Need to refill Honda Civic radiator every few days

[scorecard]

Located in Chiang Mai. We have an old Honda Civic 3 door, bought new about 17/18 years ago.

 

Car has always been well maintained and it's the family aim is to keep it in good order for my eldest grandchild.

 

Lots of work done on the engine, gears, new radiator etc., over the last few years. 

 

One item that's confusing, mechanic shops say that the radiator on this Honda Civic model must be refilled every few days.

 

My Thai son keeps refilling the radiator (a lot of water not small top ups) also fills the small overflow tank.

 

Son just forgot to top up the water and the engine overheated.

 

I've checked many times, there is never any leaked water under the car and never spotted leaked water sitting in the engine area.

 

Twice the engine has been opened for routine repairs / maintenance in the two years. both times my son asked the mechanic shops to see if water is going into the engine, apart from the areas where it should be. Both times, no water evident.

 

My question for the experts, Is it true that the radiator on this Honda Civic model must be refilled every few days? (I've never heard of this for any car.)

 

Any comments or suggestions much appreciated. Thanks. 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by scorecard

[simoh1490]

No it's not true, a blown head gasket perhaps?

[transam]

If there is a small amount of water being drawn into the cylinder via the head gasket or a crack it probably will not show up.....

Our lads 2010 uses water but all seems OK...But l reckon he may have an early days ploblem...

 

To carry on topping up you must use anti-freeze to stop corrosion, wait and see what happens...

 

The engine may need the head skimmed or the head inspected for a crack.....

[simoh1490]

Perhaps useful to check if there's any white smoke from the exhaust, if so it might be steam being burned off and indicative of a crack or blown gasket. But any decent mechanic should be able to do a pressure check on the cooling system, maybe your mechanic doesn't have the device needed to do that?

[Vacuum]

Have you checked the dipstick for traces of water?

[Lacessit]

There are many cheapskates in Thailand who use water in the radiator in lieu of coolant. Water boils at 100 C, coolant at 120 - 130 C depending on the concentration used.

Coolants not only increase the heat capacity of the radiator, they also have corrosion inhibitors which help protect the combination of alloys present in most engines.

The problem may be as simple as the radiator boiling off water, so it needs topping up frequently. Some mechanics also remove the thermostat valve to improve water flow, which gives rise to more evaporation.

If a radiator needs topping up every couple of days, there's something wrong. I only check mine once a month, and it has never needed a top up.

Get a second opinion. Take the car to a Honda service centre. There are many auto mechanics in Thailand not worthy of the name.

 

[scorecard]

13 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

There are many cheapskates in Thailand who use water in the radiator in lieu of coolant. Water boils at 100 C, coolant at 120 - 130 C depending on the concentration used.

Coolants not only increase the heat capacity of the radiator, they also have corrosion inhibitors which help protect the combination of alloys present in most engines.

The problem may be as simple as the radiator boiling off water, so it needs topping up frequently. Some mechanics also remove the thermostat valve to improve water flow, which gives rise to more evaporation.

If a radiator needs topping up every couple of days, there's something wrong. I only check mine once a month, and it has never needed a top up.

Get a second opinion. Take the car to a Honda service centre. There are many auto mechanics in Thailand not worthy of the name.

 

 

Thanks for all the replies from several members, lots of things to consider and check.

 

Can I buy coolant at most service stations, or where ??

 

In regard to the overheating (yesterday) my son already has a quote for repairs of 8,000Baht but I don't yet have any details, I will now insist on fitting a new head gasket and request the head be inspected for cracks etc.

 

@lacessit, thanks for your valuable comments. We have previously tried 2 Honda service centres here in Chiang Mai for engine problems, way less than impressed both times, which is the reverse of the excellent HONDA service we experienced for years in Bkk. 

 

Thanks again to all. 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by scorecard

[simoh1490]

If it were me I wouldn't replace the head gasket unless I knew for sure there was a problem with it or with the head and there are simple checks that can be done to confirm those things, any decent dealership will have the necessary kit to do those things.

 

But your most recent post mentions an overheating problem, is the car overheating and does the temperature gauge confirm that? If so, the problem may be something as simple as a stuck thermostat although that wouldn't give you an 8k repair bill!.

[transam]

6 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Thanks for all the replies from several members, lots of things to consider and check.

 

Can I buy coolant at most service stations, or where ??

 

In regard to the overheating (yesterday) my son already has a quote for repairs of 8,000Baht but I don't yet have any details, I will now insist on fitting a new head gasket and request the head be inspected for cracks etc.

 

@lacessit, thanks for your valuable comments. We have previously tried 2 Honda service centres here in Chiang Mai for engine problems, way less than impressed both times, which is the reverse of the excellent HONDA service we experienced for years in Bkk. 

 

Thanks again to all. 

 

 

If they pull the head for a gasket change get the head skimmed....

[Lacessit]

12 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

If it were me I wouldn't replace the head gasket unless I knew for sure there was a problem with it or with the head and there are simple checks that can be done to confirm those things, any decent dealership will have the necessary kit to do those things.

 

But your most recent post mentions an overheating problem, is the car overheating and does the temperature gauge confirm that? If so, the problem may be something as simple as a stuck thermostat although that wouldn't give you an 8k repair bill!.

Many cars don't have temperature gauges. They have idiot lights instead. The meaning being you're an idiot if you ignore them.

8K for a Honda? They must think they are working on a Merc.

[simoh1490]

40 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Many cars don't have temperature gauges. They have idiot lights instead. The meaning being you're an idiot if you ignore them.

8K for a Honda? They must think they are working on a Merc.

A seventeen-year-old car....I'm betting it has a gauge.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

I've checked many times, there is never any leaked water under the car and never spotted leaked water sitting in the engine area.

 

Sounds like Head gasket, piston rings,  check exhaust and oil for water signs.

No way around it unless it's fixed quickly or more damage will occur.

[scorecard]

35 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

A seventeen-year-old car....I'm betting it has a gauge.

Yes it has a small semi-circle gauge with a small red pointer, all built into the dashboard and it does seem to be working.

 

When cold the pointer goes down to baseline then up to about 20% of the gauge range when the engine is working,  

 

 

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Yes it has a small semi-circle gauge with a small red pointer, all built into the dashboard and it does seem to be working.

 

When cold the pointer goes down to baseline then up to about 20% of the gauge range when the engine is working,  

 

 

That suggests the engine is NOT overheating and that it's not a thermostat issue......a head gasket/leak test would be my prefered way to go, they can test the water to see if exhaust fumes are getting in the coolant, it's a simple and quick test.

[scorecard]

34 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

That suggests the engine is NOT overheating and that it's not a thermostat issue......a head gasket/leak test would be my prefered way to go, they can test the water to see if exhaust fumes are getting in the coolant, it's a simple and quick test.

Interesting I have noticed that the radiator water (water, not coolant) has a oil based 'sort of blueish shiny mottling'.

 

A different point, could all of this be a factor in excessive use of gasoline, for a while and just recently even more the car seems to use a lot more gasoline than years earlier. 

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by scorecard

[PoorSucker]

Your water pump is broken.

[simoh1490]

6 minutes ago, PoorSucker said:

Your water pump is broken.

But the engine temperature doesn't rise and there's no obvious leaking when stationary.

[simoh1490]

17 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Interesting I have noticed that the radiator water (water, not coolant) has a oil based 'sort of blueish shiny mottling'.

 

A different point, could all of this be a factor in excessive use of gasoline, for a while and just recently even more the car seems to use a lot more gasoline than years earlier. 

 

Water pressure is usually higher than oil pressure hence when a head gasket breaks or a crack develops, it's usually water that leaks or is forced into the engine, it would be unusual in my experience for oil to be forced into the cooling system. That said, the oil shouldn't be there hence that's your problem I would guess, the question is why....maybe it is the head, dunno, but a decent Honda mechanic will be able to tell you.

[scorecard]

9 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

But the engine temperature doesn't rise and there's no obvious leaking when stationary.

The water pump was replaced about one year back.

 

(Part of the situation is that my knowledge of this subject is very limited and my 36 year old Thais sons' knowledge is even less, and I suspect the small mechanic shops he goes to are taking advantage. However also true these places have been 'recommended' by his buddies but I suspect their knowledge is also limited.)

Edited August 22, 2018 by scorecard

[upu2]

3 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

No it's not true, a blown head gasket perhaps?

If so he will be getting smoke from the exhaust but he doesnt mention anything like that. Could it be a water pipe that is leaking under pressure as he drives?

Edited August 22, 2018 by upu2

[scorecard]

4 minutes ago, upu2 said:

If so he will be getting smoke from the exhaust but he doesnt mention anything like that. Could it be a water pipe that is leaking under pressure as he drives?

 

I haven't checked the colour of the smoke. My understand is that normal smoke is virtually colourless, is that correct?

 

[simoh1490]

Just now, scorecard said:

 

I haven't checked the colour of the smoke. My understand is that normal smoke is virtually colourless, is that correct?

 

Yes, but white smoke would indicate steam or water being combusted.

[upu2]

1 minute ago, scorecard said:

 

I haven't checked the colour of the smoke. My understand is that normal smoke is virtually colourless, is that correct?

 

Yes. If the cylinder head gasket has gone it will be white colour

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, upu2 said:

Yes. If the cylinder head gasket has gone it will be white colour

Only if the crack allows water into the combustion chamber, if it merely allows water into the engine block the colour of the exhaust won't change but oil could conceivably show up in the water.

[vogie]

Have you checked the radiator cap, is it perished?

 

 

[stud858]

as others said, water boiling off maybe.

 

i would drain the water/coolant, and put in new coolant.

be careful, the mechanics will dilute the premix coolant even further. make sure they use full strength premix and dont add any water.

and confirm the price for doing it properly with a stop leak mixed in as well.

theres a good shop on sukhumvit rd selling coolant and stop leaks. yellow signed. I forget the name.

heading south close to south rd intersection.

 

let the stop leak do its job over driving for  while. top up if necessary. and monitor.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by stud858

[scorecard]

19 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Only if the crack allows water into the combustion chamber, if it merely allows water into the engine block the colour of the exhaust won't change but oil could conceivably show up in the water.

 For Chiang Mai members;

 

In the past many members have recommended Pro Auto at Hang Dong, would this shop be a good option to get a knowledgeable mechanic to take a look / do repairs?

 

To be honest I don't want to rush to Honda, we've had bad experiences with 2 Honda service centres in CM, plus 2 of my sons buddies had same experience.

 

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, stud858 said:

as others said, water boiling off maybe.

 

i would drain the water/coolant, and put in new coolant.

be careful, the mechanics will dilute the premix coolant even further. make sure they use full strength premix and dont add plain water.

and confirm the price for doing it properly with a stop leak mixed in as well.

theres a good shop on sukhumvit rd selling coolant and stop leaks. yellow signed. I forget the name.

heading south close to south rd intersection.

 

let the stop leak do its job over driving for  while. top up if necessary. and monitor.

 

 

 

 

 

There are a lot of mixed reviews about Stop Leak, many say it can clog up your matrix, personally I wouldn't use it, but that is only my view. It is normally better to identify the problem and fix it that way, IMO.

[stud858]

5 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 For Chiang Mai members;

 

In the past many members have recommended Pro Auto at Hang Dong, would this shop be a good option to get a knowledgeable mechanic to take a look / do repairs?

 

To be honest I don't want to rush to Honda, we've had bad experiences with 2 Honda service centres in CM, plus 2 of my sons buddies had same experience.

 

Where ever you go , I recommend sticking around to watch if possible. And take pictures of your car and its parts like fuse/relay box and  things like that, so if any funny business takes place you will have proof.

I had one mechanic swap over a good relay with a bad one. No biggie. 1$ on aliexpress and my horn works again.

[transam]

41 minutes ago, upu2 said:

Yes. If the cylinder head gasket has gone it will be white colour

But depends on the amount of water to actually notice anything out the back end. My fun ride at one time had water injection, no white smoke in use...

I had a head on another car crack, l could not see it with my eye, seemed it opened as the thing got hot under combustion stuff/engine heat..Had a crack test..