If Trump’s Fundraising Numbers Are Any Clue, He’s in Serious Trouble

[rooster59]

Exclusive: Despite tensions, Russia seeks U.S. help to rebuild Syria

By Arshad Mohammed and Phil Stewart

 

A student walks past rubble of damaged buildings in a rebel-held area in the city of Deraa, Syria January 25, 2018. REUTERS/Alaa al-Faqir

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Russia has used a closely guarded communications channel with America's top general to propose the two former Cold War foes cooperate to rebuild Syria and repatriate refugees to the war-torn country, according to a U.S. government memo.

 

The proposal was sent in a July 19 letter by Valery Gerasimov, the chief of the Russian military's General Staff, to U.S. Marine General Joseph Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, according to the memo which was seen by Reuters.

 

The Russian plan, which has not been previously reported, has received an icy reception in Washington. The memo said the U.S. policy was only to support such efforts if there were a political solution to end Syria's seven-year-old civil war, including steps like U.N.-supervised elections.

 

The proposal illustrates how Russia, having helped turn the tide of the war in favour of President Bashar al-Assad, is now pressing Washington and others to aid the reconstruction of areas under his control. Such an effort would likely further cement Assad's hold on power.

 

"The proposal argues that the Syrian regime lacks the equipment, fuel, other material, and funding needed to rebuild the country in order to accept refugee returns," according to the memo, which specified that the proposal related to Syrian government-held areas of the country.

 

The United States in 2011 adopted a policy that Assad must leave power but then watched as his forces, backed by Iran and then Russia, clawed back territory and secure Assad's position.

 

The United States has drawn a line on reconstruction assistance, saying it should be tied to a process that includes U.N.-supervised elections and a political transition in Syria. It blames Assad for Syria's devastation.

 

Dunford's office declined comment on communications with Gerasimov.

 

"In accordance with past practice, both Generals have agreed to keep the details of their conversations private," said spokeswoman Captain Paula Dunn.

 

The Kremlin and Russia's defence ministry did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

 

The Syria conflict has killed an estimated half a million people, driven some 5.6 million people out of the country and displaced around 6.6 million within it.

 

Most of those who have fled are from the Sunni Muslim majority, and it is unclear whether Assad's Alawite-dominated government will allow all to return freely or whether they would want to. Sunnis made up the bulk of the armed opposition to Assad.

 

"The United States will only support refugee returns when they are safe, voluntary and dignified," said the memo, which is specifically about the Russian plan for Syria.

 

Rebuilding Syria will also be a massive effort, costing at least $250 billion, according one U.N. estimate.

 

Some U.S. officials believe Syria's dependence on the international community for reconstruction, along with the presence of U.S. and U.S.-backed forces in part of Syria, gives Washington leverage as diplomats push for a negotiated end to the war.

 

MILITARY CHANNEL

 

The exchange offered a rare glimpse into the military communications channel between Moscow and Washington, one that Dunford himself has fiercely sought to keep private.

 

Dunford, who speaks periodically with Gerasimov, has stressed that the two militaries need to be able to have candid, private communications to avoid misunderstandings that could lead to armed confrontation.

 

But it was unclear how reconstruction and refugees fit into military-to-military communications. Gerasimov's letter suggests that channel is also being used by Moscow to broach non-military matters.

 

President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin discussed Syria, and the issue of refugees, at their July 16 summit in Helsinki. U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said the talks focused on "how we might get the refugees back."

 

But U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said last week no policy changes came out of the summit. The U.S. government memo explicitly said the Russian proposal was not "an outcome" of the Trump-Putin talks, but cautioned that Russian officials were trying to present it differently.

 

"Russian diplomats and other officials have also been engaging in an aggressive campaign to describe the initiative in other capitals and to insinuate that it is an outcome of the U.S.-Russia meeting in Helsinki, which it is not, repeat not," the memo read.

 

The Russian cover letter for the proposal sent to Dunford recommended the United States, Russia and Jordan repurpose a hub designed to monitor a 2017 ceasefire agreement "to form a joint committee to implement the reconstruction and refugee return plan," the memo said. Jordan is hosting more than 650,000 Syrian refugees.

 

The Russian letter also suggests that the United States and Russia form a joint group to finance infrastructure renovation in Syria, the U.S. memo says.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-08-04

[pegman]

Come on Trump, your good buddy Vlad needs a hand rebuilding Assadist's country for him.

[keith101]

Hell no Russia is the one bombing the country they should rebuild it not the US .

[IAMHERE]

America can spend that money on the Syrians in the USA. Heck, maybe import a few more english speaking doctors.

 

Quote

 

 

[Tug]

Come on Donald it’s a golden opportunity to suck up to Putin’s 

[connda]

China Eyes Role Rebuilding Syria While Putin Spars With West
"Western powers are reluctant to help rebuild Syria after its civil war, because they think the wrong side won. Russia and Iran played a major part in that outcome -- but they can’t afford a bill estimated at a quarter-trillion dollars.

Enter China?"

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-21/china-arrives-in-syria-as-putin-fights-west-over-postwar-cash

 

Edited August 4, 2018 by connda

[geriatrickid]

Let China and Russia pay for it. Better yet, let Assad's muslim brothers chip in.

[My Thai Life]

Russia may have done more bombing than the west, but the conditions for the war to start were contributed to substantially by the west and its proxies: I think Obama, Blair and Trump have all stated this in their  different ways.

 

If the west does not contribute to the rebuilding of the country, then the west's influence in the region will be seriously diminished for a very very long time.

 

China's new Silk Road is a project which will add immensely to China's growing hegemony, and also demonstrates visionary long-term planning while western players seem increasingly unable to think beyond their own borders. Having Syria in the belt will be a prized jewel in the crown (sorry about the mixed metaphor).

 

I also think the west has a moral responsibility to help.

 

The repatriation of refugees in most cases is also something that we will all benefit from, hosts and refugees.

Edited August 4, 2018 by My Thai Life

[pegman]

37 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Russia may have done more bombing than the west, but the conditions for the war to start were contributed to substantially by the west and its proxies: I think Obama, Blair and Trump have all stated this in their  different ways.

 

If the west does not contribute to the rebuilding of the country, then the west's influence in the region will be seriously diminished for a very very long time.

 

China's new Silk Road is a project which will add immensely to China's growing hegemony, and also demonstrates visionary long-term planning while western players seem increasingly unable to think beyond their own borders. Having Syria in the belt will be a prized jewel in the crown (sorry about the mixed metaphor).

 

I also think the west has a moral responsibility to help.

 

The repatriation of refugees in most cases is also something that we will all benefit from, hosts and refugees.

Leave the M.E. to China. The west ruined it's chance to do right by that region of the world by treating it as a possession. Same goes for S.E. Asia, Africa and South America.

[Mad mick]

5 hours ago, pegman said:

Come on Trump, your good buddy Vlad needs a hand rebuilding Assadist's country for him.

[Mad mick]

1 minute ago, Mad mick said:

 

 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Mad mick

[Thaidream]

Not One dollar for Syria.  Russia and China can spend billions on it if they desire as well as the wealthy Arab states. America needs to get out of the Middle East-bring all its troops home or relocate them to other strategic areas such as Singapore; Japan or even Vietnam.

 

America's destiny is as a Pacific and Asia power- upgrade relationships with Vietnam,  Thailand Philippines; Malaysia. Singapore and others- If Trump had any smarts he would rejoin  the Trans Pacific Partnership as a block to China's silk Road.

[My Thai Life]

1 hour ago, pegman said:

Leave the M.E. to China. The west ruined it's chance to do right by that region of the world by treating it as a possession. Same goes for S.E. Asia, Africa and South America.

Well nobody can doubt the shoddy history of the west in the ME: Robert Fisk's excellent The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East is highly recommended for people who want to go further than soundbites.

 

But I seriously doubt whether China will be an improvement.

Edited August 4, 2018 by My Thai Life

[Jingthing]

My suspicion is that there is going to an alliance between vicious murderous Russian dictator Putin  and "trump" and also the "trump" allied white nationalist western leaders (such that exist and they are growing) to forcefully send Syrian refugees back to Syria regardless of their safety. I don't believe most will be safe going back but I think there will be a propaganda show put on the push that they will be. 

Relating to this specific topic, yes, I think "trump" has probably already agreed in Helsinki to play along with this Putin led propaganda show. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Jingthing

[Trouble]

19 hours ago, rooster59 said:

The United States has drawn a line on reconstruction assistance, saying it should be tied to a process that includes U.N.-supervised elections and a political transition in Syria. It blames Assad for Syria's devastation.

The problem in the Middle East goes back generations. The more recent problem in Syria and the resultant devastation and refugee crisis can be laid directly on the footsteps of the USA (Obama Administration) and other western powers. In 2011 when the protests started the West entered the picture and started taking sides in the issue pro and anti Assad. The early protests brought on by mostly socio-economic factors and the drought from 2006 - 2010 turned into sectarian factions all hoping to overthrow Assad and take a  piece of the pie for their own benefit while promising the West democratic reforms to get support. Of course the factions were in it for themselves not for democratic reforms.  The USA and the West saw this as another chance to overthrow a less than friendly regime.  The USA started arming the rebels and created on full on civil war leading to the devastation and refugee crises.  It's quite possible that had these rebels not been armed Assad would have crushed the rebels causing only a fraction of the destruction.  It was not the business of the West to get involved nor take sides. One would think they would have learned from what happened in Libya but they never learn.  My feeling is that if Trump could find a way to back out of the mess he would as he does not see it as an issue for the US to be involved in to begin with. He inherited the mess.  It is my personal opinion that the sooner the Russians and Assad crush the rebels the sooner work can begin to rebuild.  However, I say let the Chinese fund it if they want to.  The Assad regime will never be overly friendly with the US as they have been more aligned with Russia for over 40 years. We can only hope Assad learns how precarious his position is and this leads to some reforms they are better for the people of Syria.  From all articles I have read, the rebel factions would turn on each other given the chance if they didn't have a current common enemy.  China is smart in their strategy by not generally getting involved in internal politics of a country but just sticking to business investment with whomever is in power.  They just bribe their way into a country to fulfill their economic interests. In general, I have always though of Assad as a sectarian person but some of the rebel groups seems to be defined by ethnic or religious affiliations.  That is a recipe for further war without a strong man. We all saw the aftermath of the death of Tito in Yugoslavia. 

[bristolboy]

On 8/4/2018 at 8:07 AM, keith101 said:

Hell no Russia is the one bombing the country they should rebuild it not the US .

Tell that to the residents of Raqqa. The US promised to help them after bombing the city into rubble. At the last minute Trump reneged.

[vogie]

16 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Tell that to the residents of Raqqa. The US promised to help them after bombing the city into rubble. At the last minute Trump reneged.

It's a wonder that Trump didn't make the residents of Raqqa pay for the bombs.

[Opl]

as a reminder ..back to december 2017

" Russia’s initiative looks like a quick-fix arrangement to leave Assad in power and get someone else to foot the bill for reconstruction, according to White House officials. The U.S. and its European allies are in agreement there shouldn’t be any international funding for rebuilding in the areas under Assad’s control, they said. The International Monetary Fund estimates the cost of reconstruction at $200 billion, and neither of Syria’s main allies, Russia and Iran, can afford to pick up the bill."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-12/russia-says-no-reason-for-assad-to-give-up-syria-leadership

[NumbNut]

20 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

Well nobody can doubt the shoddy history of the west in the ME: Robert Fisk's excellent The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East is highly recommended for people who want to go further than soundbites.

 

But I seriously doubt whether China will be an improvement.

Brilliant book, can't recommend it enough.

 

Hard to think of a journalist more qualified to comment of the Middle East then Robert Fisk. He has a residency, if that is the correct term to use, at the Independent, link below:-

 

Robert Fisk at The Independent

 

Rare journalism for these 'fake news' times! 

[sammieuk1]

Rebuilding into a desert should be easy enough?  

[Slickrick]

This is really a stupid idea and cannot see any reason to do it.

[Morch]

On 8/4/2018 at 10:05 AM, IAMHERE said:

America can spend that money on the Syrians in the USA. Heck, maybe import a few more english speaking doctors.

 

 

 

I imagine the transition from Brutal Dictator to a mere resident would be kinda harsh:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashar_al-Assad#Medicine:_1988–1994

[Morch]

On 8/4/2018 at 11:40 AM, My Thai Life said:

Russia may have done more bombing than the west, but the conditions for the war to start were contributed to substantially by the west and its proxies: I think Obama, Blair and Trump have all stated this in their  different ways.

 

If the west does not contribute to the rebuilding of the country, then the west's influence in the region will be seriously diminished for a very very long time.

 

China's new Silk Road is a project which will add immensely to China's growing hegemony, and also demonstrates visionary long-term planning while western players seem increasingly unable to think beyond their own borders. Having Syria in the belt will be a prized jewel in the crown (sorry about the mixed metaphor).

 

I also think the west has a moral responsibility to help.

 

The repatriation of refugees in most cases is also something that we will all benefit from, hosts and refugees.

 

A whole bunch of nothing assertions. The "West"'s influence in the region got little to do with whether it will contribute to rebuilding Syria. Syria isn't even all that popular with other regional players, to put it mildly. This bit of nonsense seems more related to the assumed "moral responsibility", rather than relying on anything concrete as far as geopolitics and regional views go. The "West", and specifically the US, pored a whole lot of monies (other than defense related contracts) into the ME - can't say that, generally, locals are much taken by "the West", though.

 

China's ambitions are what they are, but at this stage it remains to be seen whether China can reach out that far, and maintain stability within - them problems non-democratic countries face. The other side of the coin is true - democratic governments aren't all that great at long term plans. Either way, I don't know that Syria is a "prized Jewel in the Crown", other than in your post.

[Morch]

On 8/4/2018 at 12:21 PM, pegman said:

Leave the M.E. to China. The west ruined it's chance to do right by that region of the world by treating it as a possession. Same goes for S.E. Asia, Africa and South America.

 

Pointless, generalized bashing is all some posters know. Other than the implied and assumed moralistic nonsense of "to do right by that region", the region isn't "destroyed", regardless of the hyperbole. And in any case, seems to me locals had at least something to with making a mess of things, at various junctions.

 

And by all means, do go on about China - with its great track record of treating neighbors, smaller nations and minorities (specifically and currently, Muslims).

[BestB]

On 8/4/2018 at 9:07 AM, keith101 said:

Hell no Russia is the one bombing the country they should rebuild it not the US .

In case you forgotten it was US and allies who bombed it for at least 1 year prior to Russia stepping in and in case you forgotten it was US who supported rebels 

Edited August 13, 2018 by BestB

[Morch]

On 8/4/2018 at 1:21 PM, Thaidream said:

Not One dollar for Syria.  Russia and China can spend billions on it if they desire as well as the wealthy Arab states. America needs to get out of the Middle East-bring all its troops home or relocate them to other strategic areas such as Singapore; Japan or even Vietnam.

 

America's destiny is as a Pacific and Asia power- upgrade relationships with Vietnam,  Thailand Philippines; Malaysia. Singapore and others- If Trump had any smarts he would rejoin  the Trans Pacific Partnership as a block to China's silk Road.

 

Most of them "wealthy Arab states" were opposed to Assad's regime or even sponsoring some of the opposition forces. The only major regional backer Assad's got is Iran - and Iran is in a bit of an economic situation at the moment.

 

I don't think Trump believes in binding, long-term partnerships and alliances.

[My Thai Life]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

The "West"'s influence in the region got little to do with whether it will contribute to rebuilding Syria

If the west wants continued influence it needs to keep in there, no question.

 

Take a look at where China is on the map, take a look at where Syria is on the map. And then consider whether a railway linking the China Sea to the Mediterranean would or would not be major strategic asset.

 

 

[Morch]

On 8/4/2018 at 1:28 PM, Jingthing said:

My suspicion is that there is going to an alliance between vicious murderous Russian dictator Putin  and "trump" and also the "trump" allied white nationalist western leaders (such that exist and they are growing) to forcefully send Syrian refugees back to Syria regardless of their safety. I don't believe most will be safe going back but I think there will be a propaganda show put on the push that they will be. 

Relating to this specific topic, yes, I think "trump" has probably already agreed in Helsinki to play along with this Putin led propaganda show. 

 

How many Syrian refugees currently reside in countries headed by "nationalist western leaders"? The vast majority of Syrian refugees are still in the region - Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan host the largest numbers of them. Then there are a whole lot of Syrians internally displaced, which is a different issue.

 

 

[Morch]

1 minute ago, My Thai Life said:

If the west wants continued influence it needs to keep in there, no question.

 

Take a look at where China is on the map, take a look at where Syria is on the map. And then consider whether a railway linking the China Sea to the Mediterranean would or would not be major strategic asset.

 

 

 

You say "no question", and yet you don't even offer anything to substantiate your earlier assertion. There is nothing which supports the notion that the "West"'s supposed ongoing influence is based on whether or not it will front the bill in Syria.

 

I'm quite familiar with the region, thanks. It still doesn't make the "prized jewel in the crown" bit any more credible. If that was the case, China would already be involved - and perhaps a bit more careful about them Uighur fighters.

[jenny2017]

On 8/4/2018 at 12:42 PM, Mad mick said:

You've got it wrong. Donald is a taker. .  ? https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/11/opinion/campaign-stops/count-trump-among-the-takers.html