Another new tax on wine?

[dick dasterdly]

19 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

My wife and I enjoy happy hour together for years.  Until about 4 years ago that consisted of several bottles of Leo.  One night about 1/2 way through the first glass we looked at each other with the same thought:  Why are we drinking this piss?  That's when we changed to box wine Mont Clair from RSA which is probably at the low end of "good" but it's definitely not bad and a lot cheaper than most of the crap that is sold for 800-1000 baht for 750 ml.  In California, a very good wine can be had for 300-400 baht.  But yeah, I don't know if something changed with the domestic beer or maybe tastes change with age but I find them all to be not much better than piss these days.

Know what you mean as I too used to enjoy a couple of beers (Tiger or Singha) - a few years ago.....

 

Like you, I'm not sure whether it is my 'tastes' that have changed, or the taste of the beer.

[topt]

44 minutes ago, Dick Crank said:

there are exceptions and maybe you just like wine, but thats rare

I would have to completely disagree with you there.

Have a look at the links I provided a few posts ago (#55) and see the many different posters who presumably enjoy wine.......

 

What do you have against people who like tennis? 

[Dick Crank]

1 hour ago, topt said:

I would have to completely disagree with you there.

Have a look at the links I provided a few posts ago (#55) and see the many different posters who presumably enjoy wine.......

 

What do you have against people who like tennis? 

people who like tennis want to be seen drinking a fine wine for a match, and would not be caught seen drinking a cheap beer during a match

[topt]

1 minute ago, Dick Crank said:

people who like tennis want to be seen drinking a fine wine for a match, and would not be caught seen drinking a cheap beer during a match

Sorry but this time I just call rubbish on that statement - or you are trolling.........

Would have to be champagne or Pimms................

[wgdanson]

On 8/1/2018 at 9:47 AM, KittenKong said:

one could buy 8 litres of Mont Claire for 1200B

WHY OH WHY

[wgdanson]

On 8/2/2018 at 11:27 AM, owl sees all said:

Stop all the whining and make your own wine in just 5 minutes and for as little as 50 bhat a litre.

Totally correct, been doing it for years. Bring some grape juice concentrates and wine yeasts back with you next time, mix with 3 or 4 litres Tipco or Mallee red grape juice, 500gms sugar, packet of yeast. Two weeks later.....hey presto, Mont Claire can go.

[HAKAPALITA]

On 8/2/2018 at 11:56 AM, Dick Crank said:

never got the attraction of wine in thailand

 

used to have a neighbor in cm who was very into wine. he sat in an aircon bungalow all day and went out in the evenings to expensive places with wine trying to pretend he was in another country. he also liked tennis, go figure

 

just not a good fit for those into wine culture which usually goes with the wine thing. but since your complaining about duties im not sure this applies to you, there are exceptions and maybe you just like wine, but thats rare

 

last i heard the neighbor relocated to portugal & paris and loves it there. the door kicked him in the arse on the way out!

Probably left because living next to a Peasant got too much.

[kevc]

Think their trying to push the sugar water they call Thai wine.

Sent from my SM-P901 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bankruatsteve]

I for, I hope not, one will quit buying wine in this country until the fat *@&#^ who keep dreaming up ways to cheat farangs who just want to live here in peace and harmony realize "oh that was a bad idea".  I hope everyone will join me and refuse to pay this repugnant tax.

[xylophone]

On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 11:34 AM, bankruatsteve said:

There are a few "fine" wines sold in box including your French Bordeaux.

Have to disagree with that comment...……..never seen good/fine wine sold in a cask, more so if it is French.

 

Vins de pays d'oc perhaps and the occasional Cotes du Rhone in France, but never seen it here.

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

55 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Have to disagree with that comment...……..never seen good/fine wine sold in a cask, more so if it is French.

 

Vins de pays d'oc perhaps and the occasional Cotes du Rhone in France, but never seen it here.

 

 

I don't know about Thailand.  There are several Bordeaux sold in box containers in France/Europe.  And, you must know that Bordeaux is a region in France that labels 100's of wines ranging from very fine to (most likely) very crap.

[xylophone]

15 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

I don't know about Thailand.  There are several Bordeaux sold in box containers in France/Europe.  And, you must know that Bordeaux is a region in France that labels 100's of wines ranging from very fine to (most likely) very crap.

No good/fine wine will be put in cask/boxes because:-

 

--Good/fine wines often throw sediment, and a box would not allow decanting etc, so cloudy wine is the result.

--Tests have proven that the cask material (plastic/aluminium looking stuff) allows an ingress of air over time so the wine eventually spoils. That is why the recommended max time/age for cask wine is 2 yrs.

 

Any French wine sold in boxes is meant for immediate/short life drinking and is not considered good/fine wine.

 

Anyway the thread started because of a "supposed new wine tax" but no-one knows if this is true or not...…..as others have suggested, maybe late application/old stock or lost in translation??

[sirocco]

Hello,

I have not yet seen "good, real French wines" in cubes.
But, I did not look everywhere.
In France, the wines that are sold in cubes, were mostly bought by the peppers, the drunkards and / or those who did not appreciate the wine, but only the taste of alcohol.It is drink, to drink.
It's a shame, because good wine, like quality food, are noble things. And we must treat them as such.
And it's better to drink than a glass of good wine at a meal, than piquette, just because it's cheaper.
A bit like a good bread that sings when you bite in it.
This one, I have not found it yet, in Thailand.
 

[bankruatsteve]

14 hours ago, xylophone said:

No good/fine wine will be put in cask/boxes because:-

 

--Good/fine wines often throw sediment, and a box would not allow decanting etc, so cloudy wine is the result.

--Tests have proven that the cask material (plastic/aluminium looking stuff) allows an ingress of air over time so the wine eventually spoils. That is why the recommended max time/age for cask wine is 2 yrs.

 

Any French wine sold in boxes is meant for immediate/short life drinking and is not considered good/fine wine.

 

Anyway the thread started because of a "supposed new wine tax" but no-one knows if this is true or not...…..as others have suggested, maybe late application/old stock or lost in translation??

[mogandave]

Nothing like a good cardbordeaux...

[xylophone]

On 8/12/2018 at 7:37 AM, bankruatsteve said:

I rest my case, or should I say box...……..these are every day drinkers and not considered good/fine wines. Meant to be drunk young and not stored.

 

The sort you can buy in the French Hypermarkets in Calais (bulk buying) and some supermarkets for immediate drinking.

 

Remember these key pointers:- 

 

No good/fine wine will be put in cask/boxes because:-

-Good/fine wines often throw sediment, and a box would not allow decanting etc, so cloudy wine is the result.

--Tests have proven that the cask material (plastic/aluminium looking stuff) allows an ingress of air over time so the wine eventually spoils. That is why the recommended max time/age for cask wine is 2 yrs.

 

Any French wine sold in boxes is meant for immediate/short life drinking and is not considered good/fine wine.

[mogandave]

On 8/12/2018 at 10:44 AM, xylophone said:

I rest my case, or should I say box...……..these are every day drinkers and not considered good/fine wines. Meant to be drunk young and not stored.
 
The sort you can buy in the French Hypermarkets in Calais (bulk buying) and some supermarkets for immediate drinking.
 
Remember these key pointers:- 
 

No good/fine wine will be put in cask/boxes because:-

-Good/fine wines often throw sediment, and a box would not allow decanting etc, so cloudy wine is the result.

--Tests have proven that the cask material (plastic/aluminium looking stuff) allows an ingress of air over time so the wine eventually spoils. That is why the recommended max time/age for cask wine is 2 yrs.

 

Any French wine sold in boxes is meant for immediate/short life drinking and is not considered good/fine wine.

 

Maintenance drinking as it were...

 

[bankruatsteve]

22 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I rest my case, or should I say box...……..these are every day drinkers and not considered good/fine wines. Meant to be drunk young and not stored.

 

The sort you can buy in the French Hypermarkets in Calais (bulk buying) and some supermarkets for immediate drinking.

 

Remember these key pointers:- 

 

No good/fine wine will be put in cask/boxes because:-

-Good/fine wines often throw sediment, and a box would not allow decanting etc, so cloudy wine is the result.

--Tests have proven that the cask material (plastic/aluminium looking stuff) allows an ingress of air over time so the wine eventually spoils. That is why the recommended max time/age for cask wine is 2 yrs.

 

Any French wine sold in boxes is meant for immediate/short life drinking and is not considered good/fine wine.

I don't know why this is going tit for tat but the distributors of the box wines pictured above will certainly disagree with your assessment.  The value of this type of container is becoming popular with the public in France (according to my cousin who lives in Grenoble).  Finally, sediment is no longer an issue as most producers will filter and, unless the bottle has been stored for years just isn't a concern.  Most wine drinker drink it, not save it  And, box wines are not cloudy unless gone bad.  Cheers.

[xylophone]

On 8/12/2018 at 11:20 AM, bankruatsteve said:

I don't know why this is going tit for tat but the distributors of the box wines pictured above will certainly disagree with your assessment.  The value of this type of container is becoming popular with the public in France (according to my cousin who lives in Grenoble).  Finally, sediment is no longer an issue as most producers will filter and, unless the bottle has been stored for years just isn't a concern.  Most wine drinker drink it, not save it  And, box wines are not cloudy unless gone bad.  Cheers.

Certainly the distributors won't say that their product is just an every day drinker! But the fact remains, no matter what they say, that it is

 

Of course these containers are popular because you can buy a cheap wine by the litre and drink it a glass at a time, when wanted and the wine will keep without going off for weeks (6 weeks recommended)……….that is the key; cheap wine for every day drinking and which lasts for weeks.

 

As for sediment, true, cheap and every day wines are filtered so no sediment and as you say these boxes are meant for every day drinking, not keeping. Having said that many fine wines are not filtered and anyway red wine if kept long enough will throw a sediment due to the breakdown of polymers.

 

Finally......no need to go "tit for tat" as these are not good/fine wines and that's the end of the story, which was my point.

 

Good health to you.

[bankruatsteve]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/try-these-french-wines-3-liters-at-a-time/2016/10/08/eebd11f0-8b74-11e6-875e-2c1bfe943b66_story.html?utm_term=.1c706eb49f00

[xylophone]

Irrespective of the Washington post article says these cask/box wines are no more than everyday wines packaged for cheapness and convenience!!

 

Go to any auction house that has a Fine wine sale and see if they list any cask wines in their auction lists?

 

Also look up the term "Fine Wine".

 

Term "good" is far too subjective to define, but ask yourself this, "if a wine enthusiast says come to my house to see my fine wine collection...….would you expect to see a cask there?".

 

Likewise if they said to come and look at their collection of "good wine", would you expect to see a cask wine there?

 

And criteria a wine collector uses to decide whether a wine is fine or not are as follows...….

 

Balance

A wine must be equal or greater than the sum of its parts. No component should dominate (e.g. it shouldn't be too acidic, tannic, fruity, alcoholic). A wine's balance may be questioned when young yet is still might improve with age (e.g. tannins); however, fine wines do strike a balance which should still be evident in youth.

 

Length

It's important that the wine experience is not too fleeting, it should linger in a positive manner.

 

Complexity

 

It must have many facets to its nose and palate so the overall experience is not too straightforward; rather, it should have a changing, somewhat enigmatic side which makes it more fascinating and rewarding than most wine.

Typicity

 

Personally, I prefer the wine to reflect the highest achievements from within it's given region and style. However, we must remember that being satisfied entirely with what has gone before is no way to make progress!

 

From the above it should be possible to arrive at a loose definition of 'fine wine': one that shows elegance matched with concentration and interest. These are my characteristics of fine wine.

 

And rather than rely on a Washington post article which caters for the mass market, look in a specialist publication such as the Decanter (below) and esp this...…

 

‘The plastic is permeable on a microscopic level however, which explains why bag in box wines still have expiry dates, as the wine will become oxidised within a few months.’‘Despite what some say on their packaging, I would say keep them for three – four weeks at absolute maximum.’

 

https://www.decanter.com/learn/advice/how-long-does-bag-in-box-wine-last-ask-decanter-374523/  

[moontang]

Phoenix Arizona is more of a wine city, than Washington DC.  Bezos is a psychopathic liar, which is reflected in the ComPost, as well as many Amazon products.  100% cotton?  can be 54%....

[mogandave]

Irrespective of the Washington post article says these cask/box wines are no more than everyday wines packaged for cheapness and convenience!!
 
Go to any auction house that has a Fine wine sale and see if they list any cask wines in their auction lists?
 
Also look up the term "Fine Wine".
 
Term "good" is far too subjective to define, but ask yourself this, "if a wine enthusiast says come to my house to see my fine wine collection...….would you expect to see a cask there?".
 
Likewise if they said to come and look at their collection of "good wine", would you expect to see a cask wine there?
 
And criteria a wine collector uses to decide whether a wine is fine or not are as follows...….
 
Balance
A wine must be equal or greater than the sum of its parts. No component should dominate (e.g. it shouldn't be too acidic, tannic, fruity, alcoholic). A wine's balance may be questioned when young yet is still might improve with age (e.g. tannins); however, fine wines do strike a balance which should still be evident in youth.
 
Length
It's important that the wine experience is not too fleeting, it should linger in a positive manner.
 
Complexity
 
It must have many facets to its nose and palate so the overall experience is not too straightforward; rather, it should have a changing, somewhat enigmatic side which makes it more fascinating and rewarding than most wine.
Typicity
 
Personally, I prefer the wine to reflect the highest achievements from within it's given region and style. However, we must remember that being satisfied entirely with what has gone before is no way to make progress!
 
From the above it should be possible to arrive at a loose definition of 'fine wine': one that shows elegance matched with concentration and interest. These are my characteristics of fine wine.
 
And rather than rely on a Washington post article which caters for the mass market, look in a specialist publication such as the Decanter (below) and esp this...…
 
‘The plastic is permeable on a microscopic level however, which explains why bag in box wines still have expiry dates, as the wine will become oxidised within a few months.’‘Despite what some say on their packaging, I would say keep them for three – four weeks at absolute maximum.’
 
https://www.decanter.com/learn/advice/how-long-does-bag-in-box-wine-last-ask-decanter-374523/  

For something light in the afternoon I like ice-cold “Pagan Pink Ripple”.

When I’m in the mood for something more robust l like “Richards Wild Irish Rose”.

Not sure how they stack up, but they definitely get the job done...

[xylophone]

19 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

For something light in the afternoon I like ice-cold “Pagan Pink Ripple”.

When I’m in the mood for something more robust l like “Richards Wild Irish Rose”.

Not sure how they stack up, but they definitely get the job done...

 

Had to look those up and loved the description of the first one...…

 

"Ripple is one of the oldest and most classic ghetto wines. In its day Thunderbird and others were around...but somehow Ripple didn't stick around. It was often mentioned on the show 'Sanford and Son' because Sanford was was straight up hood and drank shit wines".

 

PS. Not sure I'll be hunting them down for my collection!!! 

[mogandave]

Had to look those up and loved the description of the first one...…
 
"Ripple is one of the oldest and most classic ghetto wines. In its day Thunderbird and others were around...but somehow Ripple didn't stick around. It was often mentioned on the show 'Sanford and Son' because Sanford was was straight up hood and drank shit wines".
 
PS. Not sure I'll be hunting them down for my collection!!! 

What’s the word?
Thunderbird!!!
How’s it sold?
Nice and cold!!!
What’s the price?
60 twice!!!
Who drinks the most?
We high-class folk!!!

Richard’s is still around....

[taiping]

Rather than just moan and groan about it, can someone please organize a very public wine boycott.

I will go back to making my own vino at a fifth of the price.

[mogandave]

Rather than just moan and groan about it, can someone please organize a very public wine boycott.
I will go back to making my own vino at a fifth of the price.

Yes, that’s brilliant.

Quit buying it and the price will come down!

Actually, if you quit buying it, it’s free...

[janclaes47]

7 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Quit buying it and the price will come down!

I did notice this weekend that at Makro the price for the 3L Mont Clair had come down to what it was before the latest increase.

 

Down from 1119 to 1000 something.

 

Maybe they feel the heat already.

 

Another Australian fruit wine was at 999 for 3L, and i think that was over 1000 a few weeks ago.

[mogandave]

I did notice this weekend that at Makro the price for the 3L Mont Clair had come down to what it was before the latest increase.
 
Down from 1119 to 1000 something.
 
Maybe they feel the heat already.
 
Another Australian fruit wine was at 999 for 3L, and i think that was over 1000 a few weeks ago.

Yes, just talking about it has driven the price down!!

Now if we can get everyone on the “water wagon” for a few months (or years) the price will plummet!!!!

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, taiping said:

Rather than just moan and groan about it, can someone please organize a very public wine boycott.

As I have said on many wine threads here, I am buying Chilean CS and Merlot for 310b a bottle; Aussie drinkers for between 369 to 440b a bottle and a few Italian wines for the same, so price wise no problem...….and they are all wine, no fruit juice!!

 

Quit moaning and search them out. Why settle for fruit wine in casks when real wine is at this price.

 

A clue...…...an Aussie red called Hopes End can be had for 440b at ma and pa stores at it is a well made wine and others are out there. I have just ordered 24 bots of Aussie Shiraz at 417b a bottle and a mate can't get enough of it, ordering 48 bottles.