UK to warn public every week over 'no-deal Brexit': The Times

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, aright said:

Just a reminder. When questions are asked it's reasonable to expect answers.

I'll ask those from Juncker next time I see him.

 

For one, EU has created task force to counter the fake news, Russian propaganda machine is feeding towards Europe. This task force fights with facts. 

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

42 minutes ago, aright said:

“Make improvements, not excuses. Seek respect, not attention.”

..................Comments in a childs school report

 

Just a reminder. When questions are asked it's reasonable to expect answers.

Although you didna ask me, here are some views;

 

 

What solutions have the EU found to massive unemployment in Southern member States?

Not much, but mind you they are southern sovereign states, not EU regions

They do offer free movement of labour, that is a start

 

What solutions have the Eu found to the dissatisfaction of member States as evidenced by a significant increase in votes for extreme right wing partys?

Why should they? I am happy they dont address this. It is not illegal to be extreme right wing, (yet).

 

What solutions have the EU found to illegal and opportunistic immigration?

Thats a good one, not much. Slowly coming now. Establishing camps outside of EU, not quite Australia compatible, but in that direction.

 

What solutions have the EU found to a common currency which only benefits one country?

Thats a question so fuckin far out that it aint worth addressing.

  

 At what democratically held election did I vote for Martin Selmayr? 

You? Dunno. Keep track of your own voting.

[aright]

19 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I'll ask those from Juncker next time I see him.

 

A classic case of someone who doesn't have a mind of his own.

[citybiker]

So what do we recognize? That the EU seems stronger and more unified (also partly thanks to Brexit). Politics and bureaucracy is unavoidable but not really worse than anywhere else. Immigration problems, true but not caused by the EU. Most financial institutions doing just fine (banks in Italy being the exception), unemployment (Southern Europe yes, Northern Europe no), unelected leaders (what are you talking about????), rise of extreme political parties (which seems a worldwide phenomenon, so not because of EU).
The biggest nonsense: the Euro only benefits one country (is it Germany or The Netherlands, or...?).
The truth is that the EU hugely benefits most of its members. The rich ones prosper and many of the poorer ones are growing rapidly (something they would not have been able to do by themselves).
 
The UK, as one of the richer countries, could have benefitted enormously of the EU as well (possibly to a similar extend as Germany) but they decide to self destruct economically (in the case of  a hard Brexit). In the EU extreme political parties hardly get the chance to do extreme things. How about the UK?
 
The UK, with its tabloid press and hopelessly divided main political parties seems a lot less stable than the average EU member.

Seems 'stronger thanks to Brexit? When talks are ongoing is questionable however it's your viewpoint & respected.
Benefiting 'most' members when it's 'supposed' to a unified & level playing field for all MS doesn't wash. I'm sure Victor Orban will appreciate or chuckle at the unified part. The EU is simply a 'clic' of good for some but not others. The Nordic region, The Southern Med & The V4.

You also mention Italian banks however you fail to mention the ongoing debt issue with Greece.

Lastly, a hard or clean Brexit on to WTO is the worst case scenario for many business & industry insiders, and until I see evidence of any self destruct it's yet another forecast.
Also politically, the U.K. Is hardly different from any other with indifferences & as for UK & tabloid press, their a fickle bunch with an agenda, no different to any other media source irrespective of country of origin.


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[aright]

13 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

Although you didna ask me, here are some views;

 

 

What solutions have the EU found to massive unemployment in Southern member States?

Not much, but mind you they are southern sovereign states, not EU regions

They do offer free movement of labour, that is a start

 

What solutions have the Eu found to the dissatisfaction of member States as evidenced by a significant increase in votes for extreme right wing partys?

Why should they? I am happy they dont address this. It is not illegal to be extreme right wing, (yet).

 

What solutions have the EU found to illegal and opportunistic immigration?

Thats a good one, not much. Slowly coming now. Establishing camps outside of EU, not quite Australia compatible, but in that direction.

 

What solutions have the EU found to a common currency which only benefits one country?

Thats a question so fuckin far out that it aint worth addressing.

  

 At what democratically held election did I vote for Martin Selmayr? 

You? Dunno. Keep track of your own voting.

Thanks for your views.

 

What solutions have the Eu found to the dissatisfaction of member States as evidenced by a significant increase in votes for extreme right wing partys?

Why should they? I am happy they dont address this. It is not illegal to be extreme right wing, (yet).

No its not illegal to be right wing but the EU worries about them because its the right wingers that are anti EU. Italy,  France, Poland etc being prime examples.

 

What solutions have the EU found to a common currency which only benefits one country?

Thats a question so fuckin far out that it aint worth addressing.

Its a question that has to be addressed because it could lead to the break up of the EU. The Euro keeps Germany fat and southern Member States skinny.

 

 At what democratically held election did I vote for Martin Selmayr? 

You? Dunno. Keep track of your own voting.

That's my point nobody voted for him he was appointed by Juncker who he will replace when Juncker retires. Euro MPs themselves were angry at the Coup d'etat It's not democratic.

 

[whatsupdoc]

1 minute ago, citybiker said:

Seems 'stronger thanks to Brexit? When talks are ongoing is questionable however it's your viewpoint & respected.
Benefiting 'most' members when it's 'supposed' to a unified & level playing field for all MS doesn't wash. I'm sure Victor Orban will appreciate or chuckle at the unified part. The EU is simply a 'clic' of good for some but not others. The Nordic region, The Southern Med & The V4.

You also mention Italian banks however you fail to mention the ongoing debt issue with Greece.

Lastly, a hard or clean Brexit on to WTO is the worst case scenario for many business & industry insiders, and until I see evidence of any self destruct it's yet another forecast.
Also politically, the U.K. Is hardly different from any other with indifferences & as for UK & tabloid press, their a fickle bunch with an agenda, no different to any other media source irrespective of country of origin.


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The EU are amazingly unified in their response so far to Brexit. Attempts by the UK to divide the governments of the EU27 have failed.

 

The amount of benefit countries get from the EU also depends on themselves. The problems Greece has are largely of their own making, yet they do not want to leave the EU (knowing it would make things worse).

 

For Hungary and Poland, if they cannot share the values of the EU maybe they should reconsider their membership (but once again, they probably won't because of economic reasons).

 

OK self destruct might be exaggeration but we might agree on significant damage.

 

Sorry, but I think your anti-EU tabloid press is quite unique to the UK. Is there any other EU country where you can get away with calling judges "enemies of the people"?

Also I think that the divisions in the Tories and Labour parties about Brexit are incomparable to any splits in opinion (on such an important topic) seen within major parties in the EU27. At least I cannot think of any.

[citybiker]

The EU are amazingly unified in their response so far to Brexit. Attempts by the UK to divide the governments of the EU27 have failed.
 
The amount of benefit countries get from the EU also depends on themselves. The problems Greece has are largely of their own making, yet they do not want to leave the EU (knowing it would make things worse).
 
For Hungary and Poland, if they cannot share the values of the EU maybe they should reconsider their membership (but once again, they probably won't because of economic reasons).
 
OK self destruct might be exaggeration but we might agree on significant damage.
 
Sorry, but I think your anti-EU tabloid press is quite unique to the UK. Is there any other EU country where you can get away with calling judges "enemies of the people"?
Also I think that the divisions in the Tories and Labour parties about Brexit are incomparable to any splits in opinion (on such an important topic) seen within major parties in the EU27. At least I cannot think of any.

Press headline 'Enemies of the people is all part of 'freedom of the Press' & democracy.

Unpopular or popular depending on your viewpioint, even disgraceful to the snowflakes however most of us look beyond this & focus.

EU Amazingly unified? I regularly peruse & research regional & independent political sites & forums & amazingly unified doesn't stand out from an external pov.

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[melvinmelvin]

28 minutes ago, aright said:

Thanks for your views.

 

What solutions have the Eu found to the dissatisfaction of member States as evidenced by a significant increase in votes for extreme right wing partys?

Why should they? I am happy they dont address this. It is not illegal to be extreme right wing, (yet).

No its not illegal to be right wing but the EU worries about them because its the right wingers that are anti EU. Italy,  France, Poland etc being prime examples.

 

What solutions have the EU found to a common currency which only benefits one country?

Thats a question so fuckin far out that it aint worth addressing.

Its a question that has to be addressed because it could lead to the break up of the EU. The Euro keeps Germany fat and southern Member States skinny.

 

 At what democratically held election did I vote for Martin Selmayr? 

You? Dunno. Keep track of your own voting.

That's my point nobody voted for him he was appointed by Juncker who he will replace when Juncker retires. Euro MPs themselves were angry at the Coup d'etat It's not democratic.

 

 

A few views re Euro.

I would not say that the Euro is a great idea. But it is much older than when you started to see Euro coins.

As far back as in the 1980s, you had EUACCs, European units of account could be used for trade could be used for settling

debts or paying dues within the EEC.

 

I am convinced that the Euro as such greatly facilitates cross-border trading in EEA.

For small countries and big countries and the country that the UK has picked to hate - Germany.

(fuckin childish the UK can be)

 

I would describe the Euro as a political dream come true/through.

Architects behind such a plan, plan for success, they don't plan for failure.

During the period that the Euro was politically pushed the pushers did not come

up with checks/balances/control of national budgets/GDPs etc

If they had, the Euro would have been dead and history in 10 minutes.

 

Now, the Euro did work out 100% as expected, some undesirable side effects - no doubt.

 

But to say that it benefits one country only I consider fairly far off.

 

The Euro makes cross-border trading much easier, not for UK though who insists on the quid.

 

 

 

[dunroaming]

17 hours ago, nontabury said:

When civil servants are instructed to look at potential events, they generally side with caution, in other words they think in terms of the worst scenario. Nothing wrong with that, sort of better to be safe than sorry.

That's right and the only way to do it.  But it is all speculation and we continue to try to analyse every statement, looking for clues of what the politicians really mean.  "Food stockpiling!" Gross exaggeration and it has been strongly denied by May and Raab.  However Raab did say that they were "taking measures to make sure that there would be adequate food available".  It is no wonder then that people are getting nervous.  You simply cannot rely on anyone telling you the truth.

[adammike]

14 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

A few views re Euro.

I would not say that the Euro is a great idea. But it is much older than when you started to see Euro coins.

As far back as in the 1980s, you had EUACCs, European units of account could be used for trade could be used for settling

debts or paying dues within the EEC.

 

I am convinced that the Euro as such greatly facilitates cross-border trading in EEA.

For small countries and big countries and the country that the UK has picked to hate - Germany.

(fuckin childish the UK can be)

 

I would describe the Euro as a political dream come true/through.

Architects behind such a plan, plan for success, they don't plan for failure.

During the period that the Euro was politically pushed the pushers did not come

up with checks/balances/control of national budgets/GDPs etc

If they had, the Euro would have been dead and history in 10 minutes.

 

Now, the Euro did work out 100% as expected, some undesirable side effects - no doubt.

 

But to say that it benefits one country only I consider fairly far off.

 

The Euro makes cross-border trading much easier, not for UK though who insists on the quid.

 

 

 

And when they asked the Greek and Italian population if they wanted to ditch the Euro the answer was a resounding NO.

[tebee]

For Ms. May, the exercise is acrobatics. She and her ministers are waving the threat of a "no deal". In doing so, they are transforming the Brexit "opportunities" touted by the Tories as a disaster, citing possible shortages of food and medicine in the event of a border blockage.

 

So now all of Europe knows we are shooting ourselves in the feet...

 

https://www.lemonde.fr/referendum-sur-le-brexit/article/2018/08/04/a-bregancon-may-tente-d-amadouer-macron-percu-comme-hostile-a-son-plan-brexit_5339282_4872498.html

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

For Ms. May, the exercise is acrobatics. She and her ministers are waving the threat of a "no deal". In doing so, they are transforming the Brexit "opportunities" touted by the Tories as a disaster, citing possible shortages of food and medicine in the event of a border blockage.

 

So now all of Europe knows we are shooting ourselves in the feet...

 

https://www.lemonde.fr/referendum-sur-le-brexit/article/2018/08/04/a-bregancon-may-tente-d-amadouer-macron-percu-comme-hostile-a-son-plan-brexit_5339282_4872498.html

The eu has refused to negotiate from day 1, and May agreed to their agenda - which surely tells us all something.....

 

Yes, sections of the media have been telling brits. that in the event of no deal, there will be food shortages/shortages of medicines/no flights in or out of the uk etc. etc.....  And of course, the gullible not only believe this, but keep stating it as fact ?!

[dick dasterdly]

In view of what has happened, I'm pretty sure May assumed she could say one thing (brexit means brexit), whilst acting entirely differently.... (i.e. for some incomprehensible reason, agreeing to the eu's negotiating agenda ?...)

 

To her horror, it became clear that the leave electorate had learned from the pre-referendum propaganda that politicians and media are far from trustworthy!  And so, it wasn't as easy as expected to make the leave electorate change their minds.  Incomprehensibly to politicians and the media - the leave electorate read through their lies and became even more bad-tempered on the subject ?!

[tebee]

44 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

.....

 

Yes, sections of the media have been telling brits. that in the event of no deal, there will be food shortages/shortages of medicines/no flights in or out of the uk etc. etc.....  And of course, the gullible not only believe this, but keep stating it as fact ?!

So you believe there’s an ideologically-driven conspiracy that means that economists, trade & EU experts, lawyers, industry assocs, unions, companies, judges, HMT, the Bank of England, Scotland, the Irish, diplomats, EU27 & UKGov itself are all lying about its consequences ?

 

It's more plausible that the vast majority of experts in their fields, who rely on their reputations and credibility for their careers, are all conspiring to lie, than it is that they may have a point?

 

It’s more plausible that companies and industry associations would simply lie about the dangers they face out of ideological loyalty to the EU, rather than as a result of in-depth studies, analysis and advise as to Brexit’s consequences?

 

More plausible that the Dutch, German and Belgian governments are hiring thousands of customs staff and other EU countries are spending millions on preparations as part of project fear than because they’ve analysed the possible outcomes and decided they’ll be needed?

 

That hundreds of civil servants and Bank of England staff at every level have colluded to falsify their projections, without any paper trail or leaks, because they love the EU and will do anything to protect it?

 

I'm sad that it’s now the norm for people to tell people who’ve spent years working in their fields that they’re lying because a handful of crackpots in the ERG, a couple of RW newspaper editors, Patrick Minford, and a bloke down the Dog and Duck say they know better.

 

I don't suppose you're a climate change denier too by any chance ?

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, tebee said:

So you believe there’s an ideologically-driven conspiracy that means that economists, trade & EU experts, lawyers, industry assocs, unions, companies, judges, HMT, the Bank of England, Scotland, the Irish, diplomats, EU27 & UKGov itself are all lying about its consequences ?

Only the government and the media need be in on the conspiracy.

Nobody else has a voice.

 

'Experts in their field' won't be heard if they disagree.

Same as 'climate change'.

 

We live in a world where no dissent with the western government and security forces is allowed,  if you try you will be silenced, discredited and removed from all public office.

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

The eu has refused to negotiate from day 1, and May agreed to their agenda - which surely tells us all something.....

Yes that tells us that the EU are sticking to what they said from day one while the Brits have got themselves in a terrible mess by setting red lines that were never attainable.   How many times does this need to be said!  Nothing has changes with the EU's position, it is up to the UK to decide if they make concessions or go for the no deal option.

 

Every day now one minister or another refers to the no deal option.  Jeremy Hunt and now today Fox says that "no deal is odds on as the EU won't agree to our Britain's plan".  He rates it as 60/40.  Clearly all this is to try to get the EU to soften their position but what it really does is push the government into more of a corner. 

[whatsupdoc]

41 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Only the government and the media need be in on the conspiracy.

Nobody else has a voice.

 

'Experts in their field' won't be heard if they disagree.

Same as 'climate change'.

 

We live in a world where no dissent with the western government and security forces is allowed,  if you try you will be silenced, discredited and removed from all public office.

Dick Dasterdly had a bit of an incoherent rant (post #373) but you manage to take it to a whole new level....

"It is one big conspiracy and all dissent will be silenced".... Sigh....

 

Any Brexiteers left on this forum with whom we can have a sensible discussion???

[citybiker]

Yes that tells us that the EU are sticking to what they said from day one while the Brits have got themselves in a terrible mess by setting red lines that were never attainable.   How many times does this need to be said!  Nothing has changes with the EU's position, it is up to the UK to decide if they make concessions or go for the no deal option.
 
Every day now one minister or another refers to the no deal option.  Jeremy Hunt and now today Fox says that "no deal is odds on as the EU won't agree to our Britain's plan".  He rates it as 60/40.  Clearly all this is to try to get the EU to soften their position but what it really does is push the government into more of a corner. 

The EU have form on leaving any negotiations to the very last minute, burning the midnight oil & coffee going cold is expected.

I agree the MSN are not helping matters, May's red lines are all part of being accountable to the electorate. Despite external European & global viewpoints these negotiations are bound to get messy either way.

Barnier is also accountable, however when MS see their domestic issues being threaten by no compromise then stand by, something will give.

Besides I prefer chess to poker any day.

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[aright]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Only the government and the media need be in on the conspiracy.

Nobody else has a voice.

 

'Experts in their field' won't be heard if they disagree.

Same as 'climate change'.

 

We live in a world where no dissent with the western government and security forces is allowed,  if you try you will be silenced, discredited and removed from all public office.

Good point. If I could just add to it slightly. The stitch up against Brexit includes the three main political parties, the BBC and Sky, the Civil Service, the CBI and IOD, the Government and of course the European Commission.

 

The whole issue has now become a battle between the establishment and the will of the people.

Imo this is a dangerous place to be.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[citybiker]

Good point. If I could just add to it slightly. The stitch up against Brexit includes the three main political parties, the BBC and Sky, the Civil Service, the CBI and IOD, the Government and of course the European Commission.
 
The whole issue has now become a battle between the establishment and the will of the people.
Imo this is a dangerous place to be.
 
 
 

 

 
 

 

David Bluncket not afraid to speak put.
It's my people who voted for Brexit. To call them racist is wrong and divisive

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/08/04/people-voted-brexit-call-racist-wrong-divisive/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_androidshare_ArDbBG6SBZkl

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[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, whatsupdoc said:

Any Brexiteers left on this forum with whom we can have a sensible discussion???

 

I thought those of us left, that haven't changed our minds, were all too stupid, bigoted or misinformed to have sensible discussions.

[whatsupdoc]

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I thought those of us left, that haven't changed our minds, were all too stupid, bigoted or misinformed to have sensible discussions.

All fine, but please no conspiracy theories.

[aright]

[kwilco]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

The eu has refused to negotiate from day 1, and May agreed to their agenda - which surely tells us all something.....

 

Yes, sections of the media have been telling brits. that in the event of no deal, there will be food shortages/shortages of medicines/no flights in or out of the uk etc. etc.....  And of course, the gullible not only believe this, but keep stating it as fact ?!

You perhaps need to bear in mind that the EU didn't ask the UK to leave so what is there to negotiate?

As for shortages please let's hear why you think this WON'T happen.....

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

Dick Dasterdly had a bit of an incoherent rant (post #373) but you manage to take it to a whole new level....

"It is one big conspiracy and all dissent will be silenced".... Sigh....

 

Any Brexiteers left on this forum with whom we can have a sensible discussion???

Sensible Brexiteer is an oxymoron.

 

(Clatter of tiny mouse clicks as Brexiteers run too Google)

[aright]

13 minutes ago, kwilco said:

You perhaps need to bear in mind that the EU didn't ask the UK to leave so what is there to negotiate?

For the EU £278 billion of exports to the UK

[citybiker]

You perhaps need to bear in mind that the EU didn't ask the UK to leave so what is there to negotiate?

As for shortages please let's hear why you think this WON'T happen.....

EU'S own political protocol aptly named "Article 50" is what's to negotiate, we all bear in mind it could've been ignored but from a legal prospective it's due process.

 

The EU may not have asked the UK to leave, unwilling to self reform made Brexit a reality. Never mind, If Brussels has taken reform seriously it could all have been so different.

 

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[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, aright said:

Good point. If I could just add to it slightly. The stitch up against Brexit includes the three main political parties, the BBC and Sky, the Civil Service, the CBI and IOD, the Government and of course the European Commission.

The whole issue has now become a battle between the establishment and the will of the people.

Imo this is a dangerous place to be.

Give me a break!

[SheungWan]

44 minutes ago, citybiker said:

EU'S own political protocol aptly named "Article 50" is what's to negotiate, we all bear in mind it could've been ignored but from a legal prospective it's due process.

The EU may not have asked the UK to leave, unwilling to self reform made Brexit a reality. Never mind, If Brussels has taken reform seriously it could all have been so different.

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Bogus argument. There were no reforms requested by the UK of the EU which prompted Brexit. And nor were there any demanded by the Brexiteers. Not then, not now.

[dunroaming]

4 hours ago, citybiker said:

The EU have form on leaving any negotiations to the very last minute, burning the midnight oil & coffee going cold is expected.

The EU have never been confronted by Brexit before so I think any previous form has gone out of the window.

 

44 minutes ago, citybiker said:

The EU may not have asked the UK to leave, unwilling to self reform made Brexit a reality. Never mind, If Brussels has taken reform seriously it could all have been so different.

 

I agree that if the EU had been a little more forthcoming then Cameron could have sold the deal to the British people.  Instead we end up with a knee jerk response by the people with the intention being "that will teach them!"  Boy has that backfired with us now scratching around for concessions.  Our only weapon now appears to be the threat of a no deal even though May and the other negotiators admit this would be bad  for Britain and the EU as well.  Apparently though, that would be OK as long as the EU suffers as well as the Brits.

 

All going swimmingly well then.