Is this breaking my contract?

puukao · August 23, 2018

It's fun venting about teaching in Thailand, and I'm not going to start 1000 threads about how great my kids are. They are great.

Anyhow, so we all (I think) give the Labor Department a copy of our schedule with our contract. My schedule has literally been changed over 20 times in the last year, and this last change really got me upset. First I was doing special teaching for kids studying for an important interview, then homeroom duties (I'm not a homeroom teacher) for 20 minutes a day, now a few extra classes.

My current schedule is NOTHING like what we gave the labor department.

Can I simply stick it out for one more month? Oh, maybe...

But I do want to know if they are breaking my contract and if I could leave immediately.

I've told them over 100 times, "if you change my schedule again, I will leave." Yes, I'm the idiot who cried wolf.

Worst case, I need to go next week to let them know i'm leaving in 30-days (give them a written notice)....

anyhow, thoughts:?

Andrew108 · August 23, 2018

Give your notice and then stick it out. You don’t have to do much more than that. Focus on your students and don’t get into any unnecessary arguments with admin.

soleddy · August 23, 2018

Andrew is right, except that some people would advise waiting 'til job season starts IF you need regular income.

I know of people who have left jobs in 24 hours "because Mom is very ill" or some excuse. I am not saying that anyone should do that, but having worked here for 16 years, the employers do have a habit of being SOBs sometimes.

People used to say that there was a black list OR that the police or airport immigration would arrest you if you "broke contract". None of that stuff is true: the police couldn't give a FF, and there is only word of mouth between a few schools (they all hate each other LOL). A friend once looked into this, and it turned out that a civil suit (being sued by a school) would take 2-3 years and big lawyer fees IF anyone could catch you or be bothered.

Of course, you would not be asking for a reference...

puukao · August 23, 2018

appreciate the replies. As I've told my fellow teacher, it's never just ONE thing....it's seeing how other teachers have been treated for years, and after a while it really adds up. I've seen maybe 50 teachers leave in 1.5 years. Almost 100% teacher turnover, and that's pretty crazy. One thing I do is vent on this website, so I don't vent to admin. For the first 6-months, I didn't even know admin. Then I became "important" and we have had about 100 meetings, or more. So, we are "friends" but we don't trust each other. I made it sooo easy for them a few months ago....I said, "no more meetings, leave me alone, don't change this schedule, and I'll help you make money." 5555. Yea, that lasted a few weeks. The problem was they fired so many teachers and didn't hire many back, making more money. 90% of teachers either leave if forced to work a lot, and 99% don't complain. I'm definitely the 1%, since I have the most leverage of any teacher here. If I was simply one of even two farangs, they wouldn't deal with me. But i'm 1 of 1. I told them for five months to replace me, but a few parents tell them to keep me. 555.

a good thai friend of mine got fired last week, all because he asked about some government test. he has been here 10 years. probably not that one thing, but it was brutal to watch.

and some teachers at 10,000 a month.......can you imagine???

upu2 · August 23, 2018

Do the re-schedules still fit in with your general responsibilities or have they more way beyond them? I don't teach so I am not probably in a good position to comment but in my work you can as long as it falls within the general responsibilities of you contract be asked to do just about anything.

Why don't you sit down with the head of the Admin section who I assume these changes are coming from and try and work something out with them? Sure you can quit but then you will go through the process of getting another job and if in general you like your current organization I would say try to come to an agreement with them

greenchair · August 23, 2018

Just start turning up late.

Smell a bit.

Don't wash your hair for a month (if you have any ).

Don't brush your teeth.

Stop the nicy nicy teaching stuff.

Don't speak in the class, just give them worksheets.

They will kindly replace you with severance pay if you leave quietly.

kuhske · August 23, 2018

I hope my experience at a recent private university helps. It forces contracts on all new lecturers so the institution has documentation that those humans are actually hired on its organization. Every department undergoes annual quality check from the Ministry of Education, and only those that pass the "quality" assurance are allowed on the approved list of institutions where students with government loans are allowed to attend. Each of us, you included, earn quality point(s) for the quality assurance, of which a certain amount is required by the MOE for approval for students on government loans to attend. (A contract is "proof" to the MOE authorities that such humans with particular credentials and research publications exist for the purpose of obtaining the QA points).

But the HR administrator assures me and my colleagues that we can put in a 30-day notice if we wish to resign. The contract doesn't technically forces us to fulfill its length of tenure.

Andrew108 · August 23, 2018

Can you rewrite that? Doesn’t seem to make sense, but may contain some interesting information.

Rhys · August 23, 2018

5 hours ago, greenchair said:

Just start turning up late.

Smell a bit.

Don't wash your hair for a month (if you have any ).

Don't brush your teeth.

Stop the nicy nicy teaching stuff.

Don't speak in the class, just give them worksheets.

They will kindly replace you with severance pay if you leave quietly.

NgAHH IT IS AN EGO THANG WITH SOME OF THE ADMINISTRATORS... THEY WILL KEEP YOU TO SPITE YOU.

The More likely situation that would raise eyebrows are the parents' opinions...

Cheers Leave already..

alien365 · August 23, 2018

If they treat everyone with such disdain, why have you stayed for so long? If they are firing good staff then it's only a matter of time til you're next, even if you feel you're indispensable.

puukao · August 24, 2018

I asked them many times to replace me, and I've given my notice before. they were going to give me a contract that ended at the end of the term, but they have never done that. so I need to give a 30-day notice again next week, and leave when the term is over. we have orally agreed on that. yes, i'm 100% sure they keep me around in spite of me, and it is a big process getting rid of the work permit, go to immigration, then border run. if that process was easier (border was closer), then i'm sure I would have done that a few months ago.

i'm the only teacher that can show up at 8:30, every other teacher must be here at 7:15. i'm also paid twice as much as most teachers, and 3x as much as some teachers. it's not a money thing or time thing with me, it's the principle of being constantly told one thing and then, after teachers quit, they are not replaced but work spread out to current teachers. of course, this makes the environment toxic, as everyone is upset and everyone ends up leaving. five teachers are currently talking about leaving. this weighs on you ...

I admit, I should have left six months ago, but, when it comes to the kids, I really am the best English they may have ever had.....of course they are not very old. 5555. but they are very happy and their English is getting better (no, they don't have the UK accent: see previous post).

falangjim · August 24, 2018

You don't sound like you're qualified to work in a decent school. I am judging you based on how your school is treating you.

Sure. Leave. What is out there better for you?

Andrew108 · August 24, 2018

3 hours ago, puukao said:

I asked them many times to replace me, and I've given my notice before. they were going to give me a contract that ended at the end of the term, but they have never done that. so I need to give a 30-day notice again next week, and leave when the term is over. we have orally agreed on that. yes, i'm 100% sure they keep me around in spite of me, and it is a big process getting rid of the work permit, go to immigration, then border run. if that process was easier (border was closer), then i'm sure I would have done that a few months ago.

i'm the only teacher that can show up at 8:30, every other teacher must be here at 7:15. i'm also paid twice as much as most teachers, and 3x as much as some teachers. it's not a money thing or time thing with me, it's the principle of being constantly told one thing and then, after teachers quit, they are not replaced but work spread out to current teachers. of course, this makes the environment toxic, as everyone is upset and everyone ends up leaving. five teachers are currently talking about leaving. this weighs on you ...

I admit, I should have left six months ago, but, when it comes to the kids, I really am the best English they may have ever had.....of course they are not very old. 5555. but they are very happy and their English is getting better (no, they don't have the UK accent: see previous post).

The life lesson you need to learn is to not be so conditioned by the circumstances you find yourself in.

Honestly, I think you might be suffering from some kind of culture shock. Just get on with your work and look for a supportive group of friends you can discuss these things with. This forum isn’t a decent substitute.

dinsdale · August 25, 2018

Thai teaching contract: We can break it but you can't.?

WonnabeBiker · August 26, 2018

On 8/24/2018 at 9:18 PM, Happy enough said:

On 8/25/2018 at 9:07 AM, dinsdale said:

Thai teaching contract: We can break it but you can't.?

I can corroborate that. My contract had a mutual clause regarding notice period. But then, the director was obsessed with costs and NES were soon replaced with a teenage backpacker who wasn't a single day at university (but got a WP all right). And later, Cameroonians.

To save $$$, I got terminated with a Thai letter (my contract was in English, too) and they succeeded. Probationary period was a distant past. And real cause would mean, it's okay. But I swear, I never even

i. learned what they terminated me for or

ii. got paid within months for the full months I had worked there. (Finally, they made me come, sign a book and get a check before it became stale).

WonnabeBiker · August 26, 2018

OP, want to be right or rich? The holidays are coming. Why not hanging in there until they are over and you have the October salary in hand?

Historically, following the holidays, there will be many schools in need of teachers...

We are all expendable, easily replaced. The cleaners get more respect (how about cleaning mops now and then)...

WonnabeBiker · August 26, 2018

On 8/24/2018 at 8:43 AM, puukao said:

I asked them many times to replace me, and I've given my notice before. they were going to give me a contract that ended at the end of the term, but they have never done that. so I need to give a 30-day notice again next week, and leave when the term is over. we have orally agreed on that. yes, i'm 100% sure they keep me around in spite of me, and it is a big process getting rid of the work permit, go to immigration, then border run. if that process was easier (border was closer), then i'm sure I would have done that a few months ago.

i'm the only teacher that can show up at 8:30, every other teacher must be here at 7:15. i'm also paid twice as much as most teachers, and 3x as much as some teachers. it's not a money thing or time thing with me, it's the principle of being constantly told one thing and then, after teachers quit, they are not replaced but work spread out to current teachers. of course, this makes the environment toxic, as everyone is upset and everyone ends up leaving. five teachers are currently talking about leaving. this weighs on you ...

I admit, I should have left six months ago, but, when it comes to the kids, I really am the best English they may have ever had.....of course they are not very old. 5555. but they are very happy and their English is getting better (no, they don't have the UK accent: see previous post).

Returning = canceling your WP is a piece of cake. You could also send it back by EMS letter... Your VISA extension will end and it would be good if you actually could land a new job before all this. Ideally, your new school would have the paperwork ready for a B-VISA when you will have to leave the country anyway...

"100% turnover" in what, 18 months speaks for itself.

...

There is the chance that your next place might be even worse. How do you like your town?

anon789561 · August 26, 2018

45 minutes ago, WonnabeBiker said:

I can corroborate that. My contract had a mutual clause regarding notice period. But then, the director was obsessed with costs and NES were soon replaced with a teenage backpacker who wasn't a single day at university (but got a WP all right). And later, Cameroonians.

To save $$$, I got terminated with a Thai letter (my contract was in English, too) and they succeeded. Probationary period was a distant past. And real cause would mean, it's okay. But I swear, I never even

i. learned what they terminated me for or

ii. got paid within months for the full months I had worked there. (Finally, they made me come, sign a book and get a check before it became stale).

if you're gonna quote me then all good but please provide where you quoted from

WonnabeBiker · August 26, 2018

13 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

if you're gonna quote me then all good but please provide where you quoted from

I'm sorry, have had technical issues. It wasn't intentionally.

puukao · August 26, 2018

1 hour ago, WonnabeBiker said:

Returning = canceling your WP is a piece of cake. You could also send it back by EMS letter... Your VISA extension will end and it would be good if you actually could land a new job before all this. Ideally, your new school would have the paperwork ready for a B-VISA when you will have to leave the country anyway...

"100% turnover" in what, 18 months speaks for itself.

...

There is the chance that your next place might be even worse. How do you like your town?

I agree with some of the other posters. This isn't the best environment for me, of course. They gave me more money, said an "easier" schedule, blah, blah....well, i got the money.

my town is nothing special; if traffic is bad it's a few hours from BKK (it's either east or west (not north or south) i'll leave you guessing. lol)

so i talked to my school about them telling the labor department about me leaving and they said not to worry.....as if they will not tell them immediately. why? i'm not sure, but i have two guesses. One I won't share, but the other is to see if they can replace me by November. if not, they might really try to get me to come back and it would be seamless since nobody said anything. of course i don't trust anyone, and this will be for another conversation and maybe something in writing. i do plan on leaving the city, and that will likely be in october. i'll turn in my WP during that transition.

i'm leaning towards not teaching again, except perhaps university. i can afford to take at least a year off and do whatever, but i would like to have a little responsibility.

thequietman · August 26, 2018

19 minutes ago, puukao said:

I agree with some of the other posters. This isn't the best environment for me, of course. They gave me more money, said an "easier" schedule, blah, blah....well, i got the money.

my town is nothing special; if traffic is bad it's a few hours from BKK (it's either east or west (not north or south) i'll leave you guessing. lol)

so i talked to my school about them telling the labor department about me leaving and they said not to worry.....as if they will not tell them immediately. why? i'm not sure, but i have two guesses. One I won't share, but the other is to see if they can replace me by November. if not, they might really try to get me to come back and it would be seamless since nobody said anything. of course i don't trust anyone, and this will be for another conversation and maybe something in writing. i do plan on leaving the city, and that will likely be in october. i'll turn in my WP during that transition.

i'm leaning towards not teaching again, except perhaps university. i can afford to take at least a year off and do whatever, but i would like to have a little responsibility.

You are not going to find the answers in a Uni either. Same crapola, just bigger in size. They tell you anything to get you to sign and then its all change after that. If you know how to work the system after that, then great. If not, it will drive you mad if you let it.

Personally, I just laugh at them and tell them what they want to hear and then do what suits me. They are mad at you today and then next week all is forgotten if you do something good. Attention spans of goldfish, all of them.

Just play the game, don't take it serious at all and you will do OK. Good luck.

puukao · August 27, 2018

I agree, I need to laugh it off and 99% of the time I do what I want. I could do that the first 7 months, no problem. Then, after a few months, I was fine for another few months. Then I became the teacher where the admin must record, sell, talk with, and bother almost every day.....I went from zero assistants to two, sometimes three. The only good thing was we had to figure out who had more leverage, and a few months ago we decided it was me. So they would ask me to do stuff, and I would sometimes say, "no." they would then ask, "can you......and if not, it's ok". I just want to left alone, like before. they want me to stay for five years....555.

if I didn't make this clear, this is 90% my problem. my issues. my problem. but we have now had about 200 meetings this term, and I am not good at taking orders. lol.

20 more days of teaching. 70% I can do this. 20 months done, one more to go.

there were some foreigners I could talk to, but their problems were crazy. that didn't help me. but it was fun listening to how bad things were, made me feel better. 555. it really comes down to money; you should always have 300-500,000 cash for peace of mind. hopefully, many times that. of course. just my thoughts. if I was worried over money, I would go back to London.

Rhys · August 27, 2018

8 hours ago, puukao said:

I agree, I need to laugh it off and 99% of the time I do what I want. I could do that the first 7 months, no problem. Then, after a few months, I was fine for another few months. Then I became the teacher where the admin must record, sell, talk with, and bother almost every day.....I went from zero assistants to two, sometimes three. The only good thing was we had to figure out who had more leverage, and a few months ago we decided it was me. So they would ask me to do stuff, and I would sometimes say, "no." they would then ask, "can you......and if not, it's ok". I just want to left alone, like before. they want me to stay for five years....555.

if I didn't make this clear, this is 90% my problem. my issues. my problem. but we have now had about 200 meetings this term, and I am not good at taking orders. lol.

20 more days of teaching. 70% I can do this. 20 months done, one more to go.

there were some foreigners I could talk to, but their problems were crazy. that didn't help me. but it was fun listening to how bad things were, made me feel better. 555. it really comes down to money; you should always have 300-500,000 cash for peace of mind. hopefully, many times that. of course. just my thoughts. if I was worried over money, I would go back to London.

...make sure to enjoy the night trade winds before leaving...

thequietman · August 27, 2018

8 hours ago, puukao said:

So they would ask me to do stuff, and I would sometimes say, "no." they would then ask, "can you......and if not, it's ok". I just want to left alone, like before. they want me to stay for five years....555.

U see, there's your problem!

Say 'yes' even when U mean 'No." They don't like the word No and it gets their back up. Yes can mean the yes that we know but also 'I understand' but with no agreement.

Don't do whatever it is and then when they ask, say that you have been so busy doing blah blah blah and it's OK. Agree to come in after school hours and on weekends and then just don't turn up citing that you forgot about it or say 'Oh! was it this weekend, I thought it was (put what U want her) ...... and so on.

YES to everything and do Nothing and you will get along fine. Good luck.

Andrew108 · August 27, 2018

Puukao, is your school in Loei? Weren't you doing some recruiting for them this year?

puukao · August 28, 2018

Yes, one day I want to tell them everything and do nothing. but I haven't tried that yet.

i'm not in Loei, never been. I have tried to help many friends in the last few years on craigslist and some other sites for jobs where there are/were. mostly BKK, but maybe I helped them with an ad for that place. They are Filipinos and I needed to write the ad for them. anything possible in the last few years.

Andrew108 · August 28, 2018

1 hour ago, puukao said:

Yes, one day I want to tell them everything and do nothing. but I haven't tried that yet.

i'm not in Loei, never been. I have tried to help many friends in the last few years on craigslist and some other sites for jobs where there are/were. mostly BKK, but maybe I helped them with an ad for that place. They are Filipinos and I needed to write the ad for them. anything possible in the last few years.

Didn’t you post a job ad for Loei on this website?

puukao · August 28, 2018

44 minutes ago, Andrew108 said:

Didn’t you post a job ad for Loei on this website?

i'm guessing you saw the ad, so i'm sure the answer is yes. not my school.

but i'm sure my school is hiring for November, and if interested just send me a PM and I'll send you all the information. and I have many agent friends, so I hope it's OK if I send off your resume to others. I can even talk on the phone, i'm not working until next Wednesday.

Andrew108 · August 28, 2018

I’m not in Thailand at the moment. I had 5 years of teaching there and I’ll be returning next April. I’m getting a CELTA before I start teaching again and I can’t see myself teaching for less than 45K a month. So I don’t know.... perhaps I’ll head straight for China.

I don’t think it would be worth teaching for anything less than 45K and most agents are advertising positions in the 35K range.

I’ve just hit my big 50 and I’ve heard there might be some age descrimimation. We’ll see - but right now I’m not applying for any positions.

soleddy · August 30, 2018

After 16 yrs here (with CELTA. MBA, MA, BSc. IELTS examiner 2 years and 7 years at top Uni+ 5 years revising crap exams for gvment here) I am now over 60 and ageism does happen! Most certainly. If you were in the Uni before 60 and you are good, they keep you. I quit at 55 to enter gvment).

You are correct about 35,000. I was paid 35,000 15 years ago. Public schools rarely pay more (+only 15,000 to Flips if they can wing it). 45,000 is possible in some places, but they are choosy or else work you hard. Main problem is still bitchiness and jealousy of natives ++ in-house fighting between Thai factions--plus (as another poster has said) excluding you from year gradings, book choices and changing your classes ++ asking extra "editing" from farangs.

All-in -all too much flak for 35 or 45k, but they have foot-shot themselves because the keen young chalkies with BAs don't come any more. China pays double. Vietnam is disorganised about visas but nicer people and money a bit better. Even Russia wants people. Thailand is spent but it was always dodgy unless you were lucky, cos the kids don't care and want IPhones, and the teachers (once they pass the teacher exams) are useless and lazy (ok 5% are good). ask any kid how and what they did in M1-M6 (either nothing or copy Run Ran Run) if you don't believe me.

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