No More ED Visa's

[natway09]

For most I think the "Ed Visa" is just an excuse for under 50's to stay longer term here.

Maybe they see this as well

[goegoe]

3 hours ago, thedemon said:

 

That doesn't solve the (lack of) Work Permit issue though.

 

It would seem that as things stand now Immigration doesn't put Elite visa holders under the same kind of scrutiny regarding income/working as they do for other visas/extensions. But will that remain the case? I wouldn't count on it.

 

If even elite members cannot work illegally as all the ones that I know do, nobody else will be able to work illegally in Thailand !

 

 

 

[Thaidream]

The purpose of the elite visa was to provide a legal way to stay in Thailand for those under 50 who have independent means of finances and have no need to work.

 

If people are working on this type of visa and they are caught, they will be prosecuted and then the whole elite visa scheme will come under intense scrutiny.

[goegoe]

7 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The purpose of the elite visa was to provide a legal way to stay in Thailand for those under 50 who have independent means of finances and have no need to work.

 

If people are working on this type of visa and they are caught, they will be prosecuted and then the whole elite visa scheme will come under intense scrutiny.

 

Your profile name is correct. You can dream that those people will be caught ? 55555++++

 

 

 

[Thaidream]

5 minutes ago, goegoe said:

Your profile name is correct. You can dream that those people will be caught ? 55555++++

 

I do not wish bad luck on anyone but I have seen over almost 5 decades the pendulum swing often when everyone else indicated it would never happen. Always have a Plan B.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Thaidream

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, OZJAY said:

No incoming funds are allowed from any investments or businesses that are either based in another country or any from of e-commerce business?

Incoming funds from investments and passive income.. Sure.

Working at an online business.. Not so sure.. 

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, OZJAY said:

None of the work is conducted in Thailand, it's an Aussie website where Aussies buy products. The website was set-up in Australia, is hosted in Australia and is managed from Australia. 

 

Who manages your business ?? 

[Dogmatix]

4 hours ago, OZJAY said:

So does immigration expect that everyone who is in Thailand studying Thai for 3 years, must have saved enough money to see them through the entire 3 years?

 

No incoming funds are allowed from any investments or businesses that are either based in another country or any from of e-commerce business?

 

Thailand has a perfectly good system for foreigners of working age who want to reside long-term in the Kingdom and are wealthy enough not to need to work.  It is called the Elite Card.  Anyone who claims to be studying Thai for years at a language school without working should expect to come under suspicion.  There is no reason why Thailand should have to tolerate foreigners working illegally in the country and not paying tax.  The immigration officer was just doing his job and it seems he was right in suspecting the OP of working illegally, since he admitted he was doing e-commerce business.  The OP was lucky that the IO took pity on him after finding out he had a baby born in Thailand and did not deport him this time. 

 

It would make sense for the government to clarify things by limiting ED visas for studying at language schools to a total of 12 months and only allowing renewals for longer periods for degree or diploma courses at recognised institutions after showing enough cash to support themselves for the entire course when they apply for the initial course.  That is what happens in Australia and other Western countries. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by Dogmatix

[overherebc]

4 hours ago, OZJAY said:

So does immigration expect that everyone who is in Thailand studying Thai for 3 years, must have saved enough money to see them through the entire 3 years?

 

No incoming funds are allowed from any investments or businesses that are either based in another country or any from of e-commerce business?

So do transfers on a monthly basis from your 'savings' in Oz.

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Ned said:

If you have an income, don't you have to pay tax somewhere?

Depends one when its remitted v when its earned v how many days per year he is inside Thailand or Oz or etc etc.. 

[kingstonkid]

2 hours ago, OZJAY said:

For the last 2 years I have never been asked to show proof of income, as I believe it's not a requirement if you are in Thailand on ED Visa/extension.

 

When I mentioned I have savings and also had an online business, they had the opportunity to ask for proof there and then, which they did not.

 

They couldn't use my lack of Thai language skills, the basis of why I am here in the first place, so in the end they had nothing!

 

I think it was a case of "many tattoo" = farang criminal, not the first time and won't be the last.

 

All things aside, we plan to stay in Thailand long term and will probably go the Thai company/work permit route in the near future.

 

 

 

 

3

BE CAREFUL  when you attempt this the rules are strict.  

 

Remember you can not own a Thai business.

 

A Thai business must have 4 Thai employees. 

 

The Thai employees must own a minimum of 51% of the business and they require letters from the bank stating that they have the funds in the bank to purchase the shares in one lump sum.

 

You will need 2 million baht in registered capital and the shareholders will have to input at least 260k baht 

 

You have to have a business office.  You have to pay them a minimum wage in BKK that is 340 a day I believe as a FULL-TIME WAGE.

 

You also have to pay all the taxes and such as well as SS for your employees.

 

Beleive me it is not easy or cheap.

 

BTW paper employees don't work as you have to give their information as well as the shareholders have to sign and register.

 

Considering that you do not have a Thai family or wife do you have Thai friends that you trust this much?

fri

 

 

 

tHIS WILL GET ONE OF YOU A WORK VISA.

[impulse]

30 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

It would make sense for the government to clarify things by limiting ED visas for studying at language schools to a total of 12 months and only allowing renewals for longer periods for degree or diploma courses at recognised institutions after showing enough cash to support themselves for the entire course when they apply for the initial course.  That is what happens in Australia and other Western countries. 

 

I've never understood the logic behind offering a visa to study a language when the only purpose of learning that language is to make life easier in the country where you're not qualified to stay under any program beside the ED visa.  Seems a little circular... It's not as if Thai is in wide use anywhere but Thailand. (Unlike, for example, English or Mandarin)

 

I used to help my Chinese neighbors when they got refusal letters for an ED visa to the USA or Canada.  The number one reason I saw for the refusals was that the IO had significant doubt that the course of study would increase the student's earning power beyond the cost of studying.   I think the implication was that the student had no intention to repatriate to a better job when the courses were completed.

 

[Maestro]

Quote

 

Currently on 3rd ED visa...

 

 

4 hours ago, OZJAY said:

I have never been asked to prove funds or show proof of an income source for the previous 2 years of ED visa's...

 

Something does not add up. Arriving with a non-ED visa you get permission to stay for 90 days. Three visas add up to 270 days. Or are you taking a degree-earning course at a university and therefore getting one-year extensions of stay?

[Maestro]

Your ability to speak Thai may be taken as an indication that you studied the language while in Thailand for the reason of study, but it does not help to dispel the suspicion that you lived in Thailand with money earned by working in Thailand illegally during that time. For the latter, you need convincing evidence that you defrayed your cost of living with funds brought in from abroad, such as

1. documents evidencing remittances from a bank account outside Thailand to your bank account in Thailand, eg receipts for incoming remittances issued by your Thai bank,
2. evidence of spending the foreign-sourced funds for your living expenses, eg remittances for rental, utilities, etc and cash withdrawals.

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post.

[thaiclan]

5 hours ago, jenny2017 said:

 

 

I'm heavily tattooed including my neck, so I am sure I was initially singled out because of this. But why after speaking "almost" fluent Thai, was that not enough to satisfy the imm officers that I was indeed a student in Thailand?

 

   I also let him know, I live with my partner who is Russian, and we have an 18 month old baby who was born here in Thailand.

 

     They were not concerned about your Thai speaking skills. 

 

     

Your baby will also require a visa to return into the country if you ever go out on holiday.  When you leave Thailand they will be on an overstay, and although they cannot be fined as a minor they will still need the stamp in their passport.
All people regardless of age (even infants) need a visa.

Our family was similar to yours, both young expats not working here but living here long term (15 years).  Family Elite visa was the only way to go for us.

[overherebc]

7 hours ago, sanemax said:

Is there a Visa available for parents of non Thai ,Thai born  Thai school going children ?

 

That was probably what prompted my question on visa for parents having a non-thai kid in Thailand and it has been answered. ?

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, overherebc said:

That was probably what prompted my question on visa for parents having a non-thai kid in Thailand and it has been answered. ?

My question was different to your question .

[Time Traveller]

the comments on this topic are mostly just ridiculous speculation. The only way to find out what the issue was (and i doubt there was one as he was let into the country after answering some typical questions) is to ask the immigration officers themselves. Which he didn't. So it seems silly to then come on here and ask strangers who have no clue what the issue was.

Remember, immigration officers are not there to be friendly. They are trained to make people feel uncomfortable to see how they react. Random people get selected and even told they can't stay in Thailand.  This happened to me once, even before they looked at my passport and work permit! Seems crazy, but everyone has the power to ask them questions. 

The speculation by some posters here that immigration suspected he was working makes no sense. How can anyone prove they are not working? You can't.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Time Traveller

[overherebc]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

My question was different to your question .

Yes, but I just had a feeling I read on TV in post somewhere in the past about kids and parents visas.

[overherebc]

2 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

the comments on this topic are mostly just ridiculous speculation. The only way to find out what the issue was (and i doubt there was one as he was let into the country after answering some typical questions) is to ask the immigration officers themselves. Which he didn't. So it seems silly to then come on here and ask strangers who have no clue what the issue was.

Remember, immigration officers are not there to be friendly. They are trained to make people feel uncomfortable to see how they react. Random people get selected and even told they can't stay in Thailand.  This happened to me once, even before they looked at my passport ! Seems crazy, but everyone has the power to ask questions. 

The speculation by some posters here that immigration suspected he was working makes no sense. How can anyone prove they are not working? You can't.

All true what you say.

The stumbling blocks are many and varied.

Different concepts by different nationalties etc.

Friend of mine would come into the bar wearing jeans, trainers, T shirt and a battered leather jacket. A few nationalities would look at him and decide what his appearance meant. Some would think scruffy poor guy, some wouldn't give a monkeys.

If they saw him turn up in his Bentley, not an old one, some would think rich guy, some nationalities would think he must have stolen it. ??

He did actually own his own retail business.

Different peoples, different perceptions.

??

For an easy life you go with the flow.

[Paul944]

There are no cheap alternatives to replace the ED visa if you are below 50. 

 

The easiest, the Elite visa will cost about 1,3 million baht upfront, 260,000 baht each year for  2 adults and one child

 

Starting a company will require a 2 million baht investment capital and all the hassle of having a company (4 thai workers per foreigner on the pay list).No idea how you obtain a visa for your child based on this.

 

If you have over 10 million baht in savings you can consider an investment visa. If you are not officially married your girlfriend also needs to invest the same amount. 

 

Try to convince ( pay ) a company to hire you to work in Thailand and get visa based on working in Thailand.

[maddox41]

If you have been  on 3 Ed visas  already  isn't a good idea . After 2 Ed visas they get suspicious?? As you can now only study 1 yr for thai language course but that rule changes every year. Also big joke  is going hard on Language schools at the moment     and saying your income is a  ecom Bussiness is a red flag  no working on a ed visa mate. If you have the cash elite visa all they way come in like a vip and with your tattoos the will probably think your a rock star. 

If you cant afford a elite visa  you could go go down  the Thai Bussiness visa route with a thai national. And considering you have a business already just legalise it here in Thailand. 

Best of luck hope you can sort  it all out 

 

[OZJAY]

1 hour ago, Time Traveller said:

the comments on this topic are mostly just ridiculous speculation. The only way to find out what the issue was (and i doubt there was one as he was let into the country after answering some typical questions) is to ask the immigration officers themselves. Which he didn't. So it seems silly to then come on here and ask strangers who have no clue what the issue was.

Remember, immigration officers are not there to be friendly. They are trained to make people feel uncomfortable to see how they react. Random people get selected and even told they can't stay in Thailand.  This happened to me once, even before they looked at my passport and work permit! Seems crazy, but everyone has the power to ask them questions. 

The speculation by some posters here that immigration suspected he was working makes no sense. How can anyone prove they are not working? You can't.

Thank you mate, you're spot on! The intention of the post was not to look for answers, but more so to give a heads up to anyone else in a similar situation who might assume they are doing everything by the books with regards to their ED visa.

 

I totally get the fact that immigration have a job to do, but one would think that when it came to people on an ED visa, in my case, 3rd ED visa here to study Thai, the primary subject of any screening process would be your ability to converse in Thai. 

 

I honestly don't believe that anyone that is using the ED visa to work illegally in Thailand takes their thai language study seriously, I might be wrong, but I doubt it.

 

Why didn't they even ask me for proof that I had an e-commerce business, that is registered in Australia and pays tax in Australia?

 

[BritTim]

7 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

The speculation by some posters here that immigration suspected he was working makes no sense. How can anyone prove they are not working? You can't.

It is certainly not certain knowledge, but it is known that Thai immigration is suspicious of people living long term on Non Ed visas, because many are working illegally. Perhaps, the OP is not (actually, the tattoos would likely make employment difficult) but it is the most likely reason for the desire of the official to deny entry.

 

To the OP: in future, if still on Non Ed visas, enter Thailand only visa friendly land crossings.

[JaiLai]

14 hours ago, Ned said:

If you have an income, don't you have to pay tax somewhere?

No.

 

I live in Thailand ( non O visa ) earn income outside Thailand where i'm also non resident ( various countries ), i've not paid tax for 22 years....

[LomSak27]

9 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

Random people get selected and even told they can't stay in Thailand.  This happened to me once, even before they looked at my passport and work permit! Seems crazy, but everyone has the power to ask them questions. 

Well for 16 years both living and working here post 2000, and another 5 years n the 1980's NO. Neither myself or co workers were selected and told they cannot stay in Thailand. Nor were there any stories told of such things. And believe me this is not because they were in a good mood that day. If your paperwork is in order That does not happen. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by LomSak27

[goegoe]

On 7/23/2018 at 10:36 PM, Paul944 said:

There are no cheap alternatives to replace the ED visa if you are below 50. 

 

The easiest, the Elite visa will cost about 1,3 million baht upfront, 260,000 baht each year for  2 adults and one child

 

Starting a company will require a 2 million baht investment capital and all the hassle of having a company (4 thai workers per foreigner on the pay list).No idea how you obtain a visa for your child based on this.

 

If you have over 10 million baht in savings you can consider an investment visa. If you are not officially married your girlfriend also needs to invest the same amount. 

 

Try to convince ( pay ) a company to hire you to work in Thailand and get visa based on working in Thailand.

 

He can also just find a Thai wife, it's so much easier and cheaper !

 

 

[goegoe]

18 hours ago, JaiLai said:

No.

 

I live in Thailand ( non O visa ) earn income outside Thailand where i'm also non resident ( various countries ), i've not paid tax for 22 years....

 

Welcome ! Never paid tax my whole life, and will never ! Can live anywhere, people are working for me where I need them and I can control everything online.

 

 

 

 

[JackThompson]

On 7/23/2018 at 11:55 AM, OZJAY said:

I then struck up a conversation with him in Thai and gave him the run down on where I study etc.. I also let him know, I live with my partner who is Russian, and we have an 18 month old baby who was born here in Thailand.. Within seconds of hearing all this, he turned and said to me "today you go home".

The IOs at the Bangkok airports and Poipet border crossing actively hate younger people living here longer-term - putting down roots - unless you have paid them off by buying an Elite Visa, of course, whereupon being a "long term tourist" becomes suddenly A-OK.  One or more ED Visas in ones passport and/or re-entry with an ED are often associated with hassles upon entry via air, per reports here.

 

To enter Thailand with an ED Visa hassle-free, never use the airports or Poipet.  If staying here for a longer period on Tourist Visas and/or Visa-Exempts - the same rule applies.  Also, be sure an have 20K Baht worth of cash, in both cases. 

 

Any land-border crossing other than Poipet is OK for entering with a valid ED or TR Visa (or re-entry for them).  As long as you can legally obtain your visa, you are OK entering at "safe" (i.e. "they follow the written rules") entry-points.

Edited July 29, 2018 by JackThompson