Buying a gasless MIG welder in Thailand

[mogandave]

The downside to MIG is that you need to make certain you can get consumables for the gun.

[The Deerhunter]

22 hours ago, missoura said:

Currently, I am in stick mode with beads the size of Mount Everest. It's going to take a bit of practice on the MIG.

 

22 hours ago, missoura said:

Currently, I am in stick mode with beads the size of Mount Everest. It's going to take a bit of practice on the MIG.

What was the ticket price on the IWeld 225-IGBT, including cables etc or use as a gasless MIG welder MIG?

[The Deerhunter]

22 hours ago, mogandave said:

The downside to MIG is that you need to make certain you can get consumables for the gun.

Unless I am totally misreading the site, (which, with my level of ignorance on this matter is possible) there is plenty of gasless MIG wire on Lazada

[George Bowman]

3 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

 

What was the ticket price on the IWeld 225-IGBT, including cables etc or use as a gasless MIG welder MIG?

B25,000. I got it just a hair cheaper, but not much.

 

The Welpro's salesman is called Top at 062-928-7825. Very little English.

[The Deerhunter]

Just now, missoura said:

B25,000. I got it just a hair cheaper, but not much.

 

The Welpro's salesman is called Top at 062-928-7825. Very little English.

Ouch.  I didn't want to spend that much as i wont use it very often.   Still a lot dearer than my mate can get me in my (240V 50Hz) home country  They are not heavy so maybe worth a trip next year.  Will think on it.

[mogandave]

Unless I am totally misreading the site, (which, with my level of ignorance on this matter is possible) there is plenty of gasless MIG wire on Lazada

Gun consumables like nozzles, tips, diffusers & liners, not wire.

[mogandave]

Guys that want cheap welders really should consider just getting an ac/dc stick welder. They are cheaper, more robust and more versatile.

It does take a little more practice, but unless you’re welding horizontal inside corners you’ll need practice anyway, and no shortage on free online tutorials.


Spend the money you save on good gloves, a decent helmet and some clamps...

[Litlos]

1 hour ago, The Deerhunter said:

Ouch.  I didn't want to spend that much as i wont use it very often.   Still a lot dearer than my mate can get me in my (240V 50Hz) home country  They are not heavy so maybe worth a trip next year.  Will think on it.

They are here and cheaper if you look around eg:

https://www.lazada.co.th/shop-welding-equipment/jasic/?from=input&q=mig&sort=priceasc

 

Jasic is a reasonable brand available locally. As long as the polarity can be switched for gasless wire should be OK. 

 

Cheers

[Crossy]

10 minutes ago, Litlos said:

As long as the polarity can be switched for gasless wire should be OK. 

Can't you just swap the connections at the machine?

[Litlos]

55 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Can't you just swap the connections at the machine?

That seems to be the more normal means of swapping the polarity, certainly this was how I achieved the swap on my machine.  I have seen changeover switches, but not to common on the lower end machines.

 

Cheers

[mogandave]

Can't you just swap the connections at the machine?

If you have a separate wire feeder or spool-gun yes, but if you have an integrated feeder, it is doable, but not that easy.

Not sure why everyone is hot for gas-less, a little cheaper to start, but you’ll burn through whatever savings you had in a few spools of wire.

Compare the cost of flux-core wire to hard wire.

I made a case for a stick machine, but if I could only have one piece of welding equipment in a home shop, it would be an oxyacetylene/oxy/LP.

Cut, braze, solder, heat, weld most anything (rain or shine) and light the grill...

Easy to learn, attractive welds, light gage, heavy gage, almost nothing that wears out and you need no electricity...

[mogandave]

That seems to be the more normal means of swapping the polarity, certainly this was how I achieved the swap on my machine.  I have seen changeover switches, but not to common on the lower end machines.
 
Cheers

Your unit has a separate power supply and wire-feeder yes?

[Litlos]

15 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Your unit has a separate power supply and wire-feeder yes?
 

 

All in one, the wires are in wire feeder compartment, so no big hassle to switch around.

 

[The Deerhunter]

8 hours ago, mogandave said:

Guys that want cheap welders really should consider just getting an ac/dc stick welder. They are cheaper, more robust and more versatile.

It does take a little more practice, but unless you’re welding horizontal inside corners you’ll need practice anyway, and no shortage on free online tutorials.


Spend the money you save on good gloves, a decent helmet and some clamps...

Of course you are absolutely right.  I was just trying to avoid that.  In my original post i explained that all my friends back home have these and say I should get one.  Well it will be do nothing in the meantime, for a variety of reasons.

[The Deerhunter]

7 hours ago, Litlos said:

They are here and cheaper if you look around eg:

https://www.lazada.co.th/shop-welding-equipment/jasic/?from=input&q=mig&sort=priceasc

 

Jasic is a reasonable brand available locally. As long as the polarity can be switched for gasless wire should be OK. 

 

Cheers

5,500 sounds like me .   I have no idea what other items I should order with it to make it work.  OK GLoves auto visor helmet, a roll of MIG rozin wire.  So far so good.  Does it come with cables for arc welding included?  What Arc rods should I buy?  I have some 2.6 or something here from the last job I had done on the farm.  I have no idea about cables & hand sets I need for MIG function or even how the wire is propelled to the handset.  Hopeless, arn't I?

[mogandave]

Again, anyone with home shop should think about attending the Metalix show at the BITEC in November...

[Litlos]

1 hour ago, The Deerhunter said:

5,500 sounds like me .   I have no idea what other items I should order with it to make it work.  OK GLoves auto visor helmet, a roll of MIG rozin wire.  So far so good.  Does it come with cables for arc welding included?  What Arc rods should I buy?  I have some 2.6 or something here from the last job I had done on the farm.  I have no idea about cables & hand sets I need for MIG function or even how the wire is propelled to the handset.  Hopeless, arn't I?

I just finished work and had a second look at the 5500 Baht unit.  It says MIG, but is not, it is MMA AKA stick.  So here are a couple of others that are actual MIG:

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/HITBOX-Mig-Welder-220V-MIG120A-Flux-Cored-Wire-Iron-Welding-Machine-Portable-Size-DC-Mig-Welding/3252022_32841478610.html?spm=2114.12010612/itm2home-1.8148356.1.26a56a5cfpC5a7

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/polo-p191-mig200-combopro1-11-mig-co2-er705-6-5-15-jasic-1-i233558835-s358224113.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.73.1f74240dC43ybj&search=1

 

The POLO is shown as using gas, but to change over is only switching the wires at the electrode and earth connection.  The Hitbox from China is shown as gasless only, hence why it is cheaper.  Both are showing the accessories needed to get started.  I got hit for 7% import duty by the post office for importing the one I got from China, so would expect that to be similar.  I bought a couple of extra spool of MIG gasless wire when I bought the unit and that worked out cheaper than doing a separate purchase.

There are heaps of videos on Youtube, which is what I did to understand what I needed.

 

Cheers

 

 

[jmd8800]

Here is a little background on FCAW (flux core arc welding):  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux-cored_arc_welding

 

One of the better aspects of FCAW welding compared to stick welding (SMAW - shielded metal arc welding) is that the welder does not have to compensate for the decreasing length of the welding rod while welding. In FCAW you maintain the distance between the contact tip (tubular electrode on the Wiki page) and base metal. What takes practice for any welder is to maintain correct drag angle, travel speed, welding pattern and arc length. With FCAW constant voltage setting the arc length will remain constant if the distance between the contact tip and base metal is constant.

 

Typically SMAW and FCAW are similar in windy and breezy conditions and GMAW (gas metal are welding or MIG) is more confined to shop / indoor work.

 

Also remember that if you use one of these small machines on household currents make sure your outlet is rated high enough to handle the amperage drawn by the welder. Long distances away from the outlet and small gauge extension chords can be a problem.

 

 

[The Deerhunter]

13 hours ago, jmd8800 said:

Here is a little background on FCAW (flux core arc welding):  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux-cored_arc_welding

 

One of the better aspects of FCAW welding compared to stick welding (SMAW - shielded metal arc welding) is that the welder does not have to compensate for the decreasing length of the welding rod while welding. In FCAW you maintain the distance between the contact tip (tubular electrode on the Wiki page) and base metal. What takes practice for any welder is to maintain correct drag angle, travel speed, welding pattern and arc length. With FCAW constant voltage setting the arc length will remain constant if the distance between the contact tip and base metal is constant.

 

Typically SMAW and FCAW are similar in windy and breezy conditions and GMAW (gas metal are welding or MIG) is more confined to shop / indoor work.

 

Also remember that if you use one of these small machines on household currents make sure your outlet is rated high enough to handle the amperage drawn by the welder. Long distances away from the outlet and small gauge extension chords can be a problem.

 

 

Thanks for the comments about caution re power supply.  I just built myself a 12m extension cord out of 2.5mm  two core wire, a heavy duty male plug and a heavy rubber two outlet terminal box so I hope that will work.  I was planning to work from one  part of the property where two different outlets are available.  I can ask my electrician for advice of the delivery  load available from these outlets as we are in a rural area and current may be variable. I may be better off working from an outlet in the garage which is close to where the power enters the house.  Any further advice?  Thanks for your comments.  It seems from what you wrote that flux core is ok re welding outside which seems reasonable as the flux is right in the core at point of arc, whereas with flowing CO2 or Argon gas they are delivered close to the arc.  Your comments are mostly the same as my friends back home (in a 240V zone) where everyone I know who welds uses machines that can use both standard arc and Flux core MIG.  Several told me NOT to buy anything else or I would regret it and they are experienced home and semi-commercial welder.  Whereas here, there seems to be a definite shortage of people with any local experience with many people flat out telling me such things don't exist at all, or are no good.   Litlos has pointed me to an Aliexpress product, (Hitbox MIG120A) a couple of posts above, that I am likely to proceed on.

[The Deerhunter]

15 hours ago, Litlos said:

I just finished work and had a second look at the 5500 Baht unit.  It says MIG, but is not, it is MMA AKA stick.  So here are a couple of others that are actual MIG:

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/HITBOX-Mig-Welder-220V-MIG120A-Flux-Cored-Wire-Iron-Welding-Machine-Portable-Size-DC-Mig-Welding/3252022_32841478610.html?spm=2114.12010612/itm2home-1.8148356.1.26a56a5cfpC5a7

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/polo-p191-mig200-combopro1-11-mig-co2-er705-6-5-15-jasic-1-i233558835-s358224113.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.73.1f74240dC43ybj&search=1

 

The POLO is shown as using gas, but to change over is only switching the wires at the electrode and earth connection.  The Hitbox from China is shown as gasless only, hence why it is cheaper.  Both are showing the accessories needed to get started.  I got hit for 7% import duty by the post office for importing the one I got from China, so would expect that to be similar.  I bought a couple of extra spool of MIG gasless wire when I bought the unit and that worked out cheaper than doing a separate purchase.

There are heaps of videos on Youtube, which is what I did to understand what I needed.

 

Cheers

 

 

Thanks for that.  So much for all the people who say such things don't exist, like all the shops in any town near here.   

Gee, 6,000 baht or 12,000 baht.  Let me think on that.!!!!!!!!!   (Decision!! Aliexpress Hitbox wins)  Plus freight and 7%VAT I guess.  What is the freight likely to be?  Are the cables packaged with The Hit Box suitable for both type or do I need separate cables for the ARC welding?  Re Arc welds:  I have a pack or two of KOBE 30, 2.6 x 350mm rods left over from builders welding up roof frames for farm buildings  With light galvanised box section framing and repairing wheelbarrows,  they always seemed to blow holes in everything and everywhere they welded.  For such material should I get some lighter rods and dial down the amperage on the welder?   I will need gloves and an auto visor helmet.  I will probably buy that stuff from Lazada and get rods & more wire there.  I also will but a cheap drop saw steel cutter.  I already have 2 angle grinders & lots of disks.   Thanks again for your valuable advice.

[jmd8800]

4 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Thanks for the comments about caution re power supply.  I just built myself a 12m extension cord out of 2.5mm  two core wire, a heavy duty male plug and a heavy rubber two outlet terminal box so I hope that will work.  I was planning to work from one  part of the property where two different outlets are available.  I can ask my electrician for advice of the delivery  load available from these outlets as we are in a rural area and current may be variable. I may be better off working from an outlet in the garage which is close to where the power enters the house.  Any further advice?  Thanks for your comments.  It seems from what you wrote that flux core is ok re welding outside which seems reasonable as the flux is right in the core at point of arc, whereas with flowing CO2 or Argon gas they are delivered close to the arc.  Your comments are mostly the same as my friends back home (in a 240V zone) where everyone I know who welds uses machines that can use both standard arc and Flux core MIG.  Several told me NOT to buy anything else or I would regret it and they are experienced home and semi-commercial welder.  Whereas here, there seems to be a definite shortage of people with any local experience with many people flat out telling me such things don't exist at all, or are no good.   Litlos has pointed me to an Aliexpress product, (Hitbox MIG120A) a couple of posts above, that I am likely to proceed on.

Yes flux core and shielded metal arc are the way to go outdoors. The Hitbox looks ok for welding up to about 1/8".  It doesn't say what kind of wire is included but one ad is for E71-T GS wire which is a good all position wire. I always used Lincoln NR-211 wire which is very similar. You probably don't have a choice with your order. You will have to insert the wire into the 'feeder' so be sure when you 'unwrap' the spool that you have a hold of the end of the wire as it will likely unroll all over the place. A roll of wire is very expensive. I'd also order 5-10 extra contact tips. Since you are learning you'll go through a few of them. Many can be repaired so don't just toss them.

 

I am not an electrician so I cannot comment on what works or not but it sounds like the 12mm cord is ok.

 

As to your post about the Kobe welding rods. They are 6013 welding rods which is an all purpose, all position rod that can be used with AC or DC current. You cannot use these with the HitBox because the Hitbox is wire feed only. The holes being blown were likely a result of try to weld two pieces before removing the galvanizing with a grinder or torch. The galvanizing should be removed before welding to control the weld and galvanizing is rich with zinc which can cause health problems in large doses. The other possibility of blowing holes comes from high a current and poor fit up.

 

All if this stuff is available somewhere in Thailand. As I go by different construction site I see welders using all kinds of different setups. As someone else pointed out the oil and gas industry has good welders so they must also have good equipment (though that equipment is industrial and not home use so it is expensive.)

 

do a search on youtube for FCAW, lincoln nr 211, loading wire into a lincoln etc. Or Here is a good place to start:

 

 

 

[jmd8800]

4 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Thanks for the comments about caution re power supply.  I just built myself a 12m extension cord out of 2.5mm  two core wire, a heavy duty male plug and a heavy rubber two outlet terminal box so I hope that will work.  I was planning to work from one  part of the property where two different outlets are available.  I can ask my electrician for advice of the delivery  load available from these outlets as we are in a rural area and current may be variable. I may be better off working from an outlet in the garage which is close to where the power enters the house.  Any further advice?  Thanks for your comments.  It seems from what you wrote that flux core is ok re welding outside which seems reasonable as the flux is right in the core at point of arc, whereas with flowing CO2 or Argon gas they are delivered close to the arc.  Your comments are mostly the same as my friends back home (in a 240V zone) where everyone I know who welds uses machines that can use both standard arc and Flux core MIG.  Several told me NOT to buy anything else or I would regret it and they are experienced home and semi-commercial welder.  Whereas here, there seems to be a definite shortage of people with any local experience with many people flat out telling me such things don't exist at all, or are no good.   Litlos has pointed me to an Aliexpress product, (Hitbox MIG120A) a couple of posts above, that I am likely to proceed on.

Yes flux core and shielded metal arc are the way to go outdoors. The Hitbox looks ok for welding up to about 1/8".  It doesn't say what kind of wire is included but one ad is for E71-T GS wire which is a good all position wire. I always used Lincoln NR-211 wire which is very similar. You probably don't have a choice with your order. You will have to insert the wire into the 'feeder' so be sure when you 'unwrap' the spool that you have a hold of the end of the wire as it will likely unroll all over the place. A roll of wire is very expensive. I'd also order 5-10 extra contact tips. Since you are learning you'll go through a few of them. Many can be repaired so don't just toss them.

 

I am not an electrician so I cannot comment on what works or not but it sounds like the 12mm cord is ok.

 

As to your post about the Kobe welding rods. They are 6013 welding rods which is an all purpose, all position rod that can be used with AC or DC current. You cannot use these with the HitBox because the Hitbox is wire feed only. The holes being blown were likely a result of try to weld two pieces before removing the galvanizing with a grinder or torch. The galvanizing should be removed before welding to control the weld and galvanizing is rich with zinc which can cause health problems in large doses. The other possibility of blowing holes comes from high a current and poor fit up.

 

All if this stuff is available somewhere in Thailand. As I go by different construction site I see welders using all kinds of different setups. As someone else pointed out the oil and gas industry has good welders so they must also have good equipment (though that equipment is industrial and not home use so it is expensive.)

 

do a search on youtube for FCAW, lincoln nr 211, loading wire into a lincoln etc. Or Here is a good place to start:

 

 

 

[mogandave]

Using CO2 for MIG is great for burning off galvanizing.

[sometimewoodworker]

16 hours ago, mogandave said:

Using CO2 for MIG is great for burning off galvanizing.

Just make sure you don't breath any of the smoke and as a precaution drink milk before and after welding

 

Quote

Galvanize Poisoning

Symptoms of galvanize poisoning can be similar to flu symptoms.  The onset of symptoms typically begin shortly after exposure to zinc oxide and may include a mild headache and nausea.  If you have a more severe case of exposure, your symptoms will be consistent to those you experience when you have the flu.  A moderate case of exposure will result in symptoms including chills, shaking, a slight fever, vomiting and cold sweats.  If you begin to experience any of these symptoms you should immediately stop working and get some fresh air.  In severe cases the symptoms may be so bad that you will have to go home until they subside.  The most severe cases of galvanize poisoning can result in death. If you feel that your symptoms are worse than ever before, you should seek medical attention at once.

 

[The Deerhunter]

16 hours ago, jmd8800 said:

Yes flux core and shielded metal arc are the way to go outdoors. The Hitbox looks ok for welding up to about 1/8".  It doesn't say what kind of wire is included but one ad is for E71-T GS wire which is a good all position wire. I always used Lincoln NR-211 wire which is very similar. You probably don't have a choice with your order. You will have to insert the wire into the 'feeder' so be sure when you 'unwrap' the spool that you have a hold of the end of the wire as it will likely unroll all over the place. A roll of wire is very expensive. I'd also order 5-10 extra contact tips. Since you are learning you'll go through a few of them. Many can be repaired so don't just toss them.

 

I am not an electrician so I cannot comment on what works or not but it sounds like the 12mm cord is ok.

 

As to your post about the Kobe welding rods. They are 6013 welding rods which is an all purpose, all position rod that can be used with AC or DC current. You cannot use these with the HitBox because the Hitbox is wire feed only. The holes being blown were likely a result of try to weld two pieces before removing the galvanizing with a grinder or torch. The galvanizing should be removed before welding to control the weld and galvanizing is rich with zinc which can cause health problems in large doses. The other possibility of blowing holes comes from high a current and poor fit up.

 

All if this stuff is available somewhere in Thailand. As I go by different construction site I see welders using all kinds of different setups. As someone else pointed out the oil and gas industry has good welders so they must also have good equipment (though that equipment is industrial and not home use so it is expensive.)

 

do a search on youtube for FCAW, lincoln nr 211, loading wire into a lincoln etc. Or Here is a good place to start:

 

 

 

Damn.  I didn't realise until your last reply that this model won't do Arc as well.  Drat.  I wanted standard arc and gasless MIG in the same machine.  I guess I could also buy a cheap arc only machine too but I would much prefer both in one.

[sometimewoodworker]

21 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Damn.  I didn't realise until your last reply that this model won't do Arc as well.  Drat.  I wanted standard arc and gasless MIG in the same machine.  I guess I could also buy a cheap arc only machine too but I would much prefer both in one.

The JASIC version linked above does exactly that as does this one MIG / MMA

[mogandave]

[quote post="13382961" timestamp="1537420303" name="sometimewoodworker" i
I been working is sheet metal fabricating for 25 years, and have participated in a number of environmental studies conducted by the State of California regarding the hazards of welding galvanized,

[mogandave]

...the last one in which they had 20 welders in air-line respirators and 21 sensors between the tables, and as much as the wanted to compel us to install an extraction hood, fine us and or shut us down they found nothing hazardous.

[sometimewoodworker]

Just a FWIW in TW in Udon on Wednesday

 

[shaemus]

On 9/1/2018 at 3:11 PM, Crossy said:

I'll move this to DIY.

 

I've not seen gasless MIG here, regular MIG has only recently started appearing in the big-box DIY places. Consumables are always going to be an issue if you have a less-common technology.

 

TIG is very popular with the stainless fabricators, could be the way to go.

 

 

 

I have a gassless mig machine, i brought it over from Aus.

 

It takes 5 kg spools. the flux core wire in 5kg spools was impossible for me to find here (E71T). 5kg spools of E70s are much easier to find

 

you can buy a 5kg machine from Jasic here in thailand, https://www.lazada.co.th/jasic/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0u3WzP7h3QIV2I6PCh0qbAqPEAMYASAAEgJxtfD_BwE&s_kwcid=AL!3152!3!291578266725!b!!g!!&utm_source=google&utm_medium=sem_non_brand&utm_content=aud-271497139185:dsa-428749876531&utm_campaign=[SDS-000000000000-00000-00000-0]: Brands&utm_term=[SDS-000000000000-00000-00000-0]: Home_xxto0000000at0000_c_aud-271497139185:dsa-428749876531&adjust_tracker=t2v78t_5n20iw&adjust_campaign=612393026&adjust_adgroup=58050301629&adjust_creative=aud-271497139185:dsa-428749876531&tracker_limit=1000000&ef_id=W2BpRAAAAMqnSQu9:20180930052525:s

 

you should workout if you require a portable machine (5kg spool) or a larger machine. 20kg Spool

 

you can buy 20 kgspools of gassless wire at most of the big DIY places and its very easy to buy online.

 

You dont need to worry about the wind with gassless wire, as the flux (oxygen shield) is in the wire, you dont even need the shroud on your mig gun.

 

Ascertain what size metal you will want to weld and buy a machine that  will suit your needs. If you are planning on doing less that 10mm then a 170A machine will suffice.

 

There is allot of mig accessories available online, especially on lazada and Alidirect. Buy your self a decent helmet (auto darkening) and some decent kevlar stiched leather gloves, 

 

have a look at this youtube station for good tips https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqq70AnPkj4-UApS_m_6mPw