Need to refill Honda Civic radiator every few days

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Interesting I have noticed that the radiator water (water, not coolant) has a oil based 'sort of blueish shiny mottling'.

 

A different point, could all of this be a factor in excessive use of gasoline, for a while and just recently even more the car seems to use a lot more gasoline than years earlier. 

 

I have used J&N Auto in the past in Chiang Mai., did a good job but somewhat expensive. Jimmy speaks very good English. I have a trusted mechanic in Chiang Rai, not that the info is much use to you.

The bluish colour may be traces of coolant - they are usually green or blue. Sip[hon off a bit of radiator water and smell it - gasoline would be fairly obvious.

I'd suggest warming up the engine to normal operating temperature, then observe the exhaust while someone ramps up the revs. Any kind of smoke indicates a problem.

It's possible the mechanics you've been using have adjusted the fuel supply to run rich, which would explain higher fuel consumption. Or it could be just engine wear. What is the odometer reading?

I'm inclined to agree with the head gasket hypothesis at this stage.

[nanglong218]

It's terminal,  you've cooked it.   You change the head gasket only to find the block is warped or porous.  

Give it up, it will drag money from you faster than your Thai gf.

[scorecard]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I have used J&N Auto in the past in Chiang Mai., did a good job but somewhat expensive. Jimmy speaks very good English. I have a trusted mechanic in Chiang Rai, not that the info is much use to you.

The bluish colour may be traces of coolant - they are usually green or blue. Sip[hon off a bit of radiator water and smell it - gasoline would be fairly obvious.

I'd suggest warming up the engine to normal operating temperature, then observe the exhaust while someone ramps up the revs. Any kind of smoke indicates a problem.

It's possible the mechanics you've been using have adjusted the fuel supply to run rich, which would explain higher fuel consumption. Or it could be just engine wear. What is the odometer reading?

I'm inclined to agree with the head gasket hypothesis at this stage.

We have never put coolant in the radiator, only water.

 

Odometer - 265,000K. For many years the car was only used for short trips a couple of times a week plus for 20 months not used when I was on a project in Japan, but started every month and let run for an hour. so the total kilometres on the clock for 17/18 yr old car not that high. 

 

 

[nanglong218]

Everything is wrong.  Coolant is not antifreeze,  it inhibits corrosion,  water the worst,   Short journeys, stop start hot cold.  Expand,  contract.  Was the oil and filter changed after 20 months sitting idle.

I chased my tail on a Ford Cortina, Pinto engine.  Cooked it, changed the head gasket. Leaked so had it machined. New gasket, still leaked.  Engine out, block shaved. Cured it. Worth the price for a cheap motor,  No.

Up to you.

 

[Lacessit]

25 minutes ago, scorecard said:

We have never put coolant in the radiator, only water.

 

Odometer - 265,000K. For many years the car was only used for short trips a couple of times a week plus for 20 months not used when I was on a project in Japan, but started every month and let run for an hour. so the total kilometres on the clock for 17/18 yr old car not that high. 

 

 

Engines in taxis last for up to 1 million kilometres because they are always running hot. Most wear in an engine occurs from short frequent trips where the engine rarely gets up to its correct operating temperature. Idling a car for an hour IMHO wouldn't do it much good either.

Check your owner's manual. If it specifies coolant in the radiator system, the engine life has probably been shortened considerably due to corrosion of engine alloys. From memory, Honda was one of the first auto manufacturers to move away from cast iron engine blocks to save on vehicle weight. Coolant is specified for a reason.

[nanglong218]

Coolant has been specified for many years.  In the 70s as a truck mechanic in the UK we filled them with 50/50 ethylene glychol. (?).   No doubt we've moved along.    Cooking ie overheating an engine is very serious and normally terminal depending on the value of the car.  

Can you get factory replacement engines in Thailand,  like the UK.

Hand your car to your Honda dealer with a blank cheque if you feel lucky.

[simoh1490]

59 minutes ago, nanglong218 said:

It's terminal,  you've cooked it.   You change the head gasket only to find the block is warped or porous.  

Give it up, it will drag money from you faster than your Thai gf.

Rubbish.

[nanglong218]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

Rubbish.

Explain

[scorecard]

Just to confuse the whole thing, just got a message from my son, he took the car to a mechanic shop, they called back an hour later 'they cleaned something, all OK now, 400Baht'.

 

I'll take it to Pro Auto as soon as I return to CM next Saturday. 

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, nanglong218 said:

Coolant has been specified for many years.  In the 70s as a truck mechanic in the UK we filled them with 50/50 ethylene glychol. (?).   No doubt we've moved along.    Cooking ie overheating an engine is very serious and normally terminal depending on the value of the car.  

Can you get factory replacement engines in Thailand,  like the UK.

Hand your car to your Honda dealer with a blank cheque if you feel lucky.

Ethylene glycol raises the boiling point and depresses the freezing point of water. It is not a corrosion inhibitor, there are other additives in coolant for that.

An engine has a lot of narrow passageways to enable heat transfer from the combustion chambers to the coolant/water. When those passageways corrode, nasty things such as reduced heat transfer and warping of junctions occur, which assist in shortening engine life.

I understand second-hand engines come from Japan, where keeping a car for more than two years is prohibitively expensive due to their environmental laws. V8's from Toyota's Lexus line are used as replacement engines in Mercs and Beemers here. I don't know what the situation with Honda is.

[simoh1490]

Just now, nanglong218 said:

Explain

You've taken a giant leap from learning that a car has been losing water, no other symptoms, to a cooked engine where the car must be scrapped., Rubbish.

[nanglong218]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

You've taken a giant leap from learning that a car has been losing water, no other symptoms, to a cooked engine where the car must be scrapped., Rubbish.

He says the car overheated.  

[nanglong218]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Ethylene glycol raises the boiling point and depresses the freezing point of water. It is not a corrosion inhibitor, there are other additives in coolant for that.

An engine has a lot of narrow passageways to enable heat transfer from the combustion chambers to the coolant/water. When those passageways corrode, nasty things such as reduced heat transfer and warping of junctions occur, which assist in shortening engine life.

I understand second-hand engines come from Japan, where keeping a car for more than two years is prohibitively expensive due to their environmental laws. V8's from Toyota's Lexus line are used as replacement engines in Mercs and Beemers here. I don't know what the situation with Honda is.

I said no doubt we have moved on.  I'm not a chemist. But back then water was discouraged/

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, nanglong218 said:

He says the car overheated.  

Only in your dreams did he say that....read the thread.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, nanglong218 said:

I said no doubt we have moved on.  I'm not a chemist. But back then water was discouraged/

It was probably discouraged because as I understand it, the UK can be cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey. In Oz, we have the opposite problem. Ethylene glycol helps both ways.

[nanglong218]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Only in your dreams did he say that....read the thread.

Try line six of OP's first post

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, nanglong218 said:

Try line six of OP's first post

Then read post 13....and then read all the posts!

[nanglong218]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

Then read post 13....and then read all the posts!

You trust the gauge over the symptoms??   Ever the optomist.

[nanglong218]

23 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Just to confuse the whole thing, just got a message from my son, he took the car to a mechanic shop, they called back an hour later 'they cleaned something, all OK now, 400Baht'.

 

I'll take it to Pro Auto as soon as I return to CM next Saturday. 

Easy 400 baht,    They cleaned something.....oh dear.

[simoh1490]

There's a repair shop I've used in CM with some sucess, it's called K Ingh and is located just off narwatkate, about twoo hundred metres this side of the super highway - go over the narawat bridge heading out of town and turn left down the soi with the 7/11 on the left corner and Kasikorn up ahead on the right, he's located down the soi on the left after a couple hundred metres

[nanglong218]

I'm sorry I've had to cross swords with people on this matter.   I trained as a truck mechanic in the 60s/70s.  I have a fair bit of experience with cars especially in the crossover  of engine basics.  I've lifted heads before and found chunks of block missing due to excess heat.

Do what they do in the trade.  Fit a new gasket and hope it gets round the block,  then sell it to the first sucker at whatever price he beats you down to.  Then leave town.  You are not that kind of man,  nor am I.

Try Simoh's suggestion but don't commit yourself to an open ended deal.  Any garage I worked for would turn you away because the money is in servicing, brake pads, clutches..  They don't want you coming back saying it still leaks.

[stubuzz]

3 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

3 hours ago, PoorSucker said:

Your water pump is broken.

But the engine temperature doesn't rise and there's no obvious leaking when stationary. 

The gauge wont register if there isn't any water flowing over it. Get a hand held IR thermometer and check the temperature of the top and bottom hoses. Expect to see a temp of about 80c when warm.

[simoh1490]

51 minutes ago, stubuzz said:

The gauge wont register if there isn't any water flowing over it. Get a hand held IR thermometer and check the temperature of the top and bottom hoses. Expect to see a temp of about 80c when warm.

Also not true, the sensor in the block will react to rising temperatures and send the gauge off the scale, the sensor detects heat not water flow and is not dependent on water flow.

[mogandave]

1. Adding water/coolant is not normal. If it’s not leaking, it’s burning. It’s has to go somewhere.
2. I would not waste money on coolant until I figured out where it was going.
3. Water has better cooling properties than coolant. That said, it does not provide any corrosion resistance, does not lubricate the water pump, boils at a lower temperature and freezes.
4. I would try flushing the system, a leak may become more apparent.
5. I would buy a new, correct OEM cap.
6. Take it someplace that has the equipment to do a proper pressure test.

[Anythingleft?]

You should not have to refill the coolant system
Check the radiator cap for the correct pressure rating, if this is not correct you can be boiling water off
Check the system against a set pressure to check for leaks on a cold engine and at normal running temperature
If there are no visual external water marks around the hose connections then the water has to be being boiled off (not going into the oil as has already been determined)

There's not too many places for the water to go.....

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[Lacessit]

10 hours ago, mogandave said:

3. Water has better cooling properties than coolant.
 

Coolant is of the order of 80 - 90% water. Permit me to doubt the "better" cooling properties are significant.

Having said that, I'd agree until the problem is identified correctly, coolant would be a waste.

 

[mogandave]

Coolant is of the order of 80 - 90% water. Permit me to doubt the "better" cooling properties are significant.
Having said that, I'd agree until the problem is identified correctly, coolant would be a waste.
 

I didn’t say it was significantly better, I said it was better. People have indicated coolant will cool better than plan water, it will not.

Coolant provides a lot of benefits, but more efficient cooling (at least in the short term) is not one of them. If your vehicle is overheating when full of water, adding coolant will not help. Flushing the system may help, but just adding coolant will not.

All that said, I always run the recommended coolant type and mix and change at recommended intervals.

Incidentally, I have not been in a vehicle that overheated since I was driving a B-model Mack over the Grapevine back in ‘77...

[Jeffrey346]

I have the Civic 3 door as well [23 years young]. It's been a work in progress [hobby] for me.

I never have to add any fluid to the radiator. 

It could be a head gasket issue. Any white smoke from the exhaust pipe?

[canthai55]

17 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Water pressure is usually higher than oil pressure

Radiator pressure cap - usually 15 pounds

Minimum oil pressure - 25 to 30 pounds even at idle.

[stud858]

If using only  plain water the chance of corrosion is greater.

Adding stop leak may plug the corossipn and adding coolant may stop further corrosion.

And, yes , if it was a new Ferrari you would want to find the leak and fix it . maybe a fluoro die can be added to water to trace fault easier