obama's statements vis-à-vis Hillary and Brexit were, he thought in the best interests of the Democratic Party and the USA.

 

Whole different ball game when you back a foreign dictator against the best interests of your country. It then becomes treason.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Spidey

[tomacht8]

Putin got respect.
And Donald a ball.

trump-putin-melania-ball.webp

Edited July 17, 2018 by tomacht8

[AlexRich]

27 minutes ago, riclag said:

  We woke up long before DJT came along,in fact the majority of voters for Change used DJT . Is it against the law for American citizens, to do business with Russians? Nothing new about NATO ,it was all discussed during the campaign.

 

It is against the law to engage in money laundering with Russians ... as the Mueller investigation will clearly show.

[ChouDoufu]

24 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

....Trump abandoned and contradicted the positions of his own nation and his own government ..

 

i'm not 100% sure, but i'm thinking it's the president that sets foreign policy.  he's the boss of the executive branch and commander in chief.  congress has a say in their capacity of advise and consent.

[BobBKK]

Just now, Spidey said:

Of course I agree, I, along with many Brits were disgusted at Obamas comments regarding Brexit, even though I'm a remainer. However, Obama's statements vis-à-vis Hillary and Brexit re, he thought, were in the best interests of the Democratic Party and the USA.

 

Whole different ball game when you back a foreign dictator against the best interests of your country. It then becomes treason.

I'm a remainer too but we digress (my fault). Obama had no right trying to influence us Brits but we diverge on your 'Putin is a dictator' comment. I know many Russians and have visited over 20 times, speak some Russian and come from (white) Russian stock. Putin is vastly popular within Russia no matter whet CNN tells you and was voted for by 75% in a 65% turnout.

Some might not like the Russian democracy but a democracy it is and looking at the shambles that voted in the megalomaniac the US now has who is to say the crazy US college system is better?  You might not believe me but I can assure you that no one is forced to vote for Putin and my friends gladly do so. Putin is not all bad having pulled Russia out of the Dark Ages, defeated ISIS whilst Obama sat there twiddling his thumbs and many other things. I don't like Trump (I am pro-choice, pro- rights etc.) and I think if the Dems come up with a credible leader they will defeat him BUT not with this 'reds under the bed'  1960s cold war stuff.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, ChouDoufu said:

i'm not 100% sure, but i'm thinking it's the president that sets foreign policy.  he's the boss of the executive branch and commander in chief.  congress has a say in their capacity of advise and consent.

Which is exactly why he will be impeached, if not charged with treason.

[AlexRich]

3 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I'm a remainer too but we digress (my fault). Obama had no right trying to influence us Brits but we diverge on your 'Putin is a dictator' comment. I know many Russians and have visited over 20 times, speak some Russian and come from (white) Russian stock. Putin is vastly popular within Russia no matter whet CNN tells you and was voted for by 75% in a 65% turnout.

Some might not like the Russian democracy but a democracy it is and looking at the shambles that voted in the megalomaniac the US now has who is to say the crazy US college system is better?  You might not believe me but I can assure you that no one is forced to vote for Putin and my friends gladly do so. Putin is not all bad having pulled Russia out of the Dark Ages, defeated ISIS whilst Obama sat there twiddling his thumbs and many other things. I don't like Trump (I am pro-choice, pro- rights etc.) and I think if the Dems come up with a credible leader they will defeat him BUT not with this 'reds under the bed'  1960s cold war stuff.

 

Any credible opponent of Putin is in the gulag, or has trumped up charges set against them that would disallow them from an election. The "opponents" are hand-picked by Putin himself and the media is controlled by the State. No surprise then that Putin is elected. Russia is a corrupt gangster state, as Sergei Magnitsky found out to his cost. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

i'm not 100% sure, but i'm thinking it's the president that sets foreign policy.  he's the boss of the executive branch and commander in chief.  congress has a say in their capacity of advise and consent.

 

He does, but what the Traitor Trump says at a press conference with Putin does not necessarily become U.S. foreign policy. It may be Trump's personal views, but remains to be seen if it will become U.S. foreign policy.

 

The U.S. is on record as opposing Russia's takeover invasion of Crimea. Pretty much the entirety of the U.S. government, including Trump's own appointees, are on record in agreeing that Russia tampered with the 2016 presidential election. Etc etc...

 

Despite Trump's absurd comments with Putin, I don't know that either of those positions are going to change. Now, what's Trump going to do with Russia in terms of formal U.S. foreign policy, remains to be seen.

 

Are we going to invite the expelled Russian spies back to the U.S.?  Are we going to support Russian invasions in the United Nations? Are we going lift current economic sanctions on Russia?  After Trump's latest performance, I would strongly suspect the answers are NO!

 

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Spidey]

Just now, BobBKK said:

You might not believe me but I can assure you that no one is forced to vote for Putin and my friends gladly do so.

I agree that I have yet to meet a Russian that has a bad word to say about Putin. However, if you imprison/ assassinate your political opponents prior to the election and you don't afford them the same rights to publicity/free speech, that's without saying that anyone that stands against you is handpicked by you, you can hardly call it a democracy.

 

The Russians have a different mindset to Westerners and demand, above all else, a strong, nationalistic, unshakable leader. Putin fits that bill perfectly.

[upu2]

Putin is a master of manipulation whereas Trump is a master of stupidity

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, upu2 said:

Putin is a master of manipulation whereas Trump is a master of stupidity

Yes, but "trump" is also a master at being a con man and propagandist. But in this case, he's got his work cut out for him. He won't lose his hard core white nationalist base ever (yes, they are both deplorable and irredeemable) but he's on the verge of significant degradation of other groups that voted for him to give something very different a chance and believed such garbage lies he told about things like health care (for everyone, better, and cheaper) when in action he has done the exact opposite.

His blown up image as a "strong man" has also been deeply damaged. He's forever Putin's Poodle in Helsinki now. Brand him and make it stick and maybe we really can get rid of the orange stain! 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Jingthing

[upu2]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, but "trump" is also a master at being a con man and propagandist. But in this case, he's got his work cut out for him. He won't lose his hard core white nationalist base ever (yes, they are both deplorable and irredeemable) but he's on the verge of significant degradation of other groups that voted for him to give something very different a chance and believed such garbage lies he told about things like health care (for everyone, better, and cheaper) when in action he has done the exact opposite.

To beat Putin he will need to be a lot more skilled than a thug trying to bulldoze his way through. Remember Putin was high up in the KGB and learnt a lot about getting what he wants, plus Putin has been running a country for 12 times that which Humpty Trumpy has. There is a world apart in relation to their negotiating skills and getting what they want

[bristolboy]

30 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I'm a remainer too but we digress (my fault). Obama had no right trying to influence us Brits but we diverge on your 'Putin is a dictator' comment. I know many Russians and have visited over 20 times, speak some Russian and come from (white) Russian stock. Putin is vastly popular within Russia no matter whet CNN tells you and was voted for by 75% in a 65% turnout.

Some might not like the Russian democracy but a democracy it is and looking at the shambles that voted in the megalomaniac the US now has who is to say the crazy US college system is better?  You might not believe me but I can assure you that no one is forced to vote for Putin and my friends gladly do so. Putin is not all bad having pulled Russia out of the Dark Ages, defeated ISIS whilst Obama sat there twiddling his thumbs and many other things. I don't like Trump (I am pro-choice, pro- rights etc.) and I think if the Dems come up with a credible leader they will defeat him BUT not with this 'reds under the bed'  1960s cold war stuff.

First off Putin allows no opposition to flourish. He arrests political opponents and reporters who are too zealous often end up dead. So under those conditions his popularity isn't so surprising, And that's what you call democracy. That and the chauvinism he is pushing.

And Putin defeated Isis? Really? So the US assisted effort in Iraq  was just a minor point in the campaign? And the Kurdish forces backed by the US had no role in the effort. Raqqa liberated itself?

Nonsense.

[AlexRich]

2 minutes ago, upu2 said:

To beat Putin he will need to be a lot more skilled than a thug trying to bulldoze his way through. Remember Putin was high up in the KGB and learnt a lot about getting what he wants, plus Putin has been running a country for 12 times that which Humpty Trumpy has. There is a world apart in relation to their negotiating skills and getting what they want

It helps if you have kompromat ... compromising information over Trump. And that is what Putin is a master of. Trump is not negotiating, he's taking orders. 

[upu2]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

First off Putin allows no opposition to flourish. He arrests political opponents and reporters who are too zealous often end up dead. So under those conditions his popularity isn't so surprising, And that's what you call democracy. That and the chauvinism he is pushing.

And Putin defeated Isis? Really? So the US assisted effort in Iraq  was just a minor point in the campaign? And the Kurdish forces backed by the US had no role in the effort. Raqqa liberated itself?

Nonsense.

Sure the USA went into Iraq and left it without any form of order. They left it in total chaos. Not exactly something I am sure the American people are proud of especially when you consider how many soldiers were killed in the process

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, upu2 said:

Sure the USA went into Iraq and left it without any form of order. They left it in total chaos. Not exactly something I am sure the American people are proud of especially when you consider how many soldiers were killed in the process

But that is not the issue in question. It was claimed that it was Putin who defeated Isis. That is nonsense.

[Lacessit]

I'm wondering if Trump's next step is to pardon the Russians who have been indicted for election meddling.

[ChouDoufu]

8 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

But that is not the issue in question. It was claimed that it was Putin who defeated Isis. That is nonsense.

really?  how many years did the us spend not destroying isis or isil, instead providing weapons to moderate terrorists in hopes of overthrowing a popularly elected sovereign government, and allowing the moderate headchoppers send convoys of oil to turkey?

 

it took what - six months of serious air campaign - for the russian air force to essentially destroy isis?

Edited July 17, 2018 by ChouDoufu

[bristolboy]

8 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

really?  how many years did the us spend not destroying isis or isil, instead providing weapons to moderate terrorists in hopes of overthrowing a popularly elected sovereign government, and allowing them to send convoys of oil to turkey?

 

it took what - six months of serious air campaign - for the russian air force to essentially destroy isis?

I wasn't aware that the Russian Air force was operating in Iraq. Can you provide some evidence for that.

I also wasn't aware that the Russian Airforce was operating in much of Syria where Kurdish ground forces and US air forces pushed out Isis. I am sure  you wouldn't make such a claim without evidence. So when exactly did those Russian jets and Syrian ground forces pulverize Raqqa and vicinity and pretty much all of eastern Syria. I await your response with interest.

Are you familiar with Raqqa? It became Isis' self-declared capital after the fall of Mosul. Did Russian forces defeat Isis in Mosul too?

Edited July 17, 2018 by bristolboy

[Suradit69]

 

13 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

His hardcore fans are too stupid to care, nobody in his right mind would think this is a good situation.

I wonder how Faux News and Sarah Huckabee Sanders are spinning this

 

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Suradit69

[ChouDoufu]

oops, i dinna track back through those posts to see you were speaking about iraq only.  i assumed syria, as the russian is not operating in iraq.  that would be illegal. 

 

the russian airforce is operating lawfully in syria - unlike the turks or the americans or the french or etc.