Major Change Eff 1 Apr 19 in Bangkok Bank ACH Transfers

[Pib]

8 hours ago, JDGRUEN said:

You don't have to keep any money in the Borderless Account.  For me it serves as a very short term parking place in movement of money. I get a Direct Deposit from a U.S. entity (SSA) or a transfer from a U.S. Bank.  Currently, I quickly decide how much of the USD will go to an American bank and how much is transferred to my Thai Bank (exchanged from USD to THB in the process). The balance can be zeroed out or some left for another destination.  The Borderless Account is just regular TransferWise with a "way station" to allow a bit to time to determine how much goes where. I got 31.85 Baht per Dollar last time and a low fee compared to the size of transfer. This method works (is useful) for some people and maybe not for others. There are several other companies one can choose from... Or just use your U.S. bank with online features.

Good post, JRGRUEN.  A short term parking place....a way station...that is a excellent way to describe how you are using the borderless account option. 

 

Can come in very handy if having issues in pulling or pushing money from your bank to fund a Transferwise transfer.....or maybe not even having a bank account to receive benefit payments like social security, military retirement, VA, etc., as the borderless account provides/creates a bank account for you...gives a routing and account number....call it your bank account account with Transferwise although the account is really with Transferwise's borderless account partner bank like the Community Federal Saving Bank in the U.S.

 

And it can lower the cost of the Transferwise transfer by just a little since Transferwise does not need to do an ACH Pull which they charge for.  Plus, it can speed-up a Transferwise transfer since money can be pulled from the Borderless account faster than from a bank.

 

Now I haven't activated the borderless account option on my Transferwise account because I really don't need it since I do infrequent Transferwise transfers, have my U.S. govt payments going to U.S. bank accounts, don't have a need to hold multiple currencies, etc., but for many a borderless account option is definitely a good thing.

 

 

[mackayae]

Is June 30 still the drop dead date for ACH transfers?

[Pib]

59 minutes ago, mackayae said:

Is June 30 still the drop dead date for ACH transfers?

That's their "latest line in the sand" I've seen which was in a letter they sent to some customers (I got one of those letters in the mail).  The letter said they would "try to continue allowing non-IAT payment thru 30 June.  But their website still says effective 1 April is when they would stop.

[JohnOFphon]

If anyone attempts to do a transfer after June 30..let us know if it worked or not..please.

[FredLee]

22 hours ago, JohnOFphon said:

If anyone attempts to do a transfer after June 30..let us know if it worked or not..please.

My next scheduled ach transfer is July 15, so if we don't hear anything before then I will post the results.

[Pib]

Looks like ACH transfers that are not in IAT format are still getting thru after 30 June which was Bangkok Bank's last line in the sand. 

 

See below posts...two TV poster announcing their ACH transfers initiated after 30 June got through/posted to their Bangkok Bank accounts.

 

 

 

[JohnOFphon]

This is what I hear every time I walk by a Bangkok Bank branch.

[rexall]

I realize this is an old thread, and this info is slightly off-topic. However, recently I and several others I know of who have been using TransferWise have had their deposits to Bangkok Bank show as SMART (local) deposits.  Previously, they were showing as "International Transfer" which is what those of use who must demonstrate offshore income to immigration need. I read a long time ago that this was a possibility.  There doesn't seem to be any way to avoid this or to determine which deposits will show up as local.  I wrote to TW the other day, however I think it highly unlikely they will provide any useful info.

Of course, during visa renewal, you can always present your TW receipts showing the funds originated offshore and cross reference them with the SMART deposits on you bank statement.  However, I am not optimistic that would go over very well without some specific prior word from IMM that it is OK.

[Langsuan Man]

Please keep these notifications coming

 

Eventually Bangkok Bank is going to stop processing these EFTS and since they are not reliable we can only trust each other

 

I am wondering what happens to the member who's funds get lost in limbo, when the ban does finally kick in 

[soisanuk]

11 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

Please keep these notifications coming

 

Eventually Bangkok Bank is going to stop processing these EFTS and since they are not reliable we can only trust each other

 

I am wondering what happens to the member who's funds get lost in limbo, when the ban does finally kick in 

If I recall correctly, Bangkok Bank said the transfer would be rejected and funds returned - of course, that will probably take a day or few -- but, I doubt the funds will be in "limbo" for any great length of time -- but, do agree that Bangkok Bank will at some point have to stop accepting "domestic" ACH transfers and accept only those in "IAT" format.

[Pib]

12 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

I am wondering what happens to the member who's funds get lost in limbo, when the ban does finally kick in 

The transfer will just be rejected at/by Bangkok Bank "New York"....bounce right back to the sending bank in a day or two.

[Berkshire]

Just wanted to share that I too sent an ACH on 3 July and just received in Thailand today 8 July.  Normally an ACH sent on a Wednesday would be received here Friday, but I'm sure the 4th of July holiday had something to do with the delay. 

 

Having said that, I'm also not sure what will happen with BKK Bank NY and the IAT situation going forward.  But for now, still the same as before. 

Edited July 8, 2019 by Berkshire

[coconut]

sent ACH transfer from my credit union yesterday 8 July, deposited to spouse account 09:04 today 9 July.  Baht 30.65

[Pib]

I noticed the National Automated Clearing House Assn (NACHA) which works with the US Treasury to set money transfer rules posted a 23 Apr 2019 article talking IAT.  From the article you would think it was something brand new, although IAT has been around for around a decade...incrementally being implemented....modified...etc. 

 

I wonder if there has been some late breaking change making it easier for a "Gateway operation/bank" which is what the Bangkok Bank New York branch is when it comes to ACH transfers from a person's US bank to their in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch.   Just seems strange they would post an Apr 2019 article talking a decade's old IAT process unless there has been some recent major change, some milestone reached, etc.   In the article RDFI stands for Receiving Depository Financial Institution (i.e., the receiving bank).

 

https://www.nacha.org/content/international-ach-transactions-iats

Edited July 9, 2019 by Pib

[JimGant]

Pib,

What's more interesting is the 'related article' on ISO 20020. Looks like this will become the international messaging standard for cross-border and domestic financial transfers:

Quote

The first focus of ISO 20022 is on international (cross-border) financial communication between financial institutions, their clients and the domestic or international 'market infrastructures' involved in the processing of financial transactions. There is, however, a strong opportunity to use ISO 20022 for the development of new domestic financial messages as well, thereby streamlining all communications for financial institutions.

So, if you can manage to read through the tons of literature on this, wire transfers will convert to ISO 20020 next year, while ACH transactions will only become *integrated* at first -- and maybe never converted, explain several study groups, including NACHA. But, such integration should allow, I would think, for the elimination of having one's sending bank try and figure out whether their ACH transfer is domestic or international -- let the gateway bank unravel all of this, using their ISO 20022 software and data bank.

 

Quote

By “integration,” we mean that the ACH Network will support industry tools and solutions that allow ACH users to leverage the ISO 20022 payment message standard for both electronic payments initiation and remittance using the current U.S. ACH formats with the support of the NACHA Operating Rules. This means entities that want to use ISO 20022 will have a way to translate “ACH to ISO” and “ISO to ACH” for both incoming and outgoing payments

 

Anyway, we're far enough along with this that maybe the Feds are using Bangkok Bank as a beta platform -- after all, it's only one cross-border operation (i.e., to Thailand) involving ACH. Good, simple test platform.

 

Hope Bangkok Bank speaks up soon....

[mackayae]

Two friends made bank to bank transfers this week thru BBL NY and received them in their thai accounts. I decided to bite the bullet and initiated a transfer Monday. Have not received it yet.

 

[Date Masamune]

Initiated last week received today. Maybe a day or two longer due 7/4 Holiday?

 

No change, 44 page comments, consider the matter closed.

 

Route :Charles Schwab Bank Checking (ACH)- BBL NY - My home branch of Bangkok Bank, Chianng Mai.

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Date Masamune

[Langsuan Man]

12 hours ago, Date Masamune said:

 

No change, 44 page comments, consider the matter closed.

 

 

It ain't over till the fat lady sings, you just don't know when will be her last aria 

[mackayae]

Just received my ACH transfer which I had initiated on Monday.

[JimGant]

Latest goal post location:

 

Quote

Hi,
It was my understanding that domestic ACH transactions through Bangkok Bank NY, which would be forwarded to
accounts in Thailand, were to terminate as of June 30, 
2019. However, many of us here in Thailand have successfully used this service *AFTER* June 30. And these
transactions were NOT IAT coded transactions.

Question: Is there a new termination date for non IAT 
transactions? If so, when? Also, if an ACH transaction finally becomes rejected by Bangkok Bank NY, will the 
money be quickly returned -- or will there be a delay 
of some kind?

Thank you.

Quote

Dear valued customer,

Reference to your enquiry, we have been advise from New York branch (NYB) that NYB will start returning non-IAT transactions from September 1, 2019.  For direct deposit from government, state, city and private pension, NYB will start returning in January 2020.  In case that NYB returns the transactions, the remitter should receive it within the next business day, however, it's depended on their procedure on when they will credit funds back to their customer's account.

Should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us. You can also contact our phone banking center at +66-2645-5555 (from the overseas) or 1333 (from within Thailand), a 24/7 service to acquire more information. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Web operations

 

[Pib]

Alrighty....two new lines in the sand....one line for personal transfers from banks....another line for govt/private pension payments. 

 

My gut tells me these lines will indeed be the final line in sands which will be turned into high & thick walls (would make Donald salivate) to reject non-IAT transfers.....and standing on the wall will be the fat lady singing.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2019 by Pib

[Pib]

Had a thought today that come 1 Sep 2019 when non-IAT personal transfers are suppose to be rejected but govt/private pension non-IAT payments still allowed till 1 Jan 2020 that Bangkok Bank may have a hard time distinguishing between a personal transfer from your financial institution or your financial institution sending you a periodic IRA/401K/pension payment since you happen to have your retirement account(s) with the same bank.

 

Whether you were initiating transfer or the bank the Standard Entry Class code would still be PPD for Prearrange Payment and Deposit.   And the sender would still be your bank with your name thrown in somewhere.   The Standard Entry Class code of IAT would not be in play since it would not be an ACH IAT payment but an ACH domestic payment.   This will probably make it hard for Bangkok Bank New York to distinguish between a personal and govt/private pension payment....would probably require manual review.  

 

So, it will not surprise me that come 1 Sep 2019 that we will see reports of a person's bank non-IAT transfer still getting thru up until 1 Jan 2020. 

 

Now come 1 Jan 2020 Bangkok Bank New York only needs to look for the Standard Entry Class code of IAT as that code is the only code allowed on an ACH "IAT" transfer.   No IAT code; transfer rejected....computer can do all of that will no manual/human review required.

 

 

 

[Shoprowhouse13]

Had my two on line ACH transfers from my US based bank to BBL in New York (c/o BBL domestic sub-branch account in Thailand) rejected back the same day Friday 2 Aug; return remarks per my bank was ACH number was incomplete. Had several similar transfers go through no problem on 31 July. Maybe the day has arrived for non-IAT rejects?

[Pib]

2 hours ago, Shoprowhouse13 said:

Had my two on line ACH transfers from my US based bank to BBL in New York (c/o BBL domestic sub-branch account in Thailand) rejected back the same day Friday 2 Aug; return remarks per my bank was ACH number was incomplete. Had several similar transfers go through no problem on 31 July. Maybe the day has arrived for non-IAT rejects?

 

Could be....although BBL did say 1 Sep 2019 for such bank transfers (but 1 Jan 2020 for govt/private pension transfers) was suppose to be the date.  But ever since their 1 Apr 2019 deadline was passed they also said that they would "try" to continue to allow non-IAT format transfers until 1 Sep 19/1 Jan 20.  With that "try" word thrown to me that mean they might have to close the door earlier....and closing the door on the first day of a new month would probably be likely.

 

Were these rejected transfers done using an ibanking transfer link "you already had setup?"   Repeat, already setup.   I expect they were but just need to ask. 

 

If already setup then the routing number and account number were already correct in the transfer link and would not have been something you could have entered incorrectly/incompletely.   

 

When ACH transfer are rejected the rejecting bank uses ACH Return Codes like R01 to R85.    Based on your description of "ACH Number Was Incomplete" it sounds like it might have been reject code R13 quoted below.  

Quote

ACH Return Code R13 – Invalid ACH routing number
Description: Entry contains a receiving DRI identification or gateway identification that is not a valid ACH routing number    

 

 

Normally if an ACH transaction is being rejected due to an "International ACH Transaction" format error then code R80 thru R85 would be used.

Quote

ACH Return Code R80 – IAT entry coding errors
ACH Return Code R81 – Non-participant in IAT program

ACH Return Code R82 – Invalid foreign receiving DFI identification
ACH Return Code R83 – Foreign receiving DFI unable to settle
ACH Return Code R84 – Entry not processed by gateway
ACH Return Code R85 – Incorrectly coded outbound international payment

 

 

And by chance where you said, "Had my two on line ACH transfers from my US based..." if you meant trial/micro deposit like in setting up a new transfer link, BBL started rejecting new ACH transfer links mid 2018.

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Pib

[ThaiBob]

ACH transfer on August 1st posted to my Thai BB account on August 2.  This might be last transfer using this method? 

Edited August 4, 2019 by ThaiBob

[Shoprowhouse13]

Two long established accounts that I had been transferring money to for years; sent money on 31 July and had no problems. The person I was on line chatting with was an after hours help desk person that just made that statement about routing number. I'll call tomorrow stateside time and ask the normal day crew whats going on. Thanks for the R series codes; nice to know what I need to drill them for when I have someone on the phone. 

[richsilver]

I received my funds into Bangkok Bank via ACH this morning.

[lopburi3]

16 minutes ago, richsilver said:

I received my funds into Bangkok Bank via ACH this morning.

In what context?  From a US Bank?  Transfer requested date?

[Berkshire]

I just received my monthly ACH through BKK Bank NY, sent 2 Aug, received 6 Aug.  August appears to be ok for personal non-IAT....for now.

[Tracechain]

This may or may not be relative and perhaps even covered elsewhere but on my last Transferwise transfer, I noticed that they have added as one of the reasons for your transfer, 'Funds for long term stay in Thailand'.   The deposit showed international transfer but then again most of my other ones did as well.  I had submitted this recommendation on one of their questionnaires I received from them.   Again apologizes if this is out of place or belongs in another post somewhere.