UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

Why did they come to Boston? Because they were invited. And why were they invited? Because the employers couldn't get local people to do the work. They pay their taxes and spend money in the local communities ... and that benefits the local community. The objection appeared to be their foreign origin rather than a desire by locals to pick vegetables in the fields, you won't find many young Britons willing to do that work and the older citizens are really not up to it physically. When they leave the economy will wither.  

Before they arrived, obviously British people were doing the work already. EU freedom of movement made it easy for Eastern Europeans to work in the UK - they came to improve their income and can't be blamed for taking that advantage - but the real reasons for them being in the UK are reduced labour costs and therefore increased profits for large food producers and other industries. While poorer eastern Europeans and some big UK farming and industry are happy, many British workers face a decrease in real pay and the total UK benefits bill is higher than it needs to be. 

 

[tebee]

Brace yourself, Britain. Brexit is about to teach you what a crisis actually is

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/30/brexit-britain-crisis-uk?CMP=share_btn_tw

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, tebee said:

Because we were told it was an advisory referendum.

 

Post fact you can change that and insist the result must be adhered to. 

Please point out to me where it says "advisory"

 

[melvinmelvin]

some European PMs have in interviews expressed a positive attitude re prolonging the A50 period

should the deal be shot down by the UK parliament

 

* prolongation until new EU parliament takes over (no UK representation)

* decision to prolong must be made by consensus (all 28)

* UK must be CLEAR on what they want

 

 

 

 

[vinny41]

12 minutes ago, tebee said:

Because we were told it was an advisory referendum.

 

Post fact you can change that and insist the result must be adhered to. 

And the 1975 EU referendum was also advisory

he Referendum Act 1975 (c. 33) also known simply as the Referendum Act was an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, which made legal provision for the holding of a non-binding referendum on whether the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Communities (EC)—generally known at the time in the UK, ...

[tebee]

Just now, vogie said:

Please point out to me where it says "advisory"

 

You know it was said in parliament by the same party that  we didn't need a supermajority because it was only an advisory referendum.  The Law  stated it was only an advisory referendum.

 

The PM can stand up before the FA cup final and say the game will be decided by the first team to score a goal, but that does not change the laws of football. 

[melvinmelvin]

15 minutes ago, tebee said:

Because we were told it was an advisory referendum.

 

Post fact you can change that and insist the result must be adhered to. 

 

I don't think that you were told that.

The UK PM at the time was clear that the government would implement what the plebs decide.

 

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

You know it was said in parliament by the same party that  we didn't need a supermajority because it was only an advisory referendum.  The Law  stated it was only an advisory referendum.

 

The PM can stand up before the FA cup final and say the game will be decided by the first team to score a goal, but that does not change the laws of football. 

I have given you proof, you have given me a J K Rowling tweet. ????????????

Edited November 30, 2018 by vogie

[tebee]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

And the 1975 EU referendum was also advisory

he Referendum Act 1975 (c. 33) also known simply as the Referendum Act was an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, which made legal provision for the holding of a non-binding referendum on whether the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Communities (EC)—generally known at the time in the UK, ...

Yes indeed All referendums in the UK must be advisory 

 

Parliament democratically decided to uphold the result of that referendum.

 

It can equally democratically decide to uphold the result of this referendum

or democratically decide to ignore the result of this referendum

or democratically decide to call for a new  referendum

 

All these options are equally valid expressions of our system of parliamentary democracy.

 

If you don't like that, start lobbying for the necessary constitutional changes. 

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

I don't think that you were told that.

The UK PM at the time was clear that the government would implement what the plebs decide.

 

Should have read:

 

at the time it was clear that the plebs would implement what the people decide.

 

 

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

and i am sure if remain won with 52% of the vote and leave was 48% remainers would have told leavers , you lost accept it the results stand

Nigel Farage stated quite clearly on the eve of the vote results that he would continue to fight on, especially if it where a narrow vote like 48-52. As is his democratic right. Remain supporters have the same right, as do leavers who have thought better of it now the reality is on the table.

[AlexRich]

44 minutes ago, tebee said:

Brace yourself, Britain. Brexit is about to teach you what a crisis actually is

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/30/brexit-britain-crisis-uk?CMP=share_btn_tw

I read that today, an excellent piece of writing, and a reminder of where these things can lead to. 

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Nigel Farage stated quite clearly on the eve of the vote results that he would continue to fight on, especially if it where a narrow vote like 48-52. As is his democratic right. Remain supporters have the same right, as do leavers who have thought better of it now the reality is on the table.

And was Nigel in a position in Goverment to bring forward a 2nd referendum but now we know the remainers refused to accept the results of the 2016 EU referendum when they spout the standard line we respect the results but.

There no reason why anyone should respect the results of a new referendum unless it uses a super majority system such as 80/20 and we all know remainers have zero chance of getting that result

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Nigel Farage stated quite clearly on the eve of the vote results that he would continue to fight on, especially if it where a narrow vote like 48-52. As is his democratic right. Remain supporters have the same right, as do leavers who have thought better of it now the reality is on the table.

And was Nigel in a position in Goverment to bring forward a 2nd referendum but now we know the remainers refused to accept the results of the 2016 EU referendum when they spout the standard line we respect the results but.

There no reason why anyone should respect the results of a new referendum unless it uses a super majority system such as 80/20 and we all know remainers have zero chance of getting that result

[tebee]

4 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I read that today, an excellent piece of writing, and a reminder of where these things can lead to. 

Yes, people really don't realize just how delicate our complex, intertwined society is today. 

 

And how easily it all turns to manure when you start breaking things ......

[AlexRich]

7 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

And was Nigel in a position in Goverment to bring forward a 2nd referendum but now we know the remainers refused to accept the results of the 2016 EU referendum when they spout the standard line we respect the results but.

There no reason why anyone should respect the results of a new referendum unless it uses a super majority system such as 80/20 and we all know remainers have zero chance of getting that result

It would have to be the same terms, but at least the facts are on the table ... if leavers still believe people want this they should go for it, as victory would settle the matter for a generation.

 

[rixalex]

 
"Get rid of them immigrants" was the cry from the many Vox Pops that I watched ... from Romford to Boston to Stoke, the same sentiment over and over from countless interviews ... of course the politicians talked about controlled immigration, they are hardly likely to admit to anything else ... we all know what a dog whistle sounds like.
 

Sorry, I find those cries you claim to have repeatedly heard, hard to believe, unless they came from a BNP rally.

More likely you've heard people complaining about there being too much immigration and come to your own extreme conclusions about what they think from there. As has been stated, Britain, contrary to the picture being painted by remainers, is on the whole, an extremely open minded, tolerant and friendly country when it comes immigrants. People just want there to be some control. It's really not a radical or extreme position to take.

And what happens when brexiteers in the media do categorically and explicitly state that they aren't against immigration, so that their view can't be misrepresented or twisted? You simply conclude they must be lying.

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[AlexRich]

2 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Sorry, I find those cries you claim to have repeatedly heard, hard to believe, unless they came from a BNP rally.

More likely you've heard people complaining about there being too much immigration and come to your own extreme conclusions about what they think from there. As has been stated, Britain, contrary to the picture being painted by remainers, is on the whole, an extremely open minded, tolerant and friendly country when it comes immigrants. People just want there to be some control. It's really not a radical or extreme position to take.

And what happens when brexiteers in the media do categorically and explicitly state that they aren't against immigration, so that their view can't be misrepresented or twisted? You simply conclude they must be lying.

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What I have concluded is that many politicians who encouraged people to vote leave could not care less about immigration, but used that issue prominently in their campaigns because they knew there was an audience for it. They want a low tax, low government, low benefits, low regulation country, but that doesn’t get votes in places like Boston ... just tell them they will be swamped by Turkish Muslims and the job is done.

[rixalex]

It would have to be the same terms, but at least the facts are on the table ... if leavers still believe people want this they should go for it, as victory would settle the matter for a generation.
 

Facts are on the table? What a nonsense. All we have is speculation. Until we actually leave and a bit of time is given, nobody will ever know what the future holds.

And if there was another referendum, just imagine how both sides would ramp up the propaganda. How are you going to stop that? You can't. It's what happens when there is a vote.

And as for, "it would settle the matter once and for all", why on earth would anyone believe that, since that is precisely what we were told last time around? You can only make that promise credibly once.

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[AlexRich]

7 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Facts are on the table? What a nonsense. All we have is speculation. Until we actually leave and a bit of time is given, nobody will ever know what the future holds.

And if there was another referendum, just imagine how both sides would ramp up the propaganda. How are you going to stop that? You can't. It's what happens when there is a vote.

And as for, "it would settle the matter once and for all", why on earth would anyone believe that, since that is precisely what we were told last time around? You can only make that promise credibly once.

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If people have a choice between remain, a deal and no deal then there is very little scope for promising "cake and eat it" and "they need us more than we need them" ... these phrases have lost a great deal of credibility. If people vote leave with no deal and it all turns out wonderfully then it would be over ... and presumably that is what you believe will happen? ... but if it doesn't you might well see a move by the younger generation of voters to vote for a party that would re-join the EU. But given your confidence in how wonderful the outcome would be ... that can't possibly happen, can it? Don't you believe in Britain?

 

 

[nauseus]

43 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I read that today, an excellent piece of writing, and a reminder of where these things can lead to. 

It's a load of rubbish. Another donut trying to falsely glorify the EU as Europe's peacekeeping power and saviour. The Brexit word is used only once.....in the headline.   

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

If people have a choice between remain, a deal and no deal then there is very little scope for promising "cake and eat it" and "they need us more than we need them" ... these phrases have lost a great deal of credibility. If people vote leave with no deal and it all turns out wonderfully then it would be over ... and presumably that is what you believe will happen? ... but if it doesn't you might well see a move by the younger generation of voters to vote for a party that would re-join the EU. But given your confidence in how wonderful the outcome would be ... that can't possibly happen, can it? Don't you believe in Britain?

 

 

The "cake and eat it" line is actually owned by the EU and its fans. I think the other one would be better said as "they want us more than we want them".  
 

[vinny41]

40 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

It would have to be the same terms, but at least the facts are on the table ... if leavers still believe people want this they should go for it, as victory would settle the matter for a generation.

 

will that include subjects such as more eu integration, Possible adoption of euro, EU army and no more rebates if there not included then the UK would need to state these are all red lines and we can never agree to any of the above

[nauseus]

51 minutes ago, tebee said:

Yes, people really don't realize just how delicate our complex, intertwined society is today. 

 

And how easily it all turns to manure when you start breaking things ......

It's mainly so complex and intertwined because of EU treaties, regulations and directives, which makes it really difficult to exit in an orderly fashion, innit?

[nauseus]

51 minutes ago, tebee said:

Yes, people really don't realize just how delicate our complex, intertwined society is today. 

 

And how easily it all turns to manure when you start breaking things ......

It's mainly so complex and intertwined because of EU treaties, regulations and directives, which makes it really difficult to exit in an orderly fashion, innit?

[Grouse]

41.91 

 

lowest ever THB/GBP

 

Well done Brexiters! ????

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

41.91 

 

lowest ever THB/GBP

 

Well done Brexiters! ????

So wrong but never mind. TGIF.

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

41.91 

 

lowest ever THB/GBP

 

Well done Brexiters! ????

 

On 11/28/2018 at 11:55 PM, adammike said:

I see super rich have the pound at 41:90 I don't follow it that closely but that's as low as I can remember.its gone down 20% since the referendum? They did say all this would happen when Brexit actually happens and we will find out on 11-12 when they vote in parliament.strap in this could be a rough ride.

 

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

41.91 

 

lowest ever THB/GBP

 

Well done Brexiters! ????

According to adammike is was 41.90 yesterday and most of the credit for the drop in sterling should go to the remainers/remoaners

[AlexRich]

31 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The "cake and eat it" line is actually owned by the EU and its fans. I think the other one would be better said as "they want us more than we want them".  
 

The EU only used it after it came out of the mouth of Boris Johnson.

[AlexRich]

31 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

will that include subjects such as more eu integration, Possible adoption of euro, EU army and no more rebates if there not included then the UK would need to state these are all red lines and we can never agree to any of the above

The UK is not in the Euro, and it’s not left the EU yet, so nothing changes. Is this project fear? Lol.