Thousands to be hit by Kaeng Krachan overspill

[berybert]

No flooding, just hoping to beat Canada and have more lakes than any other country in the world.

 

[Stoker58]

30 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

No, not nonsense. Fuller than full is fully possible. I have seen it several times.

 

Full dam, not very big spillway, heavy rain, the water depth in the spillway can become quite significant.

 

Also, heavy wind in the direction from downstream dam towards the dam normally results in the whole top segment of the water

being shifted away from the dam, which makes room for lots and lots of rain into the dam, (where the top segment used to be).

 

The above are not freak scenarios, occur not infrequently.

The latter can potentially be dangerous if the dam wall is not cast concrete but heaped up stones/sand/gravel or what have you.

 

 Nope. What I said was accurate. We civil engineers know how to design dams and when we do so there are no unforeseen circumstances.

  On the rare occasions when dams fail, as in Laos, then there was incompetence in either the design or construction. “Freak, unforeseen conditions” is a common excuse for incompetence.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, Mitker said:

"water discharges from the dam"

 

I may miss something but there's 3 things I just don't get:

- why to discharge brutally instead of natural over-spilling?

- what's the point of building a dam that can not cope with its own capacity (we hear about "risk due to brimming dams")?

- why are dams the cause of any problem since they precisely can delay/level a flow that would otherwise have been uncontrolled?

Because most of these dams are old, earth-filled embankment style dams built by the PEA in a rush to cash in on cheap, 'hydro-electric' power that are now getting beyond their sell-by date.

[melvinmelvin]

8 minutes ago, Stoker58 said:

 Nope. What I said was accurate. We civil engineers know how to design dams and when we do so there are no unforeseen circumstances.

  On the rare occasions when dams fail, as in Laos, then there was incompetence in either the design or construction. “Freak, unforeseen conditions” is a common excuse for incompetence.

 

 

No unforeseen circumstances? So what? Doesn't prevent what I described happening.

I stated very clearly that what I described were not freak happenings, but scenarios that happen every now and then.

 

Man, go enjoy your own lack of knowledge!

Feel comfortable, you can be as dumb as you like, no problem.

 

I have worked with dam management several years, I have seen dams many many times.

What I described above happens every now and then. I have seen it with my own eyes several times.

 

civil engineer my a

 

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Because most of these dams are old, earth-filled embankment style dams built by the PEA in a rush to cash in on cheap, 'hydro-electric' power that are now getting beyond their sell-by date.

The 95 meter high Ratchaprapha or Cheow Lan Dam in Surathani is one of those clay or earth-filled dams, if this dam breaks tens of thousands of people could die.  

[Deli]

Again and again. Would be easy to avoid  with the right management But calling for foreign help and experts happens only when the world is watching.

[NanLaew]

9 minutes ago, Stoker58 said:

 Nope. What I said was accurate. We civil engineers know how to design dams and when we do so there are no unforeseen circumstances.

  On the rare occasions when dams fail, as in Laos, then there was incompetence in either the design or construction. “Freak, unforeseen conditions” is a common excuse for incompetence.

In a related thread, I posted about the UK's Storm Desmond causing floods in 2015 that inundated Lancaster's electric sub-station and deprived over 60,000 consumers of power for about 5 days.

 

That sub-station had just been upgraded at considerable expense to withstand the totally mythical, much underestimated, probably unmodeled but often touted '100 year flood'.

 

It looks like there's incompetent civil engineers all over the place... or those that hope they are dead, buried and forgotten when the wall of water inevitably does come.

[0815]

5 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Here we go, again 

and next year again...

[Assurancetourix]

5 hours ago, grumbleweed said:

Who'd have thought it, rain in the rainy season. 

 

NEWSFLASH!  Absence of sunlight may cause darkness

Right , and Christmas in december every year 

[Stupooey]

23 minutes ago, otherstuff1957 said:

While I am more than happy to criticize the various government depts. for mismanagement, it does look as though this amount of water in the dam was unexpected and could not have been dealt with earlier.  As the attached pic shows, a huge amount of runoff entered the reservoir within the last two weeks or so.

 

Not sure I believe this graph: for a start it fails to explain why they had to release so much water last November, which caused widespread flooding in Phetchaburi.

[Esso49]

27 minutes ago, otherstuff1957 said:

While I am more than happy to criticize the various government depts. for mismanagement, it does look as though this amount of water in the dam was unexpected and could not have been dealt with earlier.  As the attached pic shows, a huge amount of runoff entered the reservoir within the last two weeks or so.

 

So you actually believe that this graph, compiled by Thaiwater is correct ?  If you do then you are more incompetent then they are 

[swanny321]

 

  ''RELEASE THE KRACHAN!''

[Marvo]

2 hours ago, otherstuff1957 said:

While I am more than happy to criticize the various government depts. for mismanagement, it does look as though this amount of water in the dam was unexpected and could not have been dealt with earlier.  As the attached pic shows, a huge amount of runoff entered the reservoir within the last two weeks or so.

 

What we need to see is the "outflow" rate plot overlaid on the 2018 retained water level plot.

[Chassa]

It's all the Shin's fault

[ttrd]

RE - Landslides and flood warnings were issued for 35 provinces. 

 

Apart from Phetchaburi, Chiang Rai, Phayao, Nan, Tak, Kamphaeng Phet, Sukhothai, Phitsanulok, Phichit, Phetchabun, Nong Khai, Bueng Kan, Udon Thani, Sakon Nakhon, Nakhon Phanom, Mukdahan, Ratchaburi, Suphan Buri, Kanchanaburi, Uthai Thani, Chainat, Nakhon Sawan, Nakhon Nayok, Prachin Buri, Sa Kaew, Chon Buri, Rayong, Chanthaburi, Trat, Prachuap Khiri Khan, Chumphon, Surat Thani, Ranong, Phang Nga and Phuket are also at risk.  

 

It looks like a real risk that whole Thailand may slide-off the globe...

[Xonax]

3 hours ago, otherstuff1957 said:

While I am more than happy to criticize the various government depts. for mismanagement, it does look as though this amount of water in the dam was unexpected and could not have been dealt with earlier.  As the attached pic shows, a huge amount of runoff entered the reservoir within the last two weeks or so.

 

That is because Myanmar had to release water from their dams. If only some cooperation was in place between Thailand and neighboring countries, it could have been foreseen and flooding avoided.

The problem in Thailand is, that they want to grow 2 or 3 crops of unprofitable rice and at the same time want to avoid flooding.  Unfortunately both are not possible.

[dorchester]

Maybe i should look into the purchase of one of those submarines

[lvr181]

No such thing as a "natural disaster" only the disasterous impact of natural hazards (in this case - flooding) on infrastructure etc. 

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

3 hours ago, Xonax said:

That is because Myanmar had to release water from their dams. If only some cooperation was in place between Thailand and neighboring countries, it could have been foreseen and flooding avoided.

The problem in Thailand is, that they want to grow 2 or 3 crops of unprofitable rice and at the same time want to avoid flooding.  Unfortunately both are not possible.

So you mean that the water released in Myanmar will flow up over the 1000-1500 meter mountains range west of Keang Krachan dam and than into Keang Krachan dam?  

[kannot]

3 minutes ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

So you mean that the water released in Myanmar will flow up over the 1000-1500 meter mountains range west of Keang Krachan dam and than into Keang Krachan dam?  

Thai and Burmese  water special

[Thaidream]

I don't know anything about water management or civil engineer but I know one thing-  if something is 70% full and you expect more water from rain- you don't wait until it rains and the vessel reaches 99% before you decide to release water so the vessel (dam) doesn't overflow.

 

I do know that in 2011- when my house and many others were inundated- it did not have to happen.  Dam water could have been released gradually before it reached an emergency level. In addition- the then BMA blocked water flow into Bangkok to avoid flooding to the Hi So.sections of Bangkok.  Instead of everyone having 20-30 cm of water- Pathum Thani; Nonthaburi and Don Muang Airport  were inundated and billions lost and spent on restoration.

[Aupee]

Dams are built to control the flow of water. The art is to do the maths average rainfall by what times by how much you have and when you have it , build in an anti drought figure discharge the excess before you get the mass influx. Sorry but that is management not  rocket science.  When you get above average and and release it gradually the dams are not too full at the ending of the monsoon season your sums will be proved by the lack of floods. But you have to know the base of what you are trying to achieve---- no flooding

[toofarnorth]

12 hours ago, Darcula said:

Time to dust off those yellow scarfs and boy scout uniforms for another photo-op.

Cave ( Latin ) here comes the PM.

[Stoker58]

23 hours ago, NanLaew said:

In a related thread, I posted about the UK's Storm Desmond causing floods in 2015 that inundated Lancaster's electric sub-station and deprived over 60,000 consumers of power for about 5 days.

 

That sub-station had just been upgraded at considerable expense to withstand the totally mythical, much underestimated, probably unmodeled but often touted '100 year flood'.

 

It looks like there's incompetent civil engineers all over the place... or those that hope they are dead, buried and forgotten when the wall of water inevitably does come.

  It doesn’t matter how much you spend on upgrading, electricity substations just don’t work underwater.

  As I recall, the decision to locate the Lancaster substation next to a river was economic, based on the fact that the 11kV cable network already converged on that location do to the previous existence of a generating station. 

  

[BernieOnTour]

Well,  water level rising by 40-50cm and the result is: flooding ? 555

 

Just as a comparison - in Cologne at the river Rhine "highwater management" starts with protective measures at 4.50m and the city starts flooding at 10.70m ...