Less Western Expats arriving than ever before and a significant fall in working Western expats now in Thailand

[KiChakayan]

Search area=Sukhumvit, age range = any to any and you get 90% of freelancers. Some really great opportunities, amongst the younguns mostly. Easy to BB.

[jimster]

17 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

I feel like this survey reflects accurately what I've observed.

 

The hollowing out of the under 35 expat demographic probably can be explained by Thailand's war on foreign teachers without work permits, creeping rise in cost of living, and improving economies in the West. Suspect that many working aged expats who were paid in their home currency have found cost of living here has shot up and left as a result. Crackdown on beer bar scene has probably made Thailand less attractive to some as well. Still, expect that next downturn in the West will probably trigger a new wave of retirees and early retirees looking to stretch their pensions in Thailand. With the global homogenization of culture and mass tourism, worldwide tourism has simply lost a lot of its allure. 

 

Survey also thoroughly debunks the myth that majority of expats over here are broke. Note rates of home ownership, car ownership, and monthly expenditures reported. 

 

Also of interest was that while the majority of expats appear to be living in major metropolitan areas and popular seaside towns, a full third (32%) of respondents fall into an "all other" category, presumably many in smaller cities, towns and villages, i.e., rural Thailand, which, in my opinion, is under-rated as a place to live. 

I agree. Just to add to some of your points, other factors include cracking down on visa runners and individuals working illegally on tourist visas, as well as making tourist visas more difficult to come by, thus affecting digital nomads, almost all of whom are young, with most of them aged under 35 or 40.

 

I'm not sure if western economies have really improved - jobs continue to be outsourced and aren't really coming back, while the cost of living continues to skyrocket. This is particularly true in countries like Australia, which recently lost it's entire car industry with more than 50,000 people becoming jobless by the end of 2017. While housing prices have stablilized a bit over there in the last couple of years, housing is still among the most expensive in the world. Australia is no country to return home to, unless you are about to be paid a minimum of $250,000 a year with expense package. Otherwise, you're better off in Thailand and for retirees there's no comparison.

 

The introduction of ridiculous liquor licensing laws, making it possible to purchase alcohol (or drink alcoholic beverages at licensed venues) only between 11am and 2pm and 5pm and midnight  while every other country in the region (China, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Myanmar) has no such restrictions also makes things less attractive, unless you are a non-drinker or don't drink much like myself.

 

Indeed the homogenization of global culture and mass tourism means Thailand isn't all that unique or different to what it is used to be, because like everywhere else in the world, the curriculum is largely the same, the culture and what's on TV is the same, even many of the hotels and restaurants are the same (think McDonalds and all the other fast food places). In the future there will be further convergence so what will eventually be left will be a country with warmer weather and nice beaches, otherwise there won't be much difference from the west. A time will come when choosing between the Caribbean, Florida and Thailand will be a decision made primarily on value for money and how far you are away from each of these, because everything else is quite similar - weather, beaches, infrastructure (same high-rise condos and hotel chains etc.)

[otherstuff1957]

I didn't read all 216 posts in this threads, so I don't know if this has already been pointed out, BUT...

 

Didn't anyone point out that expats can be counted and the headline should be FEWER Western Expats, not LESS Western Expats!

 

Sorry to be pedantic, but that sort of obvious error really grates on my nerves! ?

[stanleycoin]

2 minutes ago, otherstuff1957 said:

I didn't read all 216 posts in this threads, so I don't know if this has already been pointed out, BUT...

 

Didn't anyone point out that expats can be counted and the headline should be FEWER Western Expats, not LESS Western Expats!

 

Sorry to be pedantic, but that sort of obvious error really grates on my nerves! ?

No one pointed it out,

we are not that pedantic on Tv. are we ? 

[Jonmarleesco]

Not to seem pedantic, the word is fewer, not less. 

[shackleton]

I have found since retiring here that everything so far meets my expectations

The people in my Soi very cheerful  from getting my morning iced coffee eating in the restaurants plus accommodation very good  ect 

Just been to the immigration main building in Chaeng Wattana for my yearly non 0 visa. Everyone there very positive and helpful

i find having a good outlook helps rather than looking for ways to be negative 

There will be no doubt be ups and downs but I made the decision to retire here come what may 

 

[Jonmarleesco]

1 minute ago, stanleycoin said:

No one pointed it out,

we are not that pedantic on Tv. are we ? 

Seems a few of us agree on the fact that fewer is the correct word. 

[moontang]

17 minutes ago, otherstuff1957 said:

I didn't read all 216 posts in this threads, so I don't know if this has already been pointed out, BUT...

 

Didn't anyone point out that expats can be counted and the headline should be FEWER Western Expats, not LESS Western Expats!

 

Sorry to be pedantic, but that sort of obvious error really grates on my nerves! ?

Hopefully, there are less English Teacher types, too.  

[Odysseus123]

3 minutes ago, Jonmarleesco said:

Seems a few of us agree on the fact that fewer is the correct word. 

Yep-made my day..

 

Probably made the day of untold millions.Those who are alive and those  who are yet to be born.

 

The world is a far bigger,grander place now that we have settled this outstanding question.

 

In the real world (discounting Expatria for what it is) the fact is that other places are being aggressively marketed these days.In Australia,for example,the connection between Vietnam and tourism is  very strong and,given the fact of a relatively large Vietnamese population and a fairly recent history (1966-72) it will only grow stronger.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

19 hours ago, worgeordie said:

It's harder finding Farang tenants for rental properties now,

10 years ago relatively easy,now its Chinese (only as a last

resort) and Thais (never again),not racist ,just good business

practice.

regards worgeordie

A few years ago, I rented out my apartment (2 beds, 2 toilet/shower rooms, a living broom and large Thai kitchen) in a small village ) to a Thai couple  for just 2000 bahts a month. They agreed to sign a year-long contract and pay 3000 per month if I installed an air-con unit, which I did at a cost of 30000. My  Thai wife allowed them in, contrary to my instructions, without paying a deposit, which they said they could not afford.

 

They paid the rent for the first two months but were gone  without notice after just three months, when my wife called to collect the rent.  The damage to the property included electric sockets hanging out of the walls,  4 inch nails hammered into the kitchen and bathroom tiles (smashing several) on which to hang their towels and a very large cup-sized hole in an outer concrete wall in which to bring in their TV aerial, even though TV sockets had been built in.  Fortunately, they left the air-con unit behind.  As potential tenants in that village could only be Thais, I have left the whole building, comprising 4 such units, empty for the past 12 years in the absence of a purchaser, despite the property being situated in a one rai area.  There was a logical reason for buying the property in a partially completed state originally but circumstances changed and it turned out to be yet another of my mistakes in Thailand.  At the age of 77, I am being a bit more sensible now!  

[Canuckabroad]

3 hours ago, stanleycoin said:

This issue is more about pre existing conditions and not being able to get insurance.

So what will Thailand do with these people. ?  cash in the bank ?

or else,  get out Falang ?

 

 

You can buy reasonably cheap travel insurance off the Internet.  It may not cover pre-existing conditions but it’s good for an accident, or having your phone stolen.  WorldNomads is less than $100 per month for a 69 year old American.  However, they only insure people under 70

[moontang]

1 minute ago, Canuckabroad said:

You can buy reasonably cheap travel insurance off the Internet.  It may not cover pre-existing conditions but it’s good for an accident, or having your phone stolen.  WorldNomads is less than $100 per month for a 69 year old American.  However, they only insure people under 70

Tokyo Marine for me..a rapidly growing company.

[suzannegoh]

Seems a few of us agree on the fact that fewer is the correct word. 

Or do less of us agree that it should be less?

[Berkshire]

13 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

I don't know why.

 

I live on the outskirts of bkk. Call me crazy but seven years ago there was hardly a farang. I could go a week and see one. Now they are everywhere. I suppose they aren't western or something, but the numbers surely aren't dwindling. 

I see the same, many more foreigners in Chiang Mai today than 10 years ago.  And with a proportional increase in western-style businesses to support them.  We're also seeing many more people in CM in general, which brings with it more traffic, pollution, dwindling natural resources, congestion, etc.  I'm not thrilled about this trend, but it is what it is. 

[melvinmelvin]

43 minutes ago, otherstuff1957 said:

I didn't read all 216 posts in this threads, so I don't know if this has already been pointed out, BUT...

 

Didn't anyone point out that expats can be counted and the headline should be FEWER Western Expats, not LESS Western Expats!

 

Sorry to be pedantic, but that sort of obvious error really grates on my nerves! ?

 

really depends on what you want to convey does it not?

 

maybe they mean that farang arriving now are smaller than before, ie less kilogram wise

or

maybe the idea is that farang have slimmed down compared to earlier, hence, less weight shifted over the border

 

 

don't be too hasty, TV usually know what they're doing

 

 

[tropo]

46 minutes ago, otherstuff1957 said:

I didn't read all 216 posts in this threads, so I don't know if this has already been pointed out, BUT...

 

Didn't anyone point out that expats can be counted and the headline should be FEWER Western Expats, not LESS Western Expats!

 

Sorry to be pedantic, but that sort of obvious error really grates on my nerves! ?

Just in an attempt to alleviate your obvious distress... "fewer" will probably disappear from the English language sometime in the near future.

 

Remember that when you see "10 items or less" at the supermarket express lane instead of "10 items or fewer"... or perhaps "less promising results" instead of "fewer promising results". "fewer" is fast becoming a matter of stylistic choice rather than necessity.

 

Languages evolve - deal with it.

Edited August 3, 2018 by tropo

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, tropo said:

Just in an attempt to alleviate your obvious distress... "fewer" will probably disappear from the English language sometime in the near future.

 

Remember that when you see "10 items or less" at the supermarket express lane instead of "10 items or fewer"... or perhaps "less promising results" instead of "fewer promising results". "fewer" is fast becoming a matter of stylistic choice rather than necessity.

 

Languages evolve - deal with it.

Are you saying there will be less instances of fewer or fewer instances of fewer ?

[stanleycoin]

30 minutes ago, Canuckabroad said:

You can buy reasonably cheap travel insurance off the Internet.  It may not cover pre-existing conditions but it’s good for an accident, or having your phone stolen.  WorldNomads is less than $100 per month for a 69 year old American.  However, they only insure people under 70

I'm on about heath care insurance. not Travel insurance.

what will Thailand do with all the Ex-pats who can't afford insurance or cant get insurance. ?

Tell them to leave ?  not renew there 12 months extension of stay ?

who knows what they will do, but nothing will surprise me.

That's if they do anything at all about this issue.

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by stanleycoin

[jimster]

3 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

I see the same, many more foreigners in Chiang Mai today than 10 years ago.  And with a proportional increase in western-style businesses to support them.  We're also seeing many more people in CM in general, which brings with it more traffic, pollution, dwindling natural resources, congestion, etc.  I'm not thrilled about this trend, but it is what it is. 

I agree. Same in Bangkok as the other poster you replied to said. There are certainly not fewer expats in Thailand than there were a few years ago, quite to the contrary. I notice foreigners in the outskirts of Bangkok whenever I pay attention, almost on a daily basis. Go to the local Tesco and there's usually one or two, along with the occasional African even. One time this African dude drove a tractor to the local Tesco with his son - that was quite a spectacle, Thais crowded around him and took pictures, it was like wow, this is not something you see everyday! There are always a few farang at the local suburban shopping mall, which granted is quite large but it doesn't attract many tourists simply because it's not located in downtown Bangkok. Otherwise as a mall it's pretty much as good as MBK or Central World and possibly even bigger than either of them.

 

I have had farang neighbors, and while some have moved on, new farang have come in to replace the ones that have left and there's quite a few farang living in my moo baan. Nearly all (except one American Baptist family that are said to be conducting their missionary activities somewhere in upcountry Thailand now) are in relationships with Thais and some have children.

[Sprigger]

I do not consider myself an expat, 6 months U.K., 6 months Thailand. General cost of living now higher in Thailand than U.K. don’t know how Thais survive other than borrowing and scamming. Let’s be honest if the sun didn’t shine no one would choose to live in Thailand. The only thing it’s got going for it. Fact.

[jimster]

13 minutes ago, stanleycoin said:

I'm on about heath care insurance. not Travel insurance.

what will Thailand do with all the Ex-pats who can't afford insurance or cant get insurance. ? 

 

 

Travel insurance includes health insurance - as long as you can meet the residency requirements it doesn't really matter which one you get. I think you are referring to expat insurance, but that only covers medical expenses in the country you're living in (Thailand in this case), with no coverage in case of a business or leisure trip to say Laos, where additional travel insurance would be required.

 

The other guy mentioned travel insurance at less than $100 (presumably USD) per month, but that's still almost USD 1200 per year, which is not cheap. I have been used to paying A$400 or US$300 per year for basic travel insurance from Australian based companies.

 

I don't think Thailand should be fixated on the insurance status of expats - either give us a choice or give us something like it provides the 3 million foreign migrant laborers from Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia. I can't understand why they are given health insurance when they are foreigners but other expats, whose numbers are much smaller are not. Is it because they look Thai? Besides, Thailand is shooting themselves in the foot with a scheme that is not reciprocated for it's nationals working in those countries. Thais can't access the local medical system in Myanmar, Cambodia and Laos unless they pay, the same as any westerner.

Edited August 3, 2018 by jimster

[jimster]

3 minutes ago, Sprigger said:

I do not consider myself an expat, 6 months U.K., 6 months Thailand. General cost of living now higher in Thailand than U.K. don’t know how Thais survive other than borrowing and scamming. Let’s be honest if the sun didn’t shine no one would choose to live in Thailand. The only thing it’s got going for it. Fact.

"General cost of living now higher in Thailand than U.K."? Ha! What are you telling me you can buy a plate of fried rice on the streets of London for less than the Pound equivalent of 35 Baht? Or a 5 star hotel room for under 2500 Baht? Or rent a 2 bedroom apartment for under 15,000 Baht a month in London? You're dreaming.

 

Sure, Thailand is more expensive for some things - anything imported, cars for example. But most are things are cheaper. Even if prices are not what they used to be.

[TomThailand]

22 minutes ago, tropo said:

Just in an attempt to alleviate your obvious distress... "fewer" will probably disappear from the English language sometime in the near future.

 

Remember that when you see "10 items or less" at the supermarket express lane instead of "10 items or fewer"... or perhaps "less promising results" instead of "fewer promising results". "fewer" is fast becoming a matter of stylistic choice rather than necessity.

 

Languages evolve - deal with it.

Sadly many native English language speakers do abuse their mother tongue, e.g, the misuse of apostrophes in plurals, and the incorrect use of fewer and less.  The way to deal with it is to correct them.  So, tropo, here goes.

 

Use fewer if you are referring to people or things in the plural, e.g. there are fewer Westerners visiting Thailand.

 

Use less if you are referring to uncountable nouns or something that doesn't have a plural, e.g. there is less money in my bank account bank than there was last year.

 

Less is also used with numbers that are on their own, e.g. his marriage lasted less than two years.

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by TomThailand

[stanleycoin]

4 minutes ago, jimster said:

Travel insurance includes health insurance - as long as you can meet the residency requirements 

 

Mate that's the whole point right there.

 

[oslooskar]

4 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

Never heard any man say nice things about Bulgarian women... ?

My regular doctor for several years at Kaiser hospital in Redwood City, California was from Bulgaria and she was the best physician to ever look after me.

[tropo]

Just now, TomThailand said:

Sadly many native English language speakers do abuse their mother tongue, e.g, the misuse of apostrophes in plurals, and the incorrect use of fewer and less.  The way to deal with it is to correct them.  So, tropo, here goes.

 

Use fewer if you are referring to people or things in the plural, e.g. there are fewer Westerners visiting Thailand.

 

Use less if you are referring to uncountable nouns or something that doesn't have a plural, e.g. there is less money in my bank account bank there was last year.

 

Less is also used with numbers that are on their own, e.g. his marriage lasted less than two years.

 

I disagree and I'm well aware of the rules. The sad thing is old people trying to hold onto rules that are ever changing... and now with the Internet, changes are happening at a rapid pace as different styles of English are being blended together. My prediction is "fewer" will be gone in one more generation. It is a totally unnecessary complication.

[JAZZDOG]

2 minutes ago, stanleycoin said:

Looks well suspect to me. 

Lets see a selfie honsum man, haha

[dunroaming]

23 hours ago, BobbyL said:

Not too surprised.

 

I know quite a lot of people who have left over the last few years, and also a few others who are thinking about it. These are all young expats (25-35) too who have had enough. 

Very few ex-pats that I knew in Thailand are still there.  I suppose it depends on your personal circumstances and what you want out of life but there are plenty of other places in the sun these days that fit most bills.

 

But there is a difference between the people who move to Thailand.  There are those that flee there because they are running away from something, there are those who are seduced by the Thai girls (or men) and are led by stirrings in their pants.  There are those who go for the more affordable lifestyle and there are those that go there because they see opportunities to make money.

[NightSky]

Im suprized no one has already mentioned it. The survey by THAIVISA is sent out to its readers every 2 years by email..

 

It may simply mean less people are reading email, or less emails are reaching the inbox, or there are less readers on Thai Visa, or more readers are older now since Netflix arrived (example).

 

1400+ respondents is a good cohort but not a large enough slice of the expat community to make sweeping generalized claims that this is a true representation of the entire expat community. Its simply a small slice of Thai Visa readership who had time to respond and who actually saw the email / forum thread.

Edited August 3, 2018 by NightSky

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, NightSky said:

Im suprized no one has already mentioned it. The survey by THAIVISA is sent out to its readers every 2 years by email..

 

It may simply mean less people are reading email, or less emails are reaching the inbox, or there are less readers on Thai Visa, or more readers are older now since Netflix arrived.

 

1400+ respondents is a good cohort but not a large enough slice of the expat community to make sweeping generalized claims that this is a true representation of the entire expat community. Its simply a small slice of Thai Visa readership who had time to respond and who actually saw the email / forum thread.

Sure.