Concerned About Poor Standard of Intl Teachers

[smotherb]

14 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Your correct I am only assuming from a common sense view mainly because having had friends teaching all over Thailand they would say the only place you may find a qualified UK teacher would be in a university in Bkk,  unless his/she is some kind of weirdo or likes being out of the frame.

Yes, it may seem so.

[brewsterbudgen]

Yes, it may seem so.

Most TEFL teachers in Thailand have exactly the same types of qualifications as TEFL teachers in other countries, including the UK (a bachelor's degree and CELTA or equivalent). UK language schools tend to insist on a proper TEFL qualification like CELTA or Trinity, while in Thailand it's far less important. 

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[JGV]

Even at International schools the quality of teaching is poor Teach them yourself and use The Internet as the library

[Kwasaki]

6 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

TEFL teachers in Thailand have exactly the same types of qualifications .

I have been told by some it's a joke.

[smotherb]

19 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Most TEFL teachers in Thailand have exactly the same types of qualifications as TEFL teachers in other countries, including the UK (a bachelor's degree and CELTA or equivalent). UK language schools tend to insist on a proper TEFL qualification like CELTA or Trinity, while in Thailand it's far less important. 

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I am pleased to see you said,  "Most TEFL teachers in Thailand . . ." Although I would say, some. I doubt TEFL teachers would be qualified in the UK if they based their qualifications on some of the TEFL courses available here in Thailand.

[brewsterbudgen]

I am pleased to see you said,  "Most TEFL teachers in Thailand . . ." Although I would say, some. I doubt TEFL teachers would be qualified in the UK if they based their qualifications on some of the TEFL courses available here in Thailand.

Possibly not. Some of the short or online TEFL courses have no, or minimal, teaching practice. Most UK jobs require CELTA or Trinity.

That said, a month ago there were hundreds of summer season TEFL jobs in the UK being advertised on TEFL.com and many had minimal requirements. I think some would be desperate enough to accept a bare knuckles TEFL certificate!

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[smotherb]

2 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Possibly not. Some of the short or online TEFL courses have no, or minimal, teaching practice. Most UK jobs require CELTA or Trinity.

That said, a month ago there were hundreds of summer season TEFL jobs in the UK being advertised on TEFL.com and many had minimal requirements. I think some would be desperate enough to accept a bare knuckles TEFL certificate!

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Yes, some may.

[brewsterbudgen]

Yes, some may.

Most likely the EF language mill schools that are inundated with European teenagers on summer break. Brighton is full of them.

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[TravelerEastWest]

On 8/15/2018 at 11:01 PM, bfc1980 said:

I'm sorry but that is not true. Proper international schools are rigorously audited by external inspectors from organisations such as EDT, Cfbt, ISQM, ONESCA etc. Having just been through and EDT inspection where we received an outstanding judgement, I can say that no stone is left unturned in their inspection process. In fact, it is the same or more rigorous than an Ofsted inspection from the UK. The inspectors themselves are Ofsted inspectors highly experienced and very well respected in their fields. 

 

Probably the "international school" you're referring to is not a proper one and as such you shouldn't tarnish all international schools with the same brush. So long as your own children don't go to that school, stop stressing and enjoy life. 

 

A "proper" International school is one which has a high percentage of expat children, invests in their teachers through CPD and pays their teachers very well to attract the very best (starting salary of at least 100k baht per month increasing for each year of experience, housing allowance on top of the monthly salary, additional pay for extra responsibilities, international medical insurance that covers pre existing conditions and all illnesses, pregnancy and diseases for teacher and all dependents, flight allowance each year for teacher and all dependents, 1 or 2 month bonus each year, relocation allowance at the beginning and end of contract and free tuition fees for their children. 

 

Therefore, for a teacher with around 10 years of experience a wife and 2 kids, the benefits package in total is easily worth well in excess of 200k baht per month. 

Correct.

[BobbyL]

On 8/15/2018 at 3:58 PM, atyclb said:

 

 

and what is the monthly wage at these top schools?

Similar, if not more than in the UK.

 

100k / month ++ minimum and you're getting qualified and experienced teachers. 

 

If the OP is referring to some cowboy outfit with unqualified teachers then generally that is what you get. People here doing just about anything to extend their stay, rather than people who have made a career as teachers. However, you will only find them in the expensive international style schools. 

[BobbyL]

On 8/16/2018 at 7:47 AM, Baerboxer said:

My daughter started this year at a very expensive school which supposedly only employs highly qualified experienced foreign teachers. Her British Home Room teacher has been having inappropriate Line and phone chats with my wife and trying very hard to persuade her to have sex with him! Completely unconcerned about the disaster for her family or his pupil!

 

And he's the Home Room teacher for a class containing 16 teenage girls! Low morals and not here for the salary.

 

 

I am assuming you have reported him then. Any school with Western management would not allow that at all. 

[Baerboxer]

Just now, BobbyL said:

I am assuming you have reported him then. Any school with Western management would not allow that at all. 

 

Appropriate actions are happening.

[DavisH]

On 8/15/2018 at 8:28 PM, PeterA said:

Thai schools will pass a kid to the next class, proficient in the studies or not.

You mean like No Child Left Behind?

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/aug/09/no-child-left-behind-bill-unsuccessful-report-us-schools

 

This problem exists in most countries to varying degrees. The main problem in Thailand in lack of support for slow learners or those with learning disabilities. 

[5633572526]

Maybe the teachers are just trying to blend in with the locals. 

[A Lurker]

On 8/15/2018 at 8:48 AM, gwynt said:

Agreed, we tried international school but was very disappointed so now I home school our son with  a Thai teacher coming in twice a week to teach Thai language.

Is this a long term plan for you? I'm considering doing the same as I know I can definitely do better than the "international" schools in my area. The only thing stopping me is the worry that my half Thai child will not have the appropriate official schooling requirements/certificates to be able to enter the workforce here or abroad. Otherwise I would do it tomorrow. It's a big conundrum.

 

Would love to hear more about homeschoolers in Thailand.

[LennyW]

Load of <deleted>, the international schools in Banchang consistently turn out some of the top students in Asia, not just Thailand.

I know many of the teachers personally and  they are normal human beings like anyone else, but some are top educators.

"and the town is a bit rubbish in general" And what the hell is that supposed to mean?, Banchang is a great place to stay, i think the OP might be the problem, not the schools or teachers or the town!!

[Big Guns]

I completely agree with you Lenny. Some of the students at the Chang International schools have gone to the top universities in the UK & USA. I also know of highly skilled & qualified educators at these schools.Ban Chang itself is a pleasant place to live & I'd have no desire to live in Pattaya or Bangkok.

[gwynt]

4 hours ago, A Lurker said:

Is this a long term plan for you? I'm considering doing the same as I know I can definitely do better than the "international" schools in my area. The only thing stopping me is the worry that my half Thai child will not have the appropriate official schooling requirements/certificates to be able to enter the workforce here or abroad. Otherwise I would do it tomorrow. It's a big conundrum.

 

Would love to hear more about homeschoolers in Thailand.

I have done a few searches on home school groups but the one I found has stopped functioning.

I will continue to home school as there are few options in Thailand.

I use an American online program, Education .com, which works mostly with the exception of coinage $ and measurement, Imperial as opposed to metric.

I just develop these myself, we generally follow up on what he has interest in.

We visited the education department to enquire about legality and what we have to do is get a form supplied by them filled by a teacher/ school to confirm he is achieving their standards, which isn't difficult.  

[A Lurker]

18 hours ago, gwynt said:

We visited the education department to enquire about legality and what we have to do is get a form supplied by them filled by a teacher/ school to confirm he is achieving their standards, which isn't difficult.  

Well that sounds easier than I thought. You visited the education department in Bangkok? Did you have any difficulty convincing a local teacher/school to fill out the form? How, for example, would they know you are achieving their standards? Don't suppose the child is eligible for any official documentation if he continues to get these forms signed off?

 

Thanks heaps for this.

 

 

[gwynt]

2 hours ago, A Lurker said:

Well that sounds easier than I thought. You visited the education department in Bangkok? Did you have any difficulty convincing a local teacher/school to fill out the form? How, for example, would they know you are achieving their standards? Don't suppose the child is eligible for any official documentation if he continues to get these forms signed off?

 

Thanks heaps for this.

 

 

We actually went to education dept. In Banglamung as we live in the area.

As we have a Thai teacher to teach my son Thai language she agreed to complete the form.

She incorporates my sons interest into the Thai lesson maths,  science etc she has a knowledge of his standard of progress.

To be honest the on line program categorizes which year/ grade he is achieving.

He is 7 yo so officially just finished year one, but we have been covering year two for some time and in some cases touching on year three.

[My Thai Life]

On 8/19/2018 at 7:46 AM, A Lurker said:

The only thing stopping me is the worry that my half Thai child will not have the appropriate official schooling requirements/certificates to be able to enter the workforce here or abroad.

I think you have raised a very reasonable concern.

 

But in my opinion, the biggest problem with home schooling is that the child does not get the "socialisation" required to develop necessary social and psychological skills. I can hear the mob baying "eh, social skills in Thailand, you must be joking". Ok, so take your children back to your home country if you're really that worried, that would be the responsible thing to do.

 

My daughter attends a standard Thai school, she also has a range of private lessons, she is top of her class in most subjects, and of course way ahead in English, and she has many friends. I am happy with her development.

Edited August 21, 2018 by My Thai Life

[George Bowman]

When I first started teaching in Bangkok,  there were maybe 20 or so international schools around. And even back then, some of them were a bit iffy.  But, there were also a handful of schools that would have put schools in the UK or the USA to shame. When I retired from teaching, there were around 70 international schools in Thailand and more seem to pop up every month. Therein, lies the problem.

 

The market place in Thailand is not big enough to pay for qualified teachers in all of these international schools. Think of it this way. Let's pretend an international school only charges B200,000 a year. Actually, I don't think any do. Anyway, how many Thais can afford this? How many expats make B200,000 a month? Not that many. 

 

Another ploy used by most international schools is they often advertise that many of their graduates have been accepted to attend top universities throughout the world. Which is true. Often in the spring the Bangkok Post will have ads from schools showing the students and where they will be attending a university. Here is another truth. Universities in the states love to accept international students as they generally have to pay about three times the amount a local student would have to pay. Plus,  they think it makes the school more global in the market. And yes it is also true that scholarships are available. But in reality, the schools want the cash and are not big into handouts. 

 

At the end of the day, being accepted to and actually attending a university is two separate things.

Edited August 29, 2018 by missoura

[IntEdSource]

On 8/30/2018 at 5:13 AM, missoura said:

Anyway, how many Thais can afford this? How many expats make B200,000 a month? Not that many. 

There are actually plenty of Thais who can afford them, hence the very large number of existing schools, most of which either have steady or growing enrollment. Of the well-established international schools, only St. John's has permanently closed, and that was after years of experiencing multiple internal issues. This may change as the market becomes even further saturated, but at this point there is enough demand.
 

 

On 8/30/2018 at 5:13 AM, missoura said:

At the end of the day, being accepted to and actually attending a university is two separate things.

You're spot-on in your assessment of this area. Look at the graduation announcements or news releases from ISB, BPS and NIST compared to other schools. These three release matriculation lists: where their students will attend or are currently attending. Others more often just publish acceptances lists, but few of the graduates actually go on to attend those universities.

Building on this, how many universities are students applying to? In the case of the big three, students are limited in the number of applications they can make in order to assure universities that the applications are serious. Other schools encourage students to apply to as many as possible in order to bolster their acceptances lists.

Edited August 31, 2018 by IntEdSource

[jayboy]

 
Appropriate actions are happening.

Sorry to hear of your bad experience.

It raises the question I have often wondered about - namely the appropriate formal checks made on teachers before taking up employment.In the UK such checks are absolutely mandatory now.

I suspect that with the exception of elite schools here that recruit from abroad such checks are not carried out.But I’m not sure.


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[Baerboxer]

Just now, jayboy said:

 

 

Sorry to hear of your bad experience.

It raises the question I have often wondered about - namely the appropriate formal checks made on teachers before taking up employment.In the UK such checks are absolutely mandatory now.

I suspect that with the exception of elite schools here that recruit from abroad such checks are not carried out.But I’m not sure.


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I think you are probably correct and it's worrying. This particular persons lewd behavior and complete lack of morals sends worrying signals when he's around teenage girls and teaching them a number of subjects including health which deals with sexual matters.

 

In the UK I'd have no hesitation in reporting him. Here, the lawyers recommend certain steps have to be followed.

 

Unfortunately, I suspect he has a track record of similar behavior and of leaving others to pick up the pieces when he moves on.

 

Maybe Karma will pay him back.

 

[samsensam]

On 8/15/2018 at 4:27 AM, milwaukeeboy said:

As an educational consultant, I can confirm that the state of education, both public and private, around the world is mostly deplorable. And it has only been getting worse over the past few decades.

 

i've worked in educational management for years, dont assume that because a foreigner is teaching at an international school in thailand that they have relevant qualifications and experience. for  organisations i manage if you dont have relevant qualification/s and experience, references and DBS/COGC (where relevant) you stand absolute zero chance of being employed. the vast majority of educational employers in thailand dont, sadly, have the same quality control and risk assessment measures when employing staff.

 

if i had concerns about any teacher teaching my child i would request confirmation of relevant qualifications, experience and that background checks had been carried out. if i didnt receive a satisfactory response i would get in touch with the relevant authorities.

[jayboy]

30 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I think you are probably correct and it's worrying. This particular persons lewd behavior and complete lack of morals sends worrying signals when he's around teenage girls and teaching them a number of subjects including health which deals with sexual matters.

 

In the UK I'd have no hesitation in reporting him. Here, the lawyers recommend certain steps have to be followed.

 

Unfortunately, I suspect he has a track record of similar behavior and of leaving others to pick up the pieces when he moves on.

 

Maybe Karma will pay him back.

 

Obviously in Thailand there's no Disclosure and Barring service which in the UK helps protect vulnerable people especially children when considering recruitment.

 

Thus it seems to me international schools - however defined, ie including the full spectrum from the elite to the obscure - in Thailand have a particular duty of due diligence when taking new teachers on.

 

Typically a decent school in the UK would insist all applicants must be willing to undergo child protection screening including checks with past employers and criminal records.

 

When recruiting from overseas these checks can be carried out without too much difficulty.The trickier aspect is when recruiting in Thailand since there is as far as I know no sharing or pooling of information among international schools.Thus there is a particular responsibility to check out teachers who move from school to school within Thailand.

 

Ultimately in Thailand the responsibility must fall on the school leadership for ensuring recruits are the right sort.

 

[Slip]

As far as I know any teacher starting in the OBEC system these days is required to have a police check by law- (Not always the case- I have never been asked to submit one in many years).  I don't think the same is true for international schools.  With regard to qualifications, I know a supposedly 'kosher' international school in one of the southern tourist towns that took on a teacher whose lack of a degree was making it a bit hot locally here in Thai town, though that is a few years ago now.

[BobbyL]

Any decent school (international or even private) should insist on people showing them an enhanced DBS and / or an ICPC certificate. If they're being recruited from abroad then it must happen. That is what I had to do and have been told by many others they did the same.

 

If they're moving from one school to another in Thailand they should still be required to submit a new ICPC and a police check from Thailand. 

 

The places where these things obviously don't take place are at government schools or the agency places.