UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Oh come on. Don't tell me you still think Brexit is a sensible idea. You're joking right?

Compared to what is happening now?  Yes, undoubtedly.

 

Hind sight is a wonderful thing, but article 50 should have been invoked immediately after the vote.  I say this, as at the time I posted that there were good reasons for delaying a few months.

 

I freely admit that I was wrong.

 

May agreed with the EU's ridiculous 'negotiating agenda' - which was the first indication that she had no interest in genuinely leaving, despite her protestations otherwise....

 

She then said 'no deal is better than a bad deal' - and this is pretty much the worst deal possible!

 

If she was serious, she would have started preparations for 'no deal' - but she didn't....

 

Meanwhile, project fear continues unabated in the desperate hope that they can force another referendum in which voters will be cowed into voting 'their' way.

 

It didn't work last time, and I hope it doesn't work this time.

 

 

 

 

[Grouse]

56 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nigel-farage/ukip-tommy-robinson-new-bnp/

 

The ramifications for Brexit PR and the cause as a whole could be big, and not in a positive way. I'd agree with Farage that this has not been thought through.

 

????

I am not at all surprised. All the same people. Awful. ???????????????????????????? (flag of Great Yarmouth)

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

I am not at all surprised. All the same people. Awful. ???????????????????????????? (flag of Great Yarmouth)

This right here underscores your ignorance perfectly. You're not alone I'm afraid, which is why I made the comment that I did.

[smedly]

I now believe TM is working against brexit, it is the only rational explanation for such incompitence, it is time for her to step down and get someone in that is a leader and who actually wants to leave the EU, she is disrespecting the vote of the people, she needs to go now

a trade deal and leaving the EU two separate issues, nowhere in article 50 is there a requirement to have a trade deal, what is complicating Brexit is putting these two things together, separate them and it all becomes simple - we leave 20th Mar under WTO

talks on trade can continue once we have officially left, a vote can then take place on a trade deal that won't effect leave or remain because we will have already left, that is what we voted for and that is what article 50 was for - leaving
 

 

also it is worth noting that Bank of England and Treasury forecasts are the absolute worst case scenario based on whatever they want to include to suit an obvious agenda. Maybe they should have produced forecasts based on best case scenario also - not a chance of that

 

As for those that think a second referendum (a so called peoples vote) is the answer - it would solve absolutely nothing, we had the vote, we need to leave the EU just as described during the last vote, it was very clearly explained what it meant and further to that - both main parties stood in a subsequent General Election with manifesto's that clearly stated we would be leaving the CU and SM (85% of voters) ultimately the EU.

 

Labour's current proposal for leaving is also flawed were they want the UK to stay in the CU and SM (a total betrayal), as admitted by them - The UK could not own its own trade policy or negotiate "Independent" trade deals across the world without Brussels being involved. That is a total failure and is worse than the Current Tory Proposal which is pretty bad.

 

What should happen now

 

Simple, TM should be removed as PM and someone that supports leaving this EU mess put in place.

 

The EU is currently on a path similar to the Soviet Union, armies - defence budgets - central control and total power - it is hugely dangerous and a far cry from the Common Trade Market we joined in the seventies - the UK people want no part of it

 

 

[rixalex]

Compared to what is happening now?  Yes, undoubtedly.
 
Hind sight is a wonderful thing, but article 50 should have been invoked immediately after the vote.  I say this, as at the time I posted that there were good reasons for delaying a few months.
 
I freely admit that I was wrong.
 
May agreed with the EU's ridiculous 'negotiating agenda' - which was the first indication that she had no interest in genuinely leaving, despite her protestations otherwise....
 
She then said 'no deal is better than a bad deal' - and this is pretty much the worst deal possible!
 
If she was serious, she would have started preparations for 'no deal' - but she didn't....
 
Meanwhile, project fear continues unabated in the desperate hope that they can force another referendum in which voters will be cowed into voting 'their' way.
 
It didn't work last time, and I hope it doesn't work this time.
 
 
 
 

Even if it does work, take comfort from the fact that having manipulated democracy to get their way, they will have to live with the consequences of that betrayal for a very long time. Live with things like saying that referendums are only advisory and don't need to be implemented. Live with arguing nonsense like having another referendum after two years is justified because people have died.

Oh yes, I know that right now, in the minds of remainers, staying in their beloved EU is worth pretty much any price, but give it a few years, and after having grovelled our way back in to the EU, as the EU faces even bigger challenges that strain relationships further, and as the leave camp unites solidly behind the injustice of Brexit, remainers will come to regret not having allowed the democratic process to take it's full and proper course.

If they just allowed Brexit to happen, and be shown to be the mistake they are so certain it would be, we could have rejoined with the matter put to bed. No arguments. Really put to bed once and for all. They won't let that happen though.

Remainers like to talk about leavers fearing another referendum. I think the truth is that remainers fear Brexit (proper Brexit I mean, not May's pathetic deal) because they fear Britain could make a success of itself and then the EU dream is well and truly over.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Grouse]

40 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

and...more correctly, you still fail to make a valid point of any kind in your very 'succinct' verbal diarrhea, or attempt to challenge any of mine.

Don't like the points I make and many agree with? Tough.

 

We can only hope Grouse season is starting soon.

????

The Grouse season began on the glorious 13th of August because shooting on Sundays is illegal as you will know. The season ends on 11 December so get your Purdey out now!

 

Nice to see you Brexiters still hurdles together for warmth ????

Edited December 3, 2018 by Grouse
Bloody apostrophes sticking their noses in where they're not wanted.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Grouse said:

The Grouse season began on the glorious 13th of August because shooting on Sunday's is illegal as you will know. The season ends on 11 December so get your Purdey out now!

 

Nice to see you Brexiters still hurdles together for warmth ????

As do remainers.  But to be fair, even remainers aren't likely to 'like' a post that is devoid of any argument other than an insult or proclamation of self-perceived superiority.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

16 minutes ago, smedly said:

Simple, TM should be removed as PM and someone that supports leaving this EU mess put in place.

 

The EU is currently on a path similar to the Soviet Union, armies - defence budgets - central control and total power - it is hugely dangerous and a far cry from the Common Trade Market we joined in the seventies - the UK people want no part of it

 

A Brexiteer being in charge is what should have happened from day 1, of course. I hear people say that they 'feel sorry for her' and 'that she never wanted to umpire this absolute mess', ... say what!?

She put herself up for the Prime Ministerial position and won the Tory party vote! So pull the other one!

Her election as PM was the biggest mistake of recent months IMO, as is now all too clear. She has only sabotaged every step of the process and is either conspiring against the result that she was never in favour of, or, is so woefully inept as a negotiator that she has absolutely no place being in such a powerful and important position.

 

The Soviet Union comparison is one that is so often derided by those opposed to Brexit, but there couldn't be a better analogy right now. It seems clear that when you have the likes of Mikhail Gorbachev and Vladimir Bukovsky making the exact same claims some years ago (before subsequent acts of closer union & the EU military were unveiled), everyone should take be taking note. Staggering that the EUSSR still has so many defenders. 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[adammike]

3 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

 

I'm still of the opinion that it is you who will be sorely disappointed, with the possibility of a 'people's vote' being simply that... The audacity of such a name too, unbelievable condescension.

It would seem there isn't time for the government to draft a new bill to put through the Houses / vote on and pass the bill (as they can't agree on the price of tea right now), and then allow the public to vote again - many of whom, I'd wager would abstain or stick to their original opinion. It would then have to be enshrined into UK law. 3 months doesn't seem long enough, but who knows, the amount of skulduggery going on within UK politics, corners could be cut it, so it can't be ruled out. The public's collapse in confidence would be dramatic and long-lasting though, IMO.

 

Bottom line is, the people have spoken and made themselves clear, if that decision is not listened to then democracy is simply whatever the political class want it to be and is no longer dictated by the people - the game would be up. Democracy = (lit.) rule by the people. This infers that our voices are heard and our will listened to, by majority rule. Especially in the instance of national referenda, NOT - 'oh, uh, we didn't like your first answer, have another go, please'. If we are to call ourselves a democracy and keep a straight face, then the people must be listened to. It can be dressed up in any number of ways by those who got the shock of their life in 2016, but the result still stands. Gina Millar and her band of patronising cohorts like to say for example that the issue was too 'complex' for the nation to vote on. Although I dislike her smug arrogance, she does, to some degree, have a point. However a referendum was what was offered to the people, as the gutless politicians didn't want to make the wrong or 'unpopular' decision themselves, so they gave this 'power' to the people. If this is your chosen course of action as a government, spineless in many respects though it is, then you'd better bloody well listen to what the people tell you to do. Otherwise the veil of democracy is liable to fall altogether and people will see modern politics for what it is. The second point worth making about the suggestion of a 2nd ref. is this - if everyone (who didn't get the result they wanted) is so exercised about a referendum being the way the decision was made, and that the issue was and remains a far too complex one for the man/woman in the street to answer - then why on earth would you favour a rerun?!? Totally illogical - unless, perhaps - you're desperately hoping for the first result to be overturned - and imagine that with the aid of project Fear 24/7 and the inevitable political incompetence transforming things into an almighty clusterf*** - you may get just that result. Then the points being made about the first referendum are conveniently forgotten and suddenly referendums and their results are valid once again. Pretty damn subversive, if you ask me. Why any ordinary member of the public would support this kind of subterfuge is unfathomable.

 

The danger now is that Brexit may only be a nominal one, if the 'deal' gets through parliament that is, which still seems unlikely. If it doesn't, well then I just pray that we leave as we were promised we would. Simply meaning no 21 month transition period, no 'divorce' settlement, no 'bespoke' deal - the UK didn't vote for this anyhow. The country simply exits quietly and unceremoniously on March 29th 2019. WTO rules ensue and we take our future in our own hands and make the best of it, restoring long overdue independence and some much needed confidence in our nation and democratic legitimacy. A cull within the political class is sorely needed too, of course.

Should this happen then I and many millions more democratic Britons will have a little faith restored in our country and a little more hope for our future. Fingers firmly x'd.

The numbers that matter are 27-28% of the population voted for Brexit.

37-38% of the electorate voted for Brexit.

The referendum was 52% leave 48% remain.

You won one ballot on one day.

You can spin it any way you want but you can't call it "the will of the people".

The brexiteers lied about everything,there are legitimate questions about their finances and foreign influence still to be answered.

Whatever the outcome the countries of the UK are hopelessly divided.

One good thing is that the campaign for another referendum has put Jeremy Corbyn on the spot he is a leaver but the majority of the "members" of the Labour party are remainers so he has been "hoisted by his own petard" he was elected twice by the members after giving them the power to elect their leader over their MPs.

One way or another their will have to be an election and or another referendum and that may not solve the cluster that is Brexit.

 

[smedly]

 

The brexiteers lied about everything

please explain, consider the fact we have not left yet in your answer

[Jip99]

15 hours ago, Benroon said:

wow - and brexiteers weren't easily led right ? Remind me what it said along Boris's bus that even he admitted was BS ? Even if it was true that £350m would be wiped out by the cost of drugs developed in Europe ! (majority)

 

Brexit was pure and simply a complete abdication of duty by the prime minister by handing over the UK reins to Sun reading, bring back hanging type racists who even to this day are too thick to realise that Brexit applies to Europe only. That the immigrants they are so afraid of will barely be affected.

 

For the record I haven't read a tabloid for years, however until recently I did work for a European bank who have made it quite clear that there are gloomy times ahead for the staff starting this year with zero percent payrises and the scrapping of the bonus pool to build a no deal war chest and the bedlam that will bring. That's real life, not tabloid speak.

 

All the deluded harping on about new trade deals to replace what we have - if you're a potential trade partner and you know the UK is on its arse, which it is about to be in dramatic fashion in the next few weeks when Mays deal is rejected, would you be offering favourable terms ?

 

 

Nothing stereo-typical in that post then......

[elliss]

On 8/10/2018 at 8:56 AM, Baerboxer said:

 

Where does it say that the decision was final and can never be voted on again?

 

Brexiters trying to deny democracy again.

          Fantasy Farage ,  the pied piper leading  the fools. Remember the good old  days ,  Gbp, 45 baht . 

              Any one looked at the recent 5 year forecast for Gbp, not looking pretty.

[dick dasterdly]

14 minutes ago, elliss said:

          Fantasy Farage ,  the pied piper leading  the fools. Remember the good old  days ,  Gbp, 45 baht . 

              Any one looked at the recent 5 year forecast for Gbp, not looking pretty.

????

 

Nobody is saying that it can't be voted on again in a few years time - just that it shouldn't be voted on again until after the referendum vote has been enacted!

 

Edit - For the sake of that insignificant 'thing' that we like to call democracy.....

Edited December 3, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[rixalex]

The numbers that matter are 27-28% of the population voted for Brexit.
37-38% of the electorate voted for Brexit.
The referendum was 52% leave 48% remain.
You won one ballot on one day.
You can spin it any way you want but you can't call it "the will of the people".

"You can spin it any way you want"

Yes, you've just ably demonstrated that.


Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

1 hour ago, adammike said:

The numbers that matter are 27-28% of the population voted for Brexit.

37-38% of the electorate voted for Brexit.

The referendum was 52% leave 48% remain.

You won one ballot on one day.

You can spin it any way you want but you can't call it "the will of the people".

The brexiteers lied about everything,there are legitimate questions about their finances and foreign influence still to be answered.

Whatever the outcome the countries of the UK are hopelessly divided.

One good thing is that the campaign for another referendum has put Jeremy Corbyn on the spot he is a leaver but the majority of the "members" of the Labour party are remainers so he has been "hoisted by his own petard" he was elected twice by the members after giving them the power to elect their leader over their MPs.

One way or another their will have to be an election and or another referendum and that may not solve the cluster that is Brexit.

 

 

This same old tired rhetoric being wheeled out yet again eh?. 

 

27-28% of the population voted for Brexit.

This is not an argument. How many of the remainder were either not eligible to vote at the time or not on the electoral roll? This would likely be the same (if not less) in the event of a re-run. People die and people become of age to vote. The numbers stay roughly the same. The one thing that would change these numbers more significantly is people getting themselves on the electoral roll of their own volition. That may happen in the event of a re-run, something tells me it probably won't, though. 

 

37-38% of the electorate voted for Brexit.

You seem to be ignorant of the fact that those who do not vote do not count in the democratic process, by default! BTW: I can totally understand why people don't usually bother to vote, especially at national/general elections, but this was neither - it was a special (supposed) one-off vote that was given to the people to decide on - regarding one specific issue, and don't forget it was the largest voter turnout in British History. 33+ million people is a huge electoral turnout for the UK - way above anything else we have ever had and the majority of that electorate voted FOR Brexit. That says a lot!

 

You won one ballot on one day.

This is how voting works mate, it happens over a short period and isn't a continuous drawn out process over many days or weeks, for (what should be) obvious reasons. So again - what is your point here? I don't think you have one.

 

You can spin it any way you want but you can't call it "the will of the people".

Very simply - yes it was, yes we can, and we will. Because this is the truth of the matter, inconvenient though it may be for those who didn't get the result they desired. Don't like the current system we have? Then how about proposing a new way of voting?

 

The Brexiteers lied about everything, there are legitimate questions about their finances and foreign influence still to be answered.

There were undoubtedly a lot of lies, exaggerations and distortion of facts put out by both sides, but to be fair, Remain were by far and away worse in this respect. The spending/foreign influence arguments are purely conjecture and none of it has been proven and I doubt ever will be, there is nowhere near enough evidence, the spurious conjecture is all we ever hear of course. I wonder why? The exact same accusation re: government funding, inflated spending allowances & BBC partiality was leveled at the Remain campaign too don't forget. Far less coverage of that of course. The BBC acting as a virtual mouthpiece for Remain for one thing, that inequality is rarely if ever taken into account by Remoaners.

 

Whatever the outcome the countries of the UK are hopelessly divided.

No argument there! Here's to hoping that those who didn't get their way grow up & attempt to unite going forward. It's well overdue at this point.

 

I won't go into the Labour / Corbyn points, but I would like to ask you this:

 

Just say that Remain had won, and you had got your wish for us to stay in the EU no questions asked - in ALL honesty - would you still be making the same erroneous claims that you are?

 

And secondly, let's say the worst case scenario comes to fruition and we are forced into a 2nd ref., we have it and the result comes out at around the same small margin - but with a defeat for Leave, but this time we see a smaller proportion of the population/electorate voting, as I think would be the case, not least because of Brexit ennui; let's say 20% of the total population vote and of that 20% the electorate is reduced to around 30% for Remain vs 28% for Leave, will you still be making the same strident claims about 'the will of the people'? Something tells me you definitely wouldn't and here lies the problem - these trivial claims are just total hypocrisy on your and a great many other Remoaners' behalves. 

 

Lastly, just say we do have the referendum a 2nd time and the result comes back with another slim margin victory for Leave, will you and every other Remainer promise to shut up and move on with your life? 

Edited December 3, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

1 hour ago, adammike said:

 

 

duplicate, apologies.

Edited December 3, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

TVF is going mental! yet another duplicate.

Edited December 3, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[tebee]

47 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

A Brexiteer being in charge is what should have happened from day 1, of course. I hear people say that they 'feel sorry for her' and 'that she never wanted to umpire this absolute mess', ... say what!?

She put herself up for the Prime Ministerial position and won the Tory party vote! So pull the other one!

Her election as PM was the biggest mistake of recent months IMO, as is now all too clear. She has only sabotaged every step of the process and is either conspiring against the result that she was never in favour of, or, is so woefully inept as a negotiator that she has absolutely no place being in such a powerful and important position.

 

The Soviet Union comparison is one that is so often derided by those opposed to Brexit, but there couldn't be a better analogy right now. It seems clear that when you have the likes of Mikhail Gorbachev and Vladimir Bukovsky making the exact same claims some years ago (before subsequent acts of closer union & the EU military were unveiled), everyone should take be taking note. Staggering that the EUSSR still has so many defenders. 

 

I don't think a Brexier in charge of Brexit would have delivered a better Brexit - a different Brexit true, but one that would have been just as divisive and bad for the country albeit in different ways. 

 

Firstly, I don't think there is a "good" brexit out there to be had - if you take a hammer to our highly interdependent and cross-connected  society you will break things with unexpected consequences. Any Brexit will break things and make life  more complicated for businesses and people in general. No one can agree how much needs to be broken and how much the associated extra costs are worth the pain.  No one Brexit plan will command the support of the majority of people who want brexit.

 

Secondly the Brexiters as a whole(by this I mean the politicians who support brexit, not their followers) seem to be stupid, lazy and incompetent, though the relative proportions of these virtues may vary between individuals.  We " have had enough of experts" eh?  There is a reason we have experts. They understand how things work. This lot seem to have no idea how the modern world works and no interest in learning about it. To give but one example. There is all this talk about the wonderful new trade deals we will have. Anybody who knows anything about trade will tell you it is not tariffs that stifle trade these days, but non-tariff barriers   - the SM got rid of these, that is why it facilitates trade so well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

TVF brain-fart again.

Edited December 3, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[tebee]

it would appear TM's plan is to lose the vote in parliament the first time, they try again when using the threat of a no brexit to force it through. What could possibly go wrong?

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6451001/DAN-HODGES-Theresa-tell-MPs-Support-deal-quit.html

 

[transam]

12 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

TVF is going mental! yet another duplicate.

I mowed the lawn....????

[adammike]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

please explain, consider the fact we have not left yet in your answer

More dead cat strategy.I don't have to explain anything it's you brexiteers who will be doing the explaining.

[sandyf]

On 12/2/2018 at 11:15 AM, Grouse said:

Really? Where has that come from?

A brexiteer failing to be clever

[dick dasterdly]

6 minutes ago, tebee said:

it would appear TM's plan is to lose the vote in parliament the first time, they try again when using the threat of a no brexit to force it through. What could possibly go wrong?

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6451001/DAN-HODGES-Theresa-tell-MPs-Support-deal-quit.html

 

In other words, May is playing games trying to get her leave in name only 'deal' (......) accepted by MPs.

 

Of course most MPs are thinking along the same lines - but I doubt this ploy will work as well as she hopes amongst the electorate.

[adammike]

24 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

This same old tired rhetoric being wheeled out yet again eh?. 

 

27-28% of the population voted for Brexit.

This is not an argument. How many of the remainder were either not eligible to vote at the time or not on the electoral roll? This would likely be the same (if not less) in the event of a re-run. People die and people become of age to vote. The numbers stay roughly the same. The one thing that would change these numbers more significantly is people getting themselves on the electoral roll of their own volition. That may happen in the event of a re-run, something tells me it probably won't, though. 

 

37-38% of the electorate voted for Brexit.

You seem to be ignorant of the fact that those who do not vote do not count in the democratic process, by default! BTW: I can totally understand why people don't usually bother to vote, especially at national/general elections, but this was neither - it was a special (supposed) one-off vote that was given to the people to decide on - regarding one specific issue, and don't forget it was the largest voter turnout in British History. 33+ million people is a huge electoral turnout for the UK - way above anything else we have ever had and the majority of that electorate voted FOR Brexit. That says a lot!

 

You won one ballot on one day.

This is how voting works mate, it happens over a short period and isn't a continuous drawn out process over many days or weeks, for (what should be) obvious reasons. So again - what is your point here? I don't think you have one.

 

You can spin it any way you want but you can't call it "the will of the people".

Very simply - yes it was, yes we can, and we will. Because this is the truth of the matter, inconvenient though it may be for those who didn't get the result they desired. Don't like the current system we have? Then how about proposing a new way of voting?

 

The Brexiteers lied about everything, there are legitimate questions about their finances and foreign influence still to be answered.

There were undoubtedly a lot of lies, exaggerations and distortion of facts put out by both sides, but to be fair, Remain were by far and away worse in this respect. The spending/foreign influence arguments are purely conjecture and none of it has been proven and I doubt ever will be, there is nowhere near enough evidence, the spurious conjecture is all we ever hear of course. I wonder why? The exact same accusation re: government funding, inflated spending allowances & BBC partiality was leveled at the Remain campaign too don't forget. Far less coverage of that of course. The BBC acting as a virtual mouthpiece for Remain for one thing, that inequality is rarely if ever taken into account by Remoaners.

 

Whatever the outcome the countries of the UK are hopelessly divided.

No argument there! Here's to hoping that those who didn't get their way grow up & attempt to unite going forward. It's well overdue at this point.

 

I won't go into the Labour / Corbyn points, but I would like to ask you this:

 

Just say that Remain had won, and you had got your wish for us to stay in the EU no questions asked - in ALL honesty - would you still be making the same erroneous claims that you are?

 

And secondly, let's say the worst case scenario comes to fruition and we are forced into a 2nd ref., we have it and the result comes out at around the same small margin - but with a defeat for Leave, but this time we see a smaller proportion of the population/electorate voting, as I think would be the case, not least because of Brexit ennui; let's say 20% of the total population vote and of that 20% the electorate is reduced to around 30% for Remain vs 28% for Leave, will you still be making the same strident claims about 'the will of the people'? Something tells me you definitely wouldn't and here lies the problem - these trivial claims are just total hypocrisy on your and a great many other Remoaners' behalves. 

 

Lastly, just say we do have the referendum a 2nd time and the result comes back with another slim margin victory for Leave, will you and every other Remainer promise to shut up and move on with your life? 

No,I'm retired it's the highlight of my day winding you up.I'm off to north Wales tomorrow for a month, walking the dogs every day.Back to Amsterdam 6 Jan get my visa from the Thai consulate arrive Bangkok 16 Jan till 7 March.Don't do anything to f!#k up the euro from now till January please,behave.

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, adammike said:

The numbers that matter are 27-28% of the population voted for Brexit.

37-38% of the electorate voted for Brexit.

The referendum was 52% leave 48% remain.

You won one ballot on one day.

You can spin it any way you want but you can't call it "the will of the people".

The brexiteers lied about everything,there are legitimate questions about their finances and foreign influence still to be answered.

Whatever the outcome the countries of the UK are hopelessly divided.

One good thing is that the campaign for another referendum has put Jeremy Corbyn on the spot he is a leaver but the majority of the "members" of the Labour party are remainers so he has been "hoisted by his own petard" he was elected twice by the members after giving them the power to elect their leader over their MPs.

One way or another their will have to be an election and or another referendum and that may not solve the cluster that is Brexit.

 

As your focus on numbers Remember that less people voted for Remain

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

 

No,I'm retired it's the highlight of my day winding you up.I'm off to north Wales tomorrow for a month, walking the dogs every day.Back to Amsterdam 6 Jan get my visa from the Thai consulate arrive Bangkok 16 Jan till 7 March.Don't do anything to f!#k up the euro from now till January please,behave.

 

Is that capitulation to reason that I hear? At least you have the good sense to cut your losses. By the way you don't wind me up in the slightest, I enjoy the debate - obviously, it keeps me sharp. Thanks for your efforts.

 

And I'm flattered that you think I have the influence to manipulate currency fluctuations, ta very much. Enjoy Wales, 'Dam and Bangers! I'll try my best to behave until your arrival. You sound a bit like my missus! ????  

Edited December 3, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[transam]

 

No,I'm retired it's the highlight of my day winding you up.I'm off to north Wales tomorrow for a month, walking the dogs every day.Back to Amsterdam 6 Jan get my visa from the Thai consulate arrive Bangkok 16 Jan till 7 March.Don't do anything to f!#k up the euro from now till January please,behave.

Pwllheli...?

[sandyf]

 

The EU does not want to compensate the UK for any money it invested into the EEC/EU over the last 45 years that still exists as tangible assets, like buildings and quite a bit of wine I wouldn't mind having a go at etc. This could have been fairly handled as a lump sum discount from the final divorce bill but the EU Commission does not play fair does it? So there's no chance of that happening.  

You are perfectly free to believe that the wonder woman single handedly brought the EU debt estimate down from the 100 billion mark to the 39 figure.

She had a very good reason for fending off any talk on refunds - self interest.

[sandyf]

 

the UK people want no part of it

 

What makes you think you can talk for the UK people, whoever they are.

Did the Scottish people or the Irish people or the Gibraltar people vote to leave.