Windows Vista

[Florin]

I think I read that you can only really physically buy the 32 bit version, whereas MS can be contacted in order to exchange it for the 64 bit one. The licence change doesn't cost anything (shipping & handling if they need to send you a DVD, nothing if you can get it directly)

[wpcoe]

I think I read that you can only really physically buy the 32 bit version, whereas MS can be contacted in order to exchange it for the 64 bit one. The licence change doesn't cost anything (shipping & handling if they need to send you a DVD, nothing if you can get it directly)

I guess I'll need to allocate some time to exploring the MS website.

I don't think they'd need to send a new DVD, as I understand that the DVD contains all the feature sets of all the versions, and it's simply the licensing key that unlocks the features appropriate to what you paid for, i.e. a new license key would be all that's required to install a different version.

If that IS the case, I can see where it might be possible to install the 32-bit version, then get a new key for 64-bit, and if it didn't work out, then go back to the original 32-bit using the original key.

If I find something on the MS site, I'll post here. Any other thoughts out there?

[cdnvic]

Actually, the 64bit version isn't on the 32bit DVD, you have to order it specificly.

[silvero]

From Paul Thurrott's site:

Windows Vista Ultimate comes with both 32-bit (x86) and 64-bit (x64) versions in the box, on separate DVDs; purhcasers of other retail 32-bit Vista versions can order the 64-bit version from Microsoft for a nominal fee.

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_ff_x64.asp

Note this only applies to retail versions, OEM versions are 32 or 64 bit only.

[A_Traveller]

Note 1. 2bob's original response was incorrect. Asking about sub-sets of the video stream is not relevant. Pattaya Pete's point was, and is valid.

Note 2. Having been involved with the project now know as Vista in the analogue, may I point individuals to the link below re WinFS which may explain why some of us take the view that Vista is XP+ not what it should have been. However, one must remember that MS is not, and never has been, a technology company, it has always been a marketing operation so when push came to shove the marketers won over the techs.

Regards

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinFS

[wpcoe]

Thanks for the info, cdnvic and silvero. I found that same info doing a Google search of 32-bit and 64-bit upgrade, as well as this article by Paul Thurrott that is dated January 29, 2007:

Users who purchase Upgrade versions of Windows Vista will not be able to perform clean installs of the operating system. Instead, they will need to first install their previous OS and then upgrade in-place to Vista.

"This problem occurs because Windows Vista [setup]does not check upgrade compliance," a support note on Microsoft's Web site reads. "Therefore, you cannot use an upgrade key to perform a clean installation of Windows Vista."

While this is sure to infuriate some users--and certainly, it contradicts information Microsoft provided me with last year--the reality is that upgrade installs of Windows Vista essentially wipe out the OS and perform an install that is very much like a clean install. The real problem here, therefore, will be the length of time it takes to install Vista using the Upgrade media: Though Vista often installs in about 30 minutes, previous versions often take twice as long.

UPDATE: I haven't tested this yet, as I don't have Vista Upgrade media to test, but I'm told that Microsoft's internal documentation does explain how to clean install Vista using an Upgrade version. It appears to be more of a workaround than a true clean install, however. Here's what it says.

1. Boot with the Windows Vista Upgrade DVD.

2. Click "Install Now."

3. Do not enter a Product Key When prompted.

4. When prompted, select the Vista product edition that you do have.

6. Install Vista normally.

7. Once the install is complete, restart the DVD-based Setup from within Windows Vista. Perform an in-place upgrade.

8. Enter your Product Key when prompted.

So, basically:

OEM versions are cheap, and are clean & fast installs, but can only be 32-bit OR 64-bit. No changing.

Upgrade versions are next cheapest, but without the additional dance steps 1-8 listed above, you have to install XP first to do a "clean install" of Vista. One report stated that you also have to have SP2 installed before Vista will "upgrade" on top of it. Apparently the Vista Upgrade version does a "Genuine Advantage" check of the XP version installed so you can't use a B100 WinXP disk from Pantip and upgrade to Vista on top of it. There is also talk (speculation?) that Microsoft is planning to close that loophole of steps 1-8 above.

Retail versions are most expensive but most flexible: clean install as many times as you want, with no underlying XP needed.

Both Upgrade and Retail versions come with 32-bit DVD in the box but if you need CD's or want 64-bit DVD, you order from: Microsoft directly "for a minimal fee, including shipping and handling." I wonder how much it costs to ship to Thailand? <shrug> The same product key is used for 32-bit and 64-bit and you can revert to 32-bit without paying anything more, but you must totally re-install from scratch (first re-installing WinXP if you have the Vista Upgrade version).

[aznyron]

I downloaded the Windows Vista advisor and there are loads of things I have to upgrade or remove before I can proceed!! What is so frustrating is that it does look good! Whats your experience?

I have not downloaded vista yet but I did some reading it is recomended you have a min. of 512 ram and a decent video card 128 mb minium also 40 gig free space on your hard drive now the important thing is getting a legal copy of win vista oh also you need dvd player because the new vista will not download on the old cd rom because it dvd not cd let me ask a question were can I buy legal copy of the vista upgrade premium since my computer meets and exceeds win/vista requirements I am running a legal copy of win/xp the upgrade cost 150.00 USD in the USA I am in udon Thani will be visiting Jomtien beach (pattaya) in March Ronnie

[sjaak327]

Actually, the 64bit version isn't on the 32bit DVD, you have to order it specificly.

Maybe Microsoft has different policies in different countries, but I can confirm that the Vista DVD I bought in NL has all vista versions in both 32 bit and 64 bit.

Correction, I have purchased Vista Ultimate upgrade, and the box contains one DVD with 32 bit software and one with 64 bit software. All Vista versions are included.

Edited February 12, 2007 by sjaak327

[aznyron]

Actually, the 64bit version isn't on the 32bit DVD, you have to order it specificly.

Maybe Microsoft has different policies in different countries, but I can confirm that the Vista DVD I bought in NL has all vista versions in both 32 bit and 64 bit.

Correction, I have purchased Vista Ultimate upgrade, and the box contains one DVD with 32 bit software and one with 64 bit software. All Vista versions are included.

were did you buy your copy ? I am running asus board 64 bit with 64 bit amd 3000 cpu and I would like to have the option of running 64 bit vista on my pc now I am running win/xp 32 bit and may I ask you what you paid for it thank you Ronnie

[silvero]

Maybe Microsoft has different policies in different countries, but I can confirm that the Vista DVD I bought in NL has all vista versions in both 32 bit and 64 bit.

Correction, I have purchased Vista Ultimate upgrade, and the box contains one DVD with 32 bit software and one with 64 bit software. All Vista versions are included.

Yes Paul Thurrott's article says that Ultimate (retail/upgrade) has both 32 & 64 bit versions in the box but the other versions (Home Premium etc) have only 32-bit.

[wpcoe]

Continuing with my Windows Vista shopping quest, I was in Bangkok for the day, and spent a few hours at Pantip. I started on the second floor asking at five or six of the larger shops working my say up to the top floor to IT City. None of the shops I asked had Vista.

IT City has a nice display stand with a knowledgable (!) staff member to answer questions. The ONLY versions they have are OEM, except for the Full version of Ultimate. They had no Upgrade versions nor any other Full versions. They had OEM Home, Home Premium, Business and Ultimate, but all of them are 32-bit. (I was a little surprised that OEM Ultimate was 32-bit only, but, oh well.)

They have a price chart for versions that they don't have in stock, but that list does NOT include an Upgrade version for Business. They did list an full range of Full packages for all levels, though, including a couple Thai versions.

On my way out of Pantip I stopped at Data IT on the Mezannine floor and was helped by a team of two stumbling sales associates. At first they didn't know what Windows Vista was, then when the light came on they looked through some inventory book: IBM, Acer, and finally Microsoft. :-) "One moment sir" as they left for the back room several times. Finally they said they only had Home Premium, and I said thanks, but I wanted Business. A few more "One moment sir" disappearances and they came back and said OEM 32-bit Business was B4,500 and it was in stock. I was doubtful of the price, but they insisted, so who am I to complain, when everyplace wanted B6,000. They said "follow me" and lead me to a book store on the 3rd floor which has a display window with the "Microsoft Clean Site" display. The lady behind the register raised an eyebrow when she saw me and a long conversation ensued between her and the Data IT sales associate. It was not a "mai mii" conversation, but that's what he turned around and said to me. What I *think* happened was that they phoned her shop and she had quoted a wholesale price to them, thinking they would then add the normal markup to B6000 and sell it to me. I do NOT think she expected them to bring a hopeful farang to her counter to purchase it for B4,500. If I'm wrong on that assumption, and they WERE simply out of stock, I suggest anyone interested in Vista Business stop by her shop. It's near the "up" escalator on the third floor ... if you were getting on that escalator, the shop would be behind you to your left ... it's on the corner.

So, from my initial scans of both Pantip and Tukcom, all I could find were 32-bit OEM versions, with the one exception of the full Ultimate version at IT City.

Has anybody seen the Upgrade version of Vista Business? That's what I'm looking for, so I can order the 64-bit DVD from Microsoft. Either that, or an OEM 64-bit Vista Business version.

[nikster]

Imagine if MS hadn't put the copy protection in and for that reason NO HD content would play on Vista. Boy would people be screaming then.

At least when I use Windows, or any good commercial OS like Mac, the multimedia plays out of the box. You should see the annoyances to get all the right codecs and such installed in a Unix distribution.

Here Steve Gibson throws a bit of common sense into the Vista DRM discussion after looking at both sides of the issue.

http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-077.htm

Interesting link. There are people who doubt Microsoft's argument of "they made us do it" on the grounds that if MS had not gone all the way with this, what would the content industry do? Would they boycott an operating system with 96% market share? Would they sue MS into not playing HD content on Windows? Probably not. After all, XP doesn't go to these lengths - not even close - and plays HD just fine.

An alternative motive would be that MS simply wants to control how digital content is delivered and being in control of a very elaborate DRM scheme would enable just that.

The funniest thing about this whole thing is that hackers found a "processing key" for both HD DVD and Blu-Ray. With this key out in the open, all existing HD DVDs and Blu Ray disks can be copied / ripped into non-DRMed formats.

The DRM that cost so much in software, hardware, and created so much controversy has been compromised already, before there's even much HD content out there.

Even though there are provisions to revoke a key - basically to use a different key for this kind of thing in the future - it's very likely that any new key would be a lot easier to find the second time around.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/13/hackers...-hd-t/#comments

[penguin]

I think l'll give Vista a miss and wait until "Vienna" is released in 2009

[A_Traveller]

Was in Fortune today and Windows Wista {that's what several of the promo girls said} was being displayed in the 'rotunda'.

Pricing was difficult to clarify with faces from 'blank stares R us'. However, FWIW:-

Price OEM

Home basic 3,999 Code SW1-75

Home Premium 4,999 Code SW1-76

Business 5,999 Code SW1-77

Ultimate 10,990 Code SW1-80 {No they didn't have any, order only}

FPR {Full Price Retail?}

Home Premium 7,490

Ultimate 12,580

However, there was a scribbled note which I saw {upside down} stating FPR Vista Ultimate English 19,900.

Regards

/edit added valediction//

Edited February 14, 2007 by A_Traveller

[wpcoe]

Price OEM

Home basic 3,999 Code SW1-75

Home Premium 4,999 Code SW1-76

Business 5,999 Code SW1-77

Ultimate 10,990 Code SW1-80 {No they didn't have any, order only}

FPR {Full Price Retail?}

Home Premium 7,490

Ultimate 12,580

However, there was a scribbled note which I saw {upside down} stating FPR Vista Ultimate English 19,900.

I wish I had written down the prices, but those sound about like the ones I saw at IT City. I do know the OEM Business was B5999. I'm pretty sure their Ultimate Full version was B19,900.

[cdnvic]

I think l'll give Vista a miss and wait until "Vienna" is released in 2009

No doubt people will be screaming that the sky is falling over that one too.

[MarkBKK]

I think l'll give Vista a miss and wait until "Vienna" is released in 2009

No doubt people will be screaming that the sky is falling over that one too.

Vienna? It means nothing to me.

[cdnvic]

Vienna is the codename for Vista's successor.

[penguin]

Vienna? This means nothing to me

good one Mark

[MarkBKK]

Vienna? This means nothing to me

good one Mark

[aznyron]

Vienna? This means nothing to me

good one Mark

I read a lot in here and I want to say CDNVIC knows a lot about computers and when he talks I listern thank you for all the info you post in here keep it up I use it and need it Ronnie

[penguin]

I read a lot in here and I want to say CDNVIC knows a lot about computers and when he talks I listern

agreed, however his knowledge of the new romantics remains unclear.

[MarkBKK]

I read a lot in here and I want to say CDNVIC knows a lot about computers and when he talks I listern

agreed, however his knowledge of the new romantics remains unclear.

In no more than 5,000 words discuss whether Ultravox were either:

1) Capable of becoming a New Romantic band without the addition of Midge Ure (with reference to the departure of John ''Underpants, underpants'' Foxx);

2) Whether they were, in fact, years ahead of their time and the first New Romantic band;

3) Rubbish.

(Option 3 is compulsory for all those in Mr Strange's class.)

Marks will be deducted for any work written in lipstick.

[cdnvic]

I still have the video of "Dancing with tears in my eyes" I recorded off the TV back in the 80s somewhere.