Comment: Who’s responsible for the sinking of ‘Phoenix’?

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Comment: Who’s responsible for the sinking of ‘Phoenix’?

By Tim Newton

 

 

Who’s responsible for the ‘Phoenix’ boat disaster, the worst maritime disaster in Thailand since the Indian Ocean tsunami of 2004?

 

Whilst events of the fateful evening on July 5 remain under investigation, awaiting a full court hearing down the track, there are some things which are very easy to pinpoint along the faltering chain of command.

 

In Greek mythology the ‘Phoenix’ rose from the ashes. In this case the ‘Phoenix’ boat faltered and sank like a stone.

 

Full story: https://thethaiger.com/news/phuket/comment-whos-responsible-for-the-sinking-of-phoenix

 

-- © Copyright The Thaiger 2018-07-17

 

[darksidedog]

Who is responsible? The weather predominantly, helped along by the stupidity and greed of the operator and Captain in taking the vessel out into said shitty weather. The crew didn't help, by abandoning the vessel, without rendering assistance to those still on board. Many lives could probably been saved if they hadn't made the cowardly decision to save their own necks.

Still, ultimately, it is the negligence of the authorities who must shoulder much of the blame. For too long they have sat back and allowed cowboy operations, without properly overseeing anything approaching decent safety standards.

 

[Odysseus123]

The captain-pure and simple.

[from the home of CC]

follow the $

[300sd]

A passenger on a ship depends on the captain and crew for safety.

 

The captain depends on his knowledge and experience , no matter what anyone else says.

 

If he follows direction from others, he's no captain.

[stevenl]

Authorities have no standards for boat building, owner built a bad boat, captain should not have sailed.

[sirmud63]

1 hour ago, 300sd said:

A passenger on a ship depends on the captain and crew for safety.

 

The captain depends on his knowledge and experience , no matter what anyone else says.

 

If he follows direction from others, he's no captain.

wrong. 

the captain picks up his pay at the end of the week ,just like the crew .

he works for the owners . 

its there responsability.

[300sd]

4 minutes ago, sirmud63 said:

wrong. 

the captain picks up his pay at the end of the week ,just like the crew .

he works for the owners . 

its there responsability.

No you are wrong.

 

The captain has the final say in whether he will risk his passengers, his crew and his own life on the next voyage!

 

Let me put it another way for you. If you work for me and I tell you to jump off the highest building......well I'm not sure what you would do but I know what I do.

 

And let me add, I have a little experience as a captain, to say the least.....bye bye.

[sirmud63]

1 minute ago, 300sd said:

No you are wrong.

 

The captain has the final say in whether he will risk his passengers, his crew and his own life on the next voyage!

 

Let me put it another way for you. If you work for me and I tell you to jump off the highest building......well I'm not sure what you would do but I know what I do.

 

And let me add, I have a little experience as a captain, to say the least.....bye bye.

your little experience is incorrect . 

i owned 2 commercial fishing boats in the last 10 years . 

the captains take there primary orders from me, and nobody else .

or there out of a job .....bye bye.?

[mok199]

Every lawless shamless thai that feels entitled and defiant,speeding the wrong way down a one way,corrupt officials who feel its their right to steel from the poor , on and on...the captain of this vessel is just the ''poster child of the week'' but really just one of millions who are guilty

Edited July 17, 2018 by mok199
speliings

[300sd]

12 minutes ago, sirmud63 said:

your little experience is incorrect . 

i owned 2 commercial fishing boats in the last 10 years . 

the captains take there primary orders from me, and nobody else .

or there out of a job .....bye bye.?

Well obviously you are the captain on your vessels whether you are sailing them or not. If you would ask your captain to leave port on an unsafe vessel, then I don't think much of you. It is still his responsibility, (whether he leaves port or not), but I won't try and change your mind.

 

I on the other hand have worked as the captain on my own 3 vessels in the Pacific for 25 years. But really that doesn't matter, this is just common sense....

[manarak]

35 minutes ago, 300sd said:

No you are wrong.

 

The captain has the final say in whether he will risk his passengers, his crew and his own life on the next voyage!

 

Let me put it another way for you. If you work for me and I tell you to jump off the highest building......well I'm not sure what you would do but I know what I do.

 

And let me add, I have a little experience as a captain, to say the least.....bye bye.

 

it works differently in Asia, especially in Thailand, with Thai skippers and Thai bosses.

Kreng Jai.

The captain is an employee and will avoid to upset the bosses/owners.

Yes he can refuse to leave port, then he just loses his job on the spot and won't find another job as a captain in that area.

Edited July 17, 2018 by manarak

[trainman34014]

Whichever way you cut it the buck stops at The Skipper....in or out of Asia....Period !

[madmitch]

There are already a number of different opinions on this which implies it will be n interesting case to follow when it eventually gets to Court, provided that evidence isn't tampered with and judges and witnesses aren't paid off!

 

The fact that the captain and crew decided to make use of the life-rafts for themselves is the most damning evidence for me.

 

 

[Lingba]

The owners of the boat, the captain and crew, and the gov't  for not properly excercising their authority properly

[merijn]

The captain is off-course the responsible person as he is the boss on the boat.

But unfortunately it isn't that easy in Thailand.

The boat is owned by a "Chinese" company with "Chinese" bosses who only care about the money.

They will tell/force the captain to take the journey regardless the weather as they will lose the money if the boast doesn't go.

The captain doesn't have much choice unless he wants to lose his job and probable without the possibility to find another job in the region.

 

 

[Oziex1]

The responsibility lies with the shadowie figures in the background and the system that supports these people, some call them the Big Man, their greed dictates the terms to all including the Captain.

The big man is generally an untouchable, scapegoats have already been found.

[Darkside Gray]

Was the Captain a Captain or just a boat driver, I would think the later, not trained and maybe to obtain a position with another company if fired for refusing to sail.

IMO the authorities are to blame for not managing the marine tourist industry.

[Old Croc]

The Captain,  the owners,  the boat designers, who ever decided not to install 3 out of 4 pumps in the engine room making it impossible to pump out water after some idiot allowed water ingress to said room,  some idiot, the corrupt criminals whose jobs supposedly are to make public safety a priority.

 

Extreme weather happens occasionally, if not regularly. It's not to blame for the shortcomings of the people entrusted to take boats and passengers onto the ocean.

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Old Croc

[atyclb]

15 hours ago, mok199 said:

Every lawless shamless thai that feels entitled and defiant,speeding the wrong way down a one way,corrupt officials who feel its their right to steel from the poor , on and on...the captain of this vessel is just the ''poster child of the week'' but really just one of millions who are guilty

 

 

they dont perceive it that way. just as standard operating procedure

[Tug]

The regulatory body (design inspections crew training and liscencing) the captain and owners all share responsibility

[andre47]

I still don't understand why this boat sank in 5 meter waves. The ship looks if it could withstand such conditions so long as the captain steers the ship against the waves and not laterally. A technical investigation by a court should find this out.

 

It is easy to say that the captain is responsible. The general weather forecast was not as bad as they shouldn't go out. If you have monsoon weather conditions it can happen that you catch a squall line, but usually this don't take very long. You can see it coming and prepare the ship properly. 

[connda]

The Hindu God Indra and King Neptune.

[Lupatria]

As no Thai would ever take responsibility, try evil spirits. It works here all the time.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Lupatria

[Jingjock]

The skipper is in full control and decides whether to go to sea or not, the post that said quote, "if you not go to sea I will not pay you" So whats the point of having a skipper, If you were my boss and you over rode my decision, I would tell you to go where the sun don't shine, wrong call

[Jonmarleesco]

23 hours ago, sirmud63 said:

your little experience is incorrect . 

i owned 2 commercial fishing boats in the last 10 years . 

the captains take there primary orders from me, and nobody else .

or there out of a job .....bye bye.?

So you're on the boat when it sails? 

[NamKangMan]

On 7/17/2018 at 8:54 PM, sirmud63 said:

your little experience is incorrect . 

i owned 2 commercial fishing boats in the last 10 years . 

the captains take there primary orders from me, and nobody else .

or there out of a job .....bye bye.?

 

And let me guess, if they take your orders and the boat sinks, they are still "out of a job." 

 

I'm sure your insurance company would be interested in reading your post.  ?

[Sir Swagman]

On 7/17/2018 at 5:44 PM, 300sd said:

No you are wrong.

 

The captain has the final say in whether he will risk his passengers, his crew and his own life on the next voyage!

 

Let me put it another way for you. If you work for me and I tell you to jump off the highest building......well I'm not sure what you would do but I know what I do.

 

And let me add, I have a little experience as a captain, to say the least.....bye bye.

What you say is correct. The Captain of a vessel is the ultimate determinant of any action. That is of course in a ‘normal’ world, where checks and balances may exist to provide some backup to a decision that may be unpopular with a company or owner. Here in Thailand? Not a snowball’s of support, and spines are in short supply when a family has to be fed depending on today’s income. I too have experience of this position, in this country. Being castigated and questioned about following procedures, laid down by the company itself, was normal. 

 

[stevenl]

I can now confirm that Phoenix was a reconditioned boat, and most likely sunk at least one time before.

 

Some members may recall seeing a photo of the tourist police commander at a shipyard, with in the background a big tourboat under construction. That big boat used to be a Sea Angel ferry, now being changed into a tourboat, with the deck lay-out changed completely, and at least one added deck. My guess is it would take about 250 snorkelers, aimed at the Chinese market.

[Bung]

Who's at fault? The owning company, captain and chief engineer. I read that water coming into the machinery space couldn't be pumped out. Every boat must have some sort of pumping system to get water out in case of a breach. Bigger boats have several redundant systems. If it wasn't working the engineer was remiss not to fix it, the captain for not feeing up funds to pay for it or the owning company for the same reason. It may have been poor maintenance where (likely) it was rubbish in the bilges blocking the pumps suction rendering it useless.  Last I heard the captain and chief were still locked up.