Major Change Eff 1 Apr 19 in Bangkok Bank ACH Transfers

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 8/31/2019 at 6:13 PM, Pib said:

Here's TallGuyJohninBKK talking doing a domestic wire to Bangkok Bank back in March....he did one....I think he did it from Schwab.

 

 

 

And below is the ending pgh of my post that Pib has quoted and linked to above:

 

Quote

PS - BTW, the specific advice I got from the NY Branch staff regarding U.S. domestic wires being sent to the NY Branch and then onward to Thailand was for the senders, like you and me, to list our Thailand address and country for the recipient information. And if the sending entity's wire transfer setup doesn't specifically require that kind of info, my contact encouraged us to include the Thailand address information in some other area, such as in under "Remarks" or "Directions" etc etc.

 

[srowndedbyh2o]

14 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Schwab domestic wires sent to BKKB NY for forwarding onward to a Thai BKKB account work just fine. You're entering the ABA/routing number for BKKB NY as the recipient, and the sender's full Thai BKKB account number as the receiving account.

 

Isn’t the wire fee with Schwab the same for international wire as domestic wire? Is there an advantage to doing a domestic wire with Schwab?

With an international wire, there may be a fee at the receiving bank in Thailand, but at least you’d skip the BKK BK NY fee.

I’m just asking, as I’ve never done a money wire with Schwab.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

Isn’t the wire fee with Schwab the same for international wire as domestic wire? Is there an advantage to doing a domestic wire with Schwab?

With an international wire, there may be a fee at the receiving bank in Thailand, but at least you’d skip the BKK BK NY fee.

I’m just asking, as I’ve never done a money wire with Schwab.

 

I believe BKKB TH charges the same fee on the receiving end, 0.25%, regardless of whether it's a straight international wire or a domestic wire forwarded from their NY branch.

 

As for Schwab, if you have I believe a greater than $100K balance with them, they provide a perk of 3 free domestic wire transfers per quarter, or in other words, you could do one domestic wire per month.  Without that, I believe they're normally charged $25 per. They don't offer any free international wires that I'm aware of, at least, for their U.S. accounts.

 

[Somewhere In Time]

To expand on the fantastic historical info TallGuyJohnInBKK and Pib have been providing over the past few days, I too have had email exchanges with Arthlyn George (Lyn) from Bangkok Bank's New York Branch.  

 

On August 14, 2019, I received the following reply with 2 attachments from Lyn:

 

Dear Mr

We would like to give our valuable customers enough time to make the necessary arrangements so funds would be transferred to their accounts without any delay.

After September 2019, there are two available options for transferring funds to your account in Thailand.

Any payments that we are unable to process will be returned to the ordering bank.

Please see the options attached.

The remittance application is also attached if you choose to use our remittance services.

Please do not hesitate to contact me at (212)329-9273 if you have any further questions.

Regards
Lyn
 

Upon seeking clarification as to the exact day the ACH method will be terminated, I received the following reply from Lyn on August 16, 2019 (post #664 of this topic informed of the Sept 6 2019 date):

 

Dear Mr

After Sept 6 2019 , Bangkok Bank New York branch will not  process ACH transactions that do not have the Standard Class Entry (SEC)  code IAT (international ACH Transaction).

As for the website, the details are still been worked on.  I will convey that information to the appropriate person.

Regards

Lyn

 

Now September, they certainly have not shown any urgency in updating their website, even after my prodding, and all of your collective prodding since early 2019!  Too bad, as it would be easy to post all of this info on their website to eliminate any confusion for interested customers.

 

Hope this helps.

 

SIT

 

2 Options for transferring funds for internet banking customer.doc Remittance Application(fillable)_Apr2019.pdf

[Pib]

2 hours ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

Isn’t the wire fee with Schwab the same for international wire as domestic wire? Is there an advantage to doing a domestic wire with Schwab?

With an international wire, there may be a fee at the receiving bank in Thailand, but at least you’d skip the BKK BK NY fee.

I’m just asking, as I’ve never done a money wire with Schwab.

Yes, the Schwab domestic and international wire fees are now both $25.   Up until a few months ago their domestic fee was lower at $20.   And yes again, if using Schwab it would be better just to do an international wire to bypass the Bangkok Bank NY fee.   However, but, if you have more than $100K in assets with Schwab you get three free domestic wire transfers per quarter.

 

For most US banks the international wire fee is significantly higher than their domestic wire fee.  Like USAA charges $45 for an int'l wire but $20 for a domestic wire.  Navy Federal Credit Union is int'l at $25 and domestic at $14.  Chase Bank is int'l at $40 and domestic at $25. 

 

But even with those limited examples if you then add-in the Bangkok Bank NY fee of $5 or $10 for typical amounts transferred to the domestic wire fee in some cases you may not be saving a lot over the international wire. 

 

Now for me, when/if I do a domestic wire transfer I probably use the St Dept Federal Credit Union which offers a $6 domestic wire fee for Emeritus members (which I am), $20 normal domestic wire, and $30 normal int'l wire.   Being able to do a $6 domestic wire is a good deal.

[Pib]

13 minutes ago, Somewhere In Time said:

To expand on the fantastic historical info TallGuyJohnInBKK and Pib have been providing over the past few days, I too have had email exchanges with Arthlyn George (Lyn) from Bangkok Bank's New York Branch.  

 

On August 14, 2019, I received the following reply with 2 attachments from Lyn:

 

Dear Mr

We would like to give our valuable customers enough time to make the necessary arrangements so funds would be transferred to their accounts without any delay.

After September 2019, there are two available options for transferring funds to your account in Thailand.

Any payments that we are unable to process will be returned to the ordering bank.

Please see the options attached.

The remittance application is also attached if you choose to use our remittance services.

Please do not hesitate to contact me at (212)329-9273 if you have any further questions.

Regards
Lyn
 

Upon seeking clarification as to the exact day the ACH method will be terminated, I received the following reply from Lyn on August 16, 2019 (post #664 of this topic informed of the Sept 6 2019 date):

 

Dear Mr

After Sept 6 2019 , Bangkok Bank New York branch will not  process ACH transactions that do not have the Standard Class Entry (SEC)  code IAT (international ACH Transaction).

As for the website, the details are still been worked on.  I will convey that information to the appropriate person.

Regards

Lyn

 

Now September, they certainly have not shown any urgency in updating their website, even after my prodding, and all of your collective prodding since early 2019!  Too bad, as it would be easy to post all of this info on their website to eliminate any confusion for interested customers.

 

Hope this helps.

 

SIT

 

2 Options for transferring funds for internet banking customer.doc 88 kB · 8 downloads Remittance Application(fillable)_Apr2019.pdf 994.82 kB · 7 downloads

 

Good info....good to see very recent docs/feedback from the NY branch.

 

And anyone using their Thai Baht Remittance Service option would have to be desperate IMO.  Below is my evaluation of their Thai Baht Remittance Service back on 25 April.

 

 

[mania]

On 8/21/2019 at 5:28 PM, Pib said:

 

 

 

Well that didn't take long 555

but I finally got an answer about a transfer I did from Cap 1 USA to BKB NY on Aug 1st 2019

 

It had gone  thru fine so I asked BKB what format was it transferred in as I have another in motion & it should finally be complete tomorrow

Took awhile to get a reply as they had to forward it to some department..........

But here is BKB's reply...

 

Quote

Please be informed that your recent transaction came in at SEC/WEB or so called a domestic ACH transaction. We advise you that if the transaction could not be made in the International ACH transaction or IAT format.You need to make the international funds transfer via Swift using Bangkok Bank Swift address of 'BKKBTHBK' in the transaction to your account in Thailand.
We apologize for any inconvenience that has occurred.
Best regards,
Bualuang iBanking

 

But again that transfer went thru fine & we will see if tomorrows transaction does also

Edited September 3, 2019 by mania

[Pib]

Partial quote from the Bkk  Bk Reply above

Quote

Please be informed that your recent transaction came in at SEC/WEB or so called a domestic ACH transaction.

 

Bank talk saying the Standard Entry Class (SEC) code was "WEB" vs the required "IAT."   WEB means internet-initiated transfer (a.k.a., initiated from ibanking).   There are various SEC codes for a domestic transfer....probably the most common one is PPD.   This link show common domestic ACH transfer codes. 

 

While an IAT transfer could also be initiated from ibanking that can only occur if the bank sends in IAT format which to date we haven't seen/confirmed any can for retail accounts....instead, they either just send in domestic format or use Wire (SWIFT).

 

It's going to be very easy for Bkk Bk to determine if an ACH transfer is using IAT format....and that easy method is by simply looking at the code in the SEC field....if the code is not "IAT" then the transfer gets rejected.   

 

 

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, mania said:

We advise you that if the transaction could not be made in the International ACH transaction or IAT format.You need to make the international funds transfer via Swift using Bangkok Bank Swift address of 'BKKBTHBK' in the transaction to your account in Thailand.

Wait a minute.... here they're saying your workaround from ACH is doing an international (SWIFT) wire. In a previous breath (and probably different author) they said you could do a domestic wire....... So, of course, an international wire is an option...but is this response now somehow precluding the domestic wire option? Hmmmm.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Wait a minute.... here they're saying your workaround from ACH is doing an international (SWIFT) wire. In a previous breath (and probably different author) they said you could do a domestic wire....... So, of course, an international wire is an option...but is this response now somehow precluding the domestic wire option? Hmmmm.

 

No... domestic wires to BKKB NY for forwarding on to TH are fine.

 

The excerpted answer above was coming from some generic customer service staff here in TH at BKKB online banking -- who are not the folks anyone wants to be talking to about the details of BKKB NY forwarding transactions.

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Berkshire]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

Wait a minute.... here they're saying your workaround from ACH is doing an international (SWIFT) wire. In a previous breath (and probably different author) they said you could do a domestic wire....... So, of course, an international wire is an option...but is this response now somehow precluding the domestic wire option? Hmmmm.

 

No... domestic wires to BKKB NY for forwarding on to TH are fine.

 

The excerpted answer above was coming from some generic customer service staff here in TH at BKKB online banking -- who are not the folks anyone wants to be talking to about the details of BKKB NY forwarding transactions.

You are correct.  I just sent a domestic wire through BKK Bank NY last week and it got through to Thailand the next day. 

[mania]

For the record Capital One Bank to NY BKB via domestic ACH transaction all done online did also go through today

to BKB Thailand

 

So that was one on August 7th & one today September 3rd

 

[Pib]

Sure wish I knew why Bkk Bk is rejecting some non-IAT transfers but not other non-IAT transfers.  Like how USAA transfers are being rejected based on three reports but not Cap1 transfers based on two reports even though the Cap1 transfers were confirmed to not be in IAT format by Bkk Bk NY.

 

Maybe it's due to minor ACH file format differences banks can use to transmit ACH transfers as some file format data fields are Mandatory, Required, or Optional.  "Required" in this case really means not required to be completed by the sending bank but the ACH operator (i.e., clearing house...middleman) or receiving bank may require it otherwise the transfer will be rejected.   Mandatory meaning it's a must on the sending, middle, and receiving ends.  Optional self-explanatory.

 

But for now I'll stick to my earlier guess that Bkk Bk NY is "randomly" reviewing with human eyes ACH transfers and if a random selection happens to be non-IAT format then it gets rejected.  If the transfer is allowed to process through automatically with no human eyes review then the non-IAT transfer gets through.  But as mentioned that's just a guess on my part.

 

Based on Somewhere in Time's 16 Aug post (see below) where Bkk Bk told him that they will not process personal non-IAT transfers after 6 Sep I guess we really need to wait and see what happens to non-IAT transfers initiated on/after 7 Sep....see if Bkk Bk enforces that line in the sand 100% or still lets some non-IAT transfers through. 

 

 

 

[Somewhere In Time]

Yeah Pib, I agree it sure is frustrating trying to interpret whatever calculus Bangkok Bank's New York Branch is/are using on these non-IAT ACH transactions in the interim, as we rapidly approach Friday, September 6th.

 

I just checked their website and you guessed it...no new info there.

 

My latest non-IAT ACH transaction indeed just posted to my BBL savings account here a few hours ago (September 4th).  It was initiated online late-evening on Friday, Aug 30th here (late-morning Aug 30th in NYC).  The ACH payment was changed from "pending" to "posted" at COB Aug 30th in my NFCU account.  It was another seamless transaction (w/the expected Labor Day weekend delay) using this service!  And, having already checked with them directly, I can confirm NFCU does not use IAT formatting and has no plans to introduce it in the near-future.

 

Appreciative their service still works for me, I just sent an email to Lyn at Bangkok Bank's New York Branch stating as such.  I asked if Friday, September 6th is still firm and if not, what is the latest update they have on the new date they will be using?  Assuming I get a reply, it may/will be an interesting read ~

 

SIT      

[mania]

10 hours ago, Pib said:

Sure wish I knew why Bkk Bk is rejecting some non-IAT transfers but not other non-IAT transfers.  Like how USAA transfers are being rejected based on three reports but not Cap1 transfers based on two reports even though the Cap1 transfers were confirmed to not be in IAT format by Bkk Bk NY.

 

Agreed & to be honest after BKB's note that the Aug trans was not in IAT format  I was surprised the Sept trans went thru. I fully expected it would be returned.

Maybe as you mentioned I just got in under the Sept 6th deadline .

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by mania

[asiaexpat]

23 hours ago, mania said:

For the record Capital One Bank to NY BKB via domestic ACH transaction all done online did also go through today

to BKB Thailand

 

So that was one on August 7th & one today September 3rd

 

My ACH from USAA to BBL NY was returned to my USAA account last week.

[lopburi3]

7 minutes ago, asiaexpat said:

My ACH from USAA to BBL NY was returned to my USAA account last week.

Appears they may have had USAA flagged for checks.

 

Now USAA just changed my terms of service (after answering very detailed financial/foreign transfer questions) to only make money available on second workday after deposit.  So OPM Deposit made on August 30 was not released to Transferwise until 4 September US time.

[Jingthing]

Here's an interesting and probably wrong theory.

Perhaps they are screening ACH transfers from a firm like USAA more scrumptiously because it's has some governmental connection and this is about following U.S. government rules?

In any case, now we're entering the phase where their supposed to be blocking all ACH transfers without international format.

So let's see who they block or don't block now.

Presumably definitely USAA will be blocked. 

 

[Langsuan Man]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Here's an interesting and probably wrong theory.

Perhaps they are screening ACH transfers from a firm like USAA more scrumptiously because it's has some governmental connection and this is about following U.S. government rules?

In any case, now we're entering the phase where their supposed to be blocking all ACH transfers without international format.

So let's see who they block or don't block now.

Presumably definitely USAA will be blocked. 

 

USAA is different than most banks in that they don't go to the Federal reserve for cash.  They don't pay the overnight lending rate because they are a cash rich company and self fund so that FED stop is not used by them. So that is probably the reason they were targeted first. They have no government connection other than being licensed like all other banks  

 

I can request a transfer from another bank account for up to $5,000 a day and if I make it through USAA the money is available instantly, even if it takes a couple of days to leave the third party account. 

 

Seems like the new quest is going to be to find which US Banks charge the lowest for domestic wires

 

Unfortunately I don't think anyone is going to beat Fidelity's free International Wires , if you can jump through their hoops 

[Jingthing]

For long settled expats there are very few new U.S. based accounts that we are even able to open. An exception is SDFCU. That's a reason I suggest people planning on expatriating open more accounts than they need before moving. Over time, policies change, firms go out of business or merge, etc. Also some firms may discover you're an expat and not want to do business with you anymore. Even firms that seem expat friendly today may not be the same later. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Jingthing

[Pib]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

For long settled expats there are very few new U.S. based accounts that we are even able to open. An exception is SDFCU. That's a reason I suggest people planning on expatriating open more accounts than they need before moving. Over time, policies change, firms go out of business or merge, etc. 

Amen brother!!!  You never know when a bank will change some policy/practice which makes expat banking with them hard to do.   

 

And sometimes a person might get an out-of-the-blue notice their account with a bank or brokerage is being closed.  Like how kuma and others have started to get notices their brokerage accounts with Schwab Singapore will be closed by year's end due to the Schwab Singapore office closing.  See below post in another thread and the ensuing posts talking the Schwab Singapore office.

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Pib

[Jingthing]

Personally I went crazy opening accounts before I moved here. All those bad scenarios have happened to me so I've lost over half my accounts. So it doesn't seem so crazy now. This was before I was aware of SDFCU. I'm not sure how many years that they've been so expat friendly but I opened an account with them from abroad.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Pib]

17 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

Seems like the new quest is going to be to find which US Banks charge the lowest for domestic wires

 

 

A low domestic wire fee if an Emeritus member with SDFCU is one of several reasons I opened an acct with them.  But the main reason is SDFCU is a known expat friendly bank and will open accounts (bank and credit card) using your foreign address which is what I used.

 

https://www.sdfcu.org/member-exclusive

[JimGant]

FREE travelers cheques! Any toasters? ????

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

 

A low domestic wire fee if an Emeritus member with SDFCU is one of several reasons I opened an acct with them.  But the main reason is SDFCU is a known expat friendly bank and will open accounts (bank and credit card) using your foreign address which is what I used.

 

https://www.sdfcu.org/member-exclusive

Thanks. I wasn't aware of that and I already have an account there and am qualified. The draw is the domestic wires. Their international wires are 30 dollars. Not horrible if you don't do often. I recently did my first SWIFT wire with them and it was painless. Online of course. Not all U.S. banks support online SWIFT and some of them require in branch registration first. The worse part about SDFCU is their 1 percent foreign transaction fee. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Jingthing

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The worse part about SDFCU is their 1 percent foreign transaction fee. 

Yea, their "debit" card was not one my reasons for opening a SDFCU since it carries a 1% foreign transaction fee.  When I got the card I used it once to make a low baht amount purchase just to make sure it worked...it did....the card now lives in the darkness of my safe.   Now their "credit" cards do not have a foreign transaction fee.

[mania]

20 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

Seems like the new quest is going to be to find which US Banks charge the lowest for domestic wires

Of course I do not know if it will continue but I have used Capital One online to transfer to Thailand for over 8 years & it has always been free

It is a little slow averaging 3-5 business days but once initiated same day in Thailand

But if like me you transfer from another bank into Cap One then to BKB NY it can take a good 6 business days total...But all free regardless of Cap One balance

 

Of course Bangkok bank NY then charges $5 ( $100-$2000 transferred) $10 ($2001-$50,000)

Then Thailand receiving branch charges 0.25% of the transfer value (minimum 200 baht,maximum 500 baht)

 

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by mania

[Pib]

26 minutes ago, mania said:

Of course I do not know if it will continue but I have used Capital One online to transfer to Thailand for over 8 years & it has always been free

It is a little slow averaging 3-5 business days but once initiated same day in Thailand

But if like me you transfer from another bank into Cap One then to BKB NY it can take a good 6 business days total...But all free regardless of Cap One balance

 

Of course Bangkok bank NY then charges $5 ( $100-$2000 transferred) $10 ($2001-$50,000)

Then Thailand receiving branch charges 0.25% of the transfer value (minimum 200 baht,maximum 500 baht)

 

 

I think you are talking "ACH Transfers" where Langsuan Man was talking Domestic "Wire."

 

However, Cap1 does have online domestic wire capability also at $30. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Pib

[Alotoftravel]

Update ;

via capital one ach , submitted sep 4.

bkk receipt sep 6.

[Pib]

Based on Bkk Bk last stated line in the sand of 6 Sep for personal bank transfers if will be interesting to see what happens to ACH transfers initiated on 7 Sep and later.