UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[melvinmelvin]

 

Herrings are sorted,

 

I read in some msm that fisheries are sorted re the Brexit deal and also some other minor issues

 

remaining : Gibraltar

 

Spanish PM, currently in Cuba, is crystal clear that he will not endorse any Brexit deal on Sunday

unless the Cliff related texts are changed to his liking.

 

 

[bomber]

4 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Not quite.

 

But we are extracting ourselves from the EU.

 

One step at a time.

only backward steps tho,i see the vauxhall workers have all gone on strike even before JC takes over,always been quick of the mark have the scousers,with a no deal iam sure vauxhall will soon relocate to slovakia without any problems,plenty of tatties to be picked in lincolnshire for them scousers at for half the wages

[kwilco]

It beggars belief the Brexiteers back backing Britain in such a benighted way.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-living-standards-fall-longest-60-years-records-began-economy-household-incomes-costs-energy-a8071146.html?fbclid=IwAR1tW8WbzU3FCMUAnv84y6bBw-oK1vG5or5P8gNTKe4GoGeWIwUSznAO4Z0

[kwilco]

Geography has never been a BREXIT strong point.....e.g. figure how if 2 countries vote to remain, why do they have to leave?

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157584172031336&id=709571335&refid=17&_ft_=mf_story_key.10157584172031336%3Atop_level_post_id.10157584172031336%3Atl_objid.10157584172031336%3Acontent_owner_id_new.709571335%3Athrowback_story_fbid.10157584172031336%3Aphoto_id.10157584166966336%3Astory_location.4%3Astory_attachment_style.video_autoplay%3Athid.709571335%3A306061129499414%3A2%3A0%3A1543651199%3A-751086221438276962&__tn__=*s*s-R

[melvinmelvin]

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

Herrings are sorted,

 

I read in some msm that fisheries are sorted re the Brexit deal and also some other minor issues

 

remaining : Gibraltar

 

Spanish PM, currently in Cuba, is crystal clear that he will not endorse any Brexit deal on Sunday

unless the Cliff related texts are changed to his liking.

 

 

after some further reading, it appears that

 

the Spanish PM chap actually can block the Brexit deal

 

EUs high level body (PMs and heads of state) has adopted some own rules/MO for the Brexit effort,

it says that no deal re UKs future relationship to EU can apply to Gibraltar

unless Spain and UK agrees.

 

hmm,

(UK out of EU, Gibraltar stays? Ha! Jocks could move to warmer climate)

 

 

The PM wants clear text in the deal that establishes Spain's right to veto any

future agreements affecting Gibraltar's relationship to EU.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2018 by melvinmelvin
forgot

[JAG]

12 hours ago, kwilco said:

I'll never get my head round the consummate stupidity of Brexitism....

 

I can't get my head around dramatically oversimplifying an issue which has many differing aspects, pros and cons as one might say, ignoring those pros and cons; and then using that dramatic oversimplification to declare anyone who does not share your point of view utterly stupid.

Edited November 24, 2018 by JAG

[rixalex]

7 hours ago, oilinki said:

We pro-European people simply have to improve the EU we have. It's not perfect and there is lot to improve. We all know this. 

 

We just have to work to make it better. Bit by bit. 

 

To be honest, we don't have any other alternatives. Why we even should have. 

 

We pro-European people...

 

Who is "we"?

 

There seems to be an underlying assumption there that being anti-Eu means being anti-European.

 

I take it you are aware that that Europe and the EU are two totally different things, related though they may be, and that it is quite possible to passionately love Europe but at the same time, passionately dislike the EU?

 

 

[tebee]

Cabinet Brexiteers are gambling on a managed No Deal – and there's a good chance their bet will pay off

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/22/cabinet-brexiteers-gambling-managed-no-deal-good-chance-bet/

[tebee]

Martin Howe QC has been through the small print of May’s Brexit deal. His verdict: it’s not bad, it’s atrocious. Here’s his list of horrors: 

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/mays-brexit-deal-the-legal-verdict/amp/

 

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, tebee said:

Martin Howe QC has been through the small print of May’s Brexit deal. His verdict: it’s not bad, it’s atrocious. Here’s his list of horrors: 

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/mays-brexit-deal-the-legal-verdict/amp/

 

I don't think many leavers would argue with you on that one tebee, but Mrs May will instruct her cabinet that the country is behind it and so should you, why all the blatent lying.

 

BTW, I can only read the first couple of paragraphs on the previous link you posted, what is meant by a "managed no deal?".

[whatsupdoc]

5 minutes ago, tebee said:

Martin Howe QC has been through the small print of May’s Brexit deal. His verdict: it’s not bad, it’s atrocious. Here’s his list of horrors: 

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/mays-brexit-deal-the-legal-verdict/amp/

 

Conclusion: the EU has the power (and good negotiators), the UK doesn't.

 

And in case of a hard Brexit, I do not think negotiations with the rest of the world would be much better for the UK. They have positioned themselves in a very weak spot.

[tebee]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

I don't think many leavers would argue with you on that one tebee, but Mrs May will instruct her cabinet that the country is behind it and so should you, why all the blatent lying.

 

BTW, I can only read the first couple of paragraphs on the previous link you posted, what is meant by a "managed no deal?".

Leaving of our own volition, rather than just running out of time on March 29th next year - I'm not sure I agree, I think crashing out into disorganised chaos is much more likely  

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, tebee said:

Leaving of our own volition, rather than just running out of time on March 29th next year - I'm not sure I agree, I think crashing out into disorganised chaos is much more likely  

Mervyn King agrees with you on that one.

 

Mervyn King: Britain better off going for hard Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/dec/26/mervyn-king-britain-should-be-more-upbeat-about-brexit

 

Just noticed the article is from 2016, but I still agree with it anyway????

 

Edited November 24, 2018 by vogie

[tebee]

Quickest way to stop talking about Brexit is to remain....

[tebee]

The problem with the managed no deal option is that it assumes we will be able to somehow do the 1001 mini-deals that will be necessary to keep plans flying, vegetables on the supermarket shelves  and the like in the remaining 4 months.

 

Our record on doing deals recently does not bode well for this .

[aright]

55 minutes ago, tebee said:

Martin Howe QC has been through the small print of May’s Brexit deal. His verdict: it’s not bad, it’s atrocious. Here’s his list of horrors: 

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/mays-brexit-deal-the-legal-verdict/amp/

 

Is this the same Martin Howe QC who wrote articles. 

"Leaving the EU on WTO terms will pull down the barriers to world trade and cut prices for consumers"

 

"There are perfectly workable alternatives to the demeaning transition as proposed by the EU"

 

"Remaining in the EU Customs Union after Brexit would be a political and economic disaster"

 

"The EU’s unacceptable ECJ demands would create a privileged caste of EU citizens with superior rights in the UK"

 

https://brexitcentral.com/author/martin-howe-qc/page/2/

[damascase]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

after some further reading, it appears that

 

the Spanish PM chap actually can block the Brexit deal

 

EUs high level body (PMs and heads of state) has adopted some own rules/MO for the Brexit effort,

it says that no deal re UKs future relationship to EU can apply to Gibraltar

unless Spain and UK agrees.

 

hmm,

(UK out of EU, Gibraltar stays? Ha! Jocks could move to warmer climate)

 

 

The PM wants clear text in the deal that establishes Spain's right to veto any

future agreements affecting Gibraltar's relationship to EU.

 

 

 

 

It cannot be a matter of Gibraltar ‘staying’ in the EU, because it has never been in. It is not part of the Customs Union or the Single Market. As a former colony/dependant of an EU Member State, it is connected through the EU’s unilateral Overseas Countries and Territories arrangment which give them similar access to the EU markets as if they had a Free Trade Agreement.

 

[tebee]

May's Brexit deal is a humiliation for Britain

 

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/11/23/may-s-brexit-deal-is-a-humiliation-for-britain

 

The punishing timetable of the deal is reminiscent of Article 50, with all the failure and pain that entails. It is a conveyor belt towards an abattoir.

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, damascase said:

It cannot be a matter of Gibraltar ‘staying’ in the EU, because it has never been in. It is not part of the Customs Union or the Single Market. As a former colony/dependant of an EU Member State, it is connected through the EU’s unilateral Overseas Countries and Territories arrangment which give them similar access to the EU markets as if they had a Free Trade Agreement.

 

 

it was actually a joke,

however, Gibraltar is part of the SM I think.

 

[melvinmelvin]

41 minutes ago, tebee said:

May's Brexit deal is a humiliation for Britain

 

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/11/23/may-s-brexit-deal-is-a-humiliation-for-britain

 

The punishing timetable of the deal is reminiscent of Article 50, with all the failure and pain that entails. It is a conveyor belt towards an abattoir.

 

 

fun reading a Friday morning with a coffee,

I  find Dunt's language kinda over the top though

 

The Tory party accepts her as PM, and has done so for a long time

The UK parliament accepts her as PM, and has done so for a long time

 

not happy with the harvest?

parliament to blame me thinks

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, rixalex said:

We pro-European people...

 

Who is "we"?

 

There seems to be an underlying assumption there that being anti-Eu means being anti-European.

 

I take it you are aware that that Europe and the EU are two totally different things, related though they may be, and that it is quite possible to passionately love Europe but at the same time, passionately dislike the EU?

We as the people like myself, who thinks Europe is our home country.

 

There is indeed clear unity of people who make the EU and therefore Europe. England decided that it's too fancy to be part of our EU club and voted to exit. That's fine. Your decision to leave others behind has been noted by everybody. You can dislike our union as much as you like, as you are no longer real part of it anyway. 

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

13 hours ago, tebee said:

Oddly enough I can bring my thai wife to the UK by virtue of having worked in France - pre-brexit we were thinking of doing it,  as it's easier to get her and her son's Dr qualifications recognized there.

Post brexit we reckon it's better to struggle getting them registered with the French health authorities and retain our FOM   rights, though I may end up having to acquire French nationality do do so, depending on the eventual settlement.

 

But generally the British in Europe feel very ignored by this government - they have refuse to send a representative to meet us.   

 

yes, because she has stayed long time in France?

 

other EU citizens can take their Thai wife to the UK much easier/quicker than you can

[Guest]

Someone has made a rather comprehensive list of news about EU, which has been fed to the UK.

 

No wonder why the Brits hate the rest of us so much.

 

https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/

 

[rixalex]

24 minutes ago, oilinki said:

We as the people like myself, who thinks Europe is our home country.

 

There is indeed clear unity of people who make the EU and therefore Europe. England decided that it's too fancy to be part of our EU club and voted to exit. That's fine. Your decision to leave others behind has been noted by everybody. You can dislike our union as much as you like, as you are no longer real part of it anyway. 

 

 

Sorry to disappoint you, but Britain is not leaving Europe and Europe doesn't belong to any one person, one nation, nor one political club. Please stop trying to take ownership of it.

[Guest]

Just now, rixalex said:

Sorry to disappoint you, but Britain is not leaving Europe and Europe doesn't belong to any one person, one nation, nor one political club. Please stop trying to take ownership of it.

Britain is indeed leaving Europe and eagerly rowing towards it's former glory of becoming a empire once again. Or at least that is the message which Brexiteers has delivered to rest of us. 

 

UK will have all the power in the world, yet be alone and isolated. 

[rixalex]

2 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Britain is indeed leaving Europe and eagerly rowing towards it's former glory of becoming a empire once again. Or at least that is the message which Brexiteers has delivered to rest of us. 

 

UK will have all the power in the world, yet be alone and isolated. 

Are you sure you got that message from a Brexiteer as it has the uncanny ring of remainer speak.

 

Anyway, the fact is, no matter what nonsense you choose to listen to and repeat, Britain is not leaving Europe. Sorry about that.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Are you sure you got that message from a Brexiteer as it has the uncanny ring of remainer speak.

 

Anyway, the fact is, no matter what nonsense you choose to listen to and repeat, Britain is not leaving Europe. Sorry about that.

You might not want to see it in this way, but UK is definitely leaving Europe with brexit. 

 

UK used to be part of our community. But now with brexit, it no longer is. 

 

UK used to be one family member, who was always invited to a dinner or meeting, when the EU family was doing plans how to make the home better. How to make best deals with other people. UK will no longer be invited to gatherings.

 

The divide between UK and Europe will become a lot greater after some time. Take Turkey as an example. We all acknowledge Turkey is somewhere there, but in reality we have very little to do with them. That is what UK is going to feel like for most of the Europeans few years after the brexit.

 

Would I go for an 'exotic' holiday to Britain? Perhaps. Would I buy things from UK and have to do all kind of paperwork for taxes etc? Nope, too much hassle.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, oilinki said:

You might not want to see it in this way, but UK is definitely leaving Europe with brexit. 

 

UK used to be part of our community. But now with brexit, it no longer is. 

 

UK used to be one family member, who was always invited to a dinner or meeting, when the EU family was doing plans how to make the home better. How to make best deals with other people. UK will no longer be invited to gatherings.

 

The divide between UK and Europe will become a lot greater after some time. Take Turkey as an example. We all acknowledge Turkey is somewhere there, but in reality we have very little to do with them. That is what UK is going to feel like for most of the Europeans few years after the brexit.

 

Would I go for an 'exotic' holiday to Britain? Perhaps. Would I buy things from UK and have to do all kind of paperwork for taxes etc? Nope, too much hassle.

I think the only place you'll find an "exotic holiday" in the UK these days is Luton.

 

But fear not olly, time is a great healer, you will soon get over it and after a while you will have forgot all about us. You will wonder what all the fuss was about, whilst we will wonder what all the derisive posts were about.

[grumpy 4680]

     Its not a question of having a deal, UK voters waited a long time for a brexit vote, and when they got it they voted OUT, so out means out.

     Its the dam'b politicians (who think the EU is just for them) they took us from a common market to what it is today, hence the reason to get out, 

     All of May's stalling to get a deal, is not going to be any use to us if still tied to EU strings. We were doing OK. before going in, so no reason for not being OK again when out, 

     Its only the corrupt EU. politicians (who only want our money) that are using scare tactics and trying to make life a difficult as possible for us because they won't accept that the EU is doomed to failure, in its current state anyway.

[Tweedle dee]

This thread is gonna go on for <deleted> years !