Mental Health/drugs Problem With Thai Wife

[Ted]

Rarely do I read a thread from start to finish Simon (especially when its over 10 pages). I Just wanted to add another 'all the best' comment to this thread and wish you the best in your dificult circumstances.

[sriracha john]

Timing is everything and now it would certainly seem like you have a truly viable option available to you, Simon.

This is brand new and the first of its kind in Thailand:

Dr Chantima Ongkosit Krairiksh, right, and Dr Kraisit Narukhat-phicha, left, joined about 80 Thai psychiatrists to found Manarom Hospital, Thailand’s first private psychiatric hospital.

The Nation, Photos in the News, 22 March, 2007

From their website:

"Our trained and highly qualified multidisciplinary staff strives to provide the highest level of psychiatric care possible for every client through a continuum of therapy that includes diagnostic evaluations, treatments, relapse preventions and aftercare. We aim to provide services covering holistic aspects of mental health and psychiatry."

"Manarom Hospital provides services covering all aspect of mental health and psychiatry for inpatient and outpatient services. Our services are specifically for general psychiatry and alcohol and substance use disorder."

"Our superior facility is designed to provide patients with comforting and secure environment with private and semi-private rooms. We emphasize multidisciplinary team approach with psychiatrists, clinical psychologists, psychiatric nurses, occupational/recreational/physical therapists and mental health assistants that work with every patient in the unit."

http://www.manarom.com/indexEng.htm

By all measures that I am familiar with, this easily appears to be the best facility of its kind in the country and is long overdue as well as so desperately needed.

As you are in Bangkok now, I would urge you to go see them TODAY to get your wife that complete treatment she is so dreadfully in need of.

9 Sukhumvit Soi 70/3 Bangna, Bangkok 10260, Thailand

Tel : 02 725 9595 Fax : 02 7259599

-----------------------------------------

Good luck, Simon.... and Good Luck, Mrs. Simon... There is hope for both of you.

[LaoPo]

Great post, SJ !

Hope this can be of help for Simon's wife.

LaoPo

[simon43]

Thanks VERY much for that info. I will indeed, go and visit this hospital today.

My wife is meeting a doctor (and friend) tomorrow. Hopefully, he can help. But if not, then this new hospital certainly looks of interest.

I will keep you informed!

Simon

[Huw]

While it is true that many psychiatrists and hospitals over medicate, it is also the case that many people who need antidepressent or other psychotropic medication fail to get it, in part because of stigma and well meant but dead wrong advice. Such people often turn to "recreational" drugs or alcohol in an attempt at self-medication.

Another factor to consider is the Thai penchant for forgeting a problem as soon as its manifestations stop...with all types of medications, Thai doctors and hospitals tend to give too short a course.

Your wife sounds to me like she has a definite chemical imbalance in her brain and will certainly need medication, possibly for a long time. If depression is the problem, the shortest time recommended for a course of anti-depressent medication is 6 months, and many people require much longer...some, for life. Even when they also get therapy to resolve the "underlying" issues. Especially people who have been depressed for a long time, their brain chemistry may just not be able to straighten itself out in the absence of medication.

Can't say whether this will be the case with your wife or not, but just be aware that she may need to be on medication a long time and don't hesitate if it is helping her.

Also - be aware that these medications should never be stopped abruptly, they have to be tapered off while under a therapist's or psychiatrists' care.

Sheryl makes some good points. Here is a different but supporting perspective. As a psychologist and hypnotherapist I was asked to see a Thai lady a few months ago who had a history of obsessiveness, anxiety and self-harm (not depression so far as I could make out but I am not a clinician) . She certainly had some difficulties in her marriage which I could easily envisage would make her feel down, and which should have alerted the psychiatrist to suggest therapy of some kind.

Instead, she had been prescribed what I can only describe as a hel_l-broth of medication, including some fairly big hitters. Of the 6 medications, 2 were to counter the side effects of another 2, and there were 2 conflicting medications, each of which had the other listed as a contraindication.

The lady was a bit of a mess when I saw her, and it appears that the original diagnosis and precsription was made on the basis of a 'very brief' consultation. To quote the lady herself, the psychiatrist was reaching for the prescription pad just about as soon as she mentioned feeling 'depressed'. Since then she had been back to the original psychiatrist on several occasions in what can only be described as a dazed and confused state, which I assume the psychiatrist thought was perfectly acceptable.

As an aside, I have a friend who is a Thai psychiatrist. He has referred western) clients to me for depression. He confided to me frankly that Thai psychiatrists are really not skilled in depressive illness and they know very little at all about treating westerners. He also noted that 'very often, if Thai people feel anxious or depressed, they will go to the local Wat' - hardly a satisfactory approach for real depression in my opinion.

This is a real worry. I havent been able to find official figures on suicide in Thailand but I suspect it is quite high; the whole culture of never admitting a mistake and never admitting to weakness or mental informity seems likely to be conducive to a high suicide rate.

Having said all of this, I am no more skilled in treating Thai patients than Thai psychiatrists are, but among westerners, diagnoses of anxiety or depression point to clear and well-signposted care pathways. It seems like depression is something to be swept under a carpet here.

I know your wife is Thai and I really do feel for the situation both you and she find yourselves in. Whilst it is clear that you need to do something to help her, I caution against setting too much reliance upon Thai psychiatrists because they seem to be under too heavy a load and have too little understanding of the problem - they seem to be altogether too ready to prescribe heavy-duty drugs. Your situation is made more difficult because western psychiatrists are unlikely to fare better with Thai patients than are Thai psychiatrists with western patients.

Sheryls experience is that Thai psychiatrists prescribe for too short a time on the basis that if the symptoms disappear then the problem has gone away and the medication is no longer needed. If this is true then what she is saying is that the Thai psychiatrists know little about the proper use of medication in depressive illness. My own (admittedly limited) experience is that they prescribe for too long; partly because of the financial incentives they get from the drug companies and partly because I think at least some of them believe that anything that dulls the symptoms is actually solving the underlying problem. Which mostly it isnt. So far as depression is concerned (as opposed to more hardcore psychiatric disorders), unless there is a actual pathology, drugs should be regarded as simply buying healing time.

Hope this helps shed light anyway, I regret it isnt going to do more than that and I do hope I havent come over as being too bleak in repsect of Thai psychiatrists..

Edited March 23, 2007 by Huw

[Huw]

Timing is everything and now it would certainly seem like you have a truly viable option available to you, Simon.

This is brand new and the first of its kind in Thailand:

Dr Chantima Ongkosit Krairiksh, right, and Dr Kraisit Narukhat-phicha, left, joined about 80 Thai psychiatrists to found Manarom Hospital, Thailand's first private psychiatric hospital.

The Nation, Photos in the News, 22 March, 2007

From their website:

"Our trained and highly qualified multidisciplinary staff strives to provide the highest level of psychiatric care possible for every client through a continuum of therapy that includes diagnostic evaluations, treatments, relapse preventions and aftercare. We aim to provide services covering holistic aspects of mental health and psychiatry."

"Manarom Hospital provides services covering all aspect of mental health and psychiatry for inpatient and outpatient services. Our services are specifically for general psychiatry and alcohol and substance use disorder."

"Our superior facility is designed to provide patients with comforting and secure environment with private and semi-private rooms. We emphasize multidisciplinary team approach with psychiatrists, clinical psychologists, psychiatric nurses, occupational/recreational/physical therapists and mental health assistants that work with every patient in the unit."

http://www.manarom.com/indexEng.htm

By all measures that I am familiar with, this easily appears to be the best facility of its kind in the country and is long overdue as well as so desperately needed.

As you are in Bangkok now, I would urge you to go see them TODAY to get your wife that complete treatment she is so dreadfully in need of.

9 Sukhumvit Soi 70/3 Bangna, Bangkok 10260, Thailand

Tel : 02 725 9595 Fax : 02 7259599

-----------------------------------------

Good luck, Simon.... and Good Luck, Mrs. Simon... There is hope for both of you.

It is truly unfortunate that the image of Thai psychiatric help has not been greatly served by the case of Dr Prakitpao. To be candid, the lapses in governance, mis-diagnosis of the suspected chemical cause of the psychosis and at least the possibility that he was confined at the request of his wife merely hours after applying for a divorce paint a discomforting picture. As indeed does the necessity that a court found to remove him from the hospital at which he was initially confined. One hopes this story (if it is as reported) is not representative of Thai psychiatric competence.

[tim armstrong]

Timing is everything and now it would certainly seem like you have a truly viable option available to you, Simon.

This is brand new and the first of its kind in Thailand:

Dr Chantima Ongkosit Krairiksh, right, and Dr Kraisit Narukhat-phicha, left, joined about 80 Thai psychiatrists to found Manarom Hospital, Thailand's first private psychiatric hospital.

The Nation, Photos in the News, 22 March, 2007

From their website:

"Our trained and highly qualified multidisciplinary staff strives to provide the highest level of psychiatric care possible for every client through a continuum of therapy that includes diagnostic evaluations, treatments, relapse preventions and aftercare. We aim to provide services covering holistic aspects of mental health and psychiatry."

"Manarom Hospital provides services covering all aspect of mental health and psychiatry for inpatient and outpatient services. Our services are specifically for general psychiatry and alcohol and substance use disorder."

"Our superior facility is designed to provide patients with comforting and secure environment with private and semi-private rooms. We emphasize multidisciplinary team approach with psychiatrists, clinical psychologists, psychiatric nurses, occupational/recreational/physical therapists and mental health assistants that work with every patient in the unit."

http://www.manarom.com/indexEng.htm

By all measures that I am familiar with, this easily appears to be the best facility of its kind in the country and is long overdue as well as so desperately needed.

As you are in Bangkok now, I would urge you to go see them TODAY to get your wife that complete treatment she is so dreadfully in need of.

9 Sukhumvit Soi 70/3 Bangna, Bangkok 10260, Thailand

Tel : 02 725 9595 Fax : 02 7259599

-----------------------------------------

Good luck, Simon.... and Good Luck, Mrs. Simon... There is hope for both of you.

It is truly unfortunate that the image of Thai psychiatric help has not been greatly served by the case of Dr Prakitpao. To be candid, the lapses in governance, mis-diagnosis of the suspected chemical cause of the psychosis and at least the possibility that he was confined at the request of his wife merely hours after applying for a divorce paint a discomforting picture. As indeed does the necessity that a court found to remove him from the hospital at which he was initially confined. One hopes this story (if it is as reported) is not representative of Thai psychiatric competence.

Simon,

Good luck with the new hospital. If you use it, make sure that the non drug input is in the form of an organised and frequent program and not just a token offerring. Its much easier for psych. hospitals to maintain patients by medicating them, - whatever the advertising may say. This may be a good hospital, but it is a for profit commercial venture. Whatever the treatment offerred, the single most important thing is that your wife can develop TRUST in whoever is treating/ managing her. I have seen it in many psych. hospitals in several countries - sometimes its not the health worker who makes the difference, its the person who can establish a 'therapeutic relationship' with your wife.

While there have been some excellent ideas coming from this issue and good advice to you, sometimes too much advice is confusing. It would be a good idea for you to find someONE who you trust that YOU can talk to about it all now, stand back a bit, and reassess your situation. Tim

[sonicdragon]

I was wondering if there was any update from Simon on his wife's condition and treatment ? Has bipolar disorder been confirmed ? Has neurological disease been ruled out ? Has the substance abuse/addiction been thoroughly investigated ?

[John K]

No news is good news, but it still may be too early to tell. Songkran will be a big test.

[ZZZ]

I was just reading an interesting article about vitamin/mineral deficiencies causing mental disorders and thought I post it here, some old research but still very interesting.

This is of course nothing the medical/pharmaceutical world wants to know about. Still makes sense that a healthy diet promotes a healthy mind, after all it's all chemicals up there and if we don't supply them by eating healthy something will go wrong.

"Thirteen depressed patients with bipolar disorder were treated with natural lithium derived from vegetable concentrates. All improved in about ten days and there were no adverse effects. After six weeks, they were taken off of lithium and all regressed to their former depressed state within three days. Two days after lithium was resupplied, their depressions lifted again"

http://orthomolecular.org/library/articles/webach.shtml

[sriracha john]

"Thirteen depressed patients with bipolar disorder were treated with natural lithium derived from vegetable concentrates. All improved in about ten days and there were no adverse effects. After six weeks, they were taken off of lithium and all regressed to their former depressed state within three days. Two days after lithium was resupplied, their depressions lifted again"

http://orthomolecular.org/library/articles/webach.shtml

No great surprise there as the salt Lithium has been the medicine of choice for bipolar disorder for decades. It occurs naturally (and is how it first became known as a treatment when surveys found a town with no bipolar sufferers and discovered that lithium was naturally occuring in the water supply).

Lithium supplied as a pill from a pharmacy and given to a patient is not that much different... it's simply cleaner and more stable with a regulated dose.

[AlexLah]

Hi Simon,

I have had a GF for 8 years with mental problems that manifested after 3 years together.

We were on a holiday in Greece when she slipped on a rock and fell, that is where are the sh1t started.

She fainted and was shivering, very nervous and hyperventilating.

Doctor came in and told her to relax and enjoy.

The holiday was a disaster as everyday she was feeling like that.

Back in my homeland she started taking drugs (XTC and weed) and also dragged me into it.

At that time I thought that maybe I could understand her if I did the same, no way.

I stopped taking drugs after a while as I could see it was a road to disaster.

She continued for a longtime and whatever I did I was not able to stop it.

She did many bad things that I will not tell here but at a point it was more then enough for me and my and her family.

I decided to beat her up, yes I know this sounds very bad but at that time I thought it was the last thing I could try to get to know the why.

And guess what, it worked. I finally got to know the root cause of her problems.

After lots of talking I managed to get her to a clinic where she would spend the next six months of her life.

They put her on Seroxat and some other medication and she became a frikkin Zombie.

When she came back to my house and I tried to connect she started seeing other guys and in the end she ended up with my neighbour.

After a year with him she married him and guess what happened, she filed for divorce 2 days after her marriage as she was having an affair with another guy.

What I am trying to tell you Simon is that some people cannot be helped no matter what you do.

Please do not get your wife on medication as it has been a proven fact that those anti depresants have many negative side effects (Just Google Anti depressants and Violance). Sorry spelling wrong I think.

Try to find out the root cause of her problem (It might be you) and do not be afraid.

Take care,

Alex

[Aussietraveller]

Hi Simon,

I cannot add any constructive advice to this thread, but just wanted to wish you all the best.

I hope that your wife has found the care she needs, and that you are well also.

Take Care

[leisurely]

What is going on now? You posted on March 22nd that you would keep us updated. It is such an intruiging story that we do need to know.

I do truly hope it is good news

Leisurely

[Robski]

<font color='#000000'>Hmmm - I travelled 10,000 km from London last week to be with my GF in Thailand, and we holed up in a romantic hotel in her home-town of Ayuthaya

Hmmm... intruiging indeed...

Simon why have you posted the above in another thread?

I seem to recall a few months ago you started a thread about problems you were having and then after many members gave you very good advice you asked the Mods to close it without ever explaining the outcome.

Please could you explain why you have let this thread go in a similar fashion, and also why you now have a Thai GF that you have just flown 10,000 miles to have a romantic meal with.

Members have made a real effort to help you and also respected your wishes to resist unsavory comments, I think it would be courteous to tell them wether there efforts were in vain.

[Prakanong]

<font color='#000000'>Hmmm - I travelled 10,000 km from London last week to be with my GF in Thailand, and we holed up in a romantic hotel in her home-town of Ayuthaya

Hmmm... intruiging indeed...

Simon why have you posted the above in another thread?

I seem to recall a few months ago you started a thread about problems you were having and then after many members gave you very good advice you asked the Mods to close it without ever explaining the outcome.

Please could you explain why you have let this thread go in a similar fashion, and also why you now have a Thai GF that you have just flown 10,000 miles to have a romantic meal with.

Members have made a real effort to help you and also respected your wishes to resist unsavory comments, I think it would be courteous to tell them wether there efforts were in vain.

Robski - is the date of that post not 2003 ?

[Rhys]

MATE....sorry to hear about your troubles....

Well deep down you have thought about one option that you do not want to consider.. call it your honor, duty, and character...

From the description of your scenario... L E A V E and don't look back.. move on

[bkkmadness]

I'm expect that 2003 quote from Simon come from the Hambali thread right?

And I don't think we should be bullying Simon43 for an answer just to satisfy our own idle need for gossip, advice given here wasn't given on condition was it?

But if you do want some gossip I notice he is selling the shophouse in Nong Kai that he got a few months ago so whether that means he's still with her or not, who knows.

Either way the guys got some hassles to deal with so let's not attack the guy because he's failed to check in with the local mother's meeting.

[Robski]

mmmmmm.... SORRY.

Engage brain, look at date, post.

[GuestHouse]

First and foremost I'd like to offer my sentiments of support to Simon. Those sentimants are accompanied with utter admiration for the example of commitment Simon is giving us all.

I also think the responses and advice of TV members to this thread have been stunning.

Simon,

going back to a theme that came up earlier in the post, you mentioned that you were looking into moving the business more securely under your control, have you been able to do this?

I know that you mention you have income from overseas, but the business you have established and the income it provides, not to mention the sense of achievement are surely something possitive to hold onto, perhaps something to pass to your son.

I would certainly not rule out the fact that the business will be seen by some as up for grabs, either to be eased from your wife in her vulnerable position, or from yourself if the wost happens.

I also feel that while I can understand the motives of moving to Isaan, abandoning/selling the business may leave you yourself vulnerable if things in Isaan don't work out.

You seem to be doing an awful lot of giving, and I am full of admiration for that, but don't leave yourself with nothing to turn to if things fall appart.

GH

[OxfordWill]

Simon I hope things are looking up and I've no doubt the baby can rely on your to be a supportive figure in the coming years. All the best mate.

[jEFFREYk44]

"I also think the responses and advice of TV members to this thread have been stunning" (from a previous responder)

His last post wa3 March 19, was this real? I had a real sympathy thing happening for 14 pages.

[jEFFREYk44]

"She usually weighs about 33kg and is 145cm short!"

That translates to 72.6 lbs and 4.t7 feet high

healthy weight for a 4'10" small frame lady is 102-111 ibs

[qualtrough]

"She usually weighs about 33kg and is 145cm short!"

That translates to 72.6 lbs and 4.t7 feet high

healthy weight for a 4'10" small frame lady is 102-111 ibs

I wondered about that too when I first read it. That is one tiny lady.

[simon43]

Hi - sorry for being out of touch for so long. I don't yet have a reliable internet connection!

To bring everything up to date:

Firstly, I'm not selling the house in Nong Khai! When we relocated to Nong Khai, I was so impressed with the location and 'ambience' of our rented house right by the Mekong River, that I flagged up the fact that the house next door to us is up for sale also.

Concerning my assets, I now have a written agreement that our assets/funds will be split 50/50. This would normally be the case if we were to divorce. We are currently realising some assets, (ie converting them into cash!), and I'll receive half of these funds into my bank account. I could argue for a higher %, but I think Thai law would be on her side for a 50/50 split.

We are still together - just! No day is good, some are very bad and some are bad. My wife has improved somewhat, but still seems to be in a dreamworld many times, (don't many Thai women?!). On other days, she is depressed and will go off and do something really stupid, (like gambling and drinking all day with her friends). Such actions might seem ok from her viewpoint, but they are a definite no-no for me.

I got the written agreement re split of assets because I fear that our marriage will not last.

I've told her to go and get a job, any job - since this will help to keep her mind busy and stop her daydreaming.

As for our son, he remains with our aunt and is very happy and receives regular visits from us. But it still is not possible for him to live with us together. My wife says that she wants him to stay with us, but then rejects the idea in the next breath.

So, life is still on hold really. I'm still racking my brains to think of something that will make my wife get her act together. (An electric cattle prod springs to mind...)

Simon

PS - the weight and height are correct! Whilst there is little I can do about her height, I do encourage her to eat more. She is always anaemic and needs 'top-up' intravenous every few months. I'm sure that such a low body rate cannot help her frame of mind.

[malcolminthemiddle]

Simon,

Have you ever thought about making a serious effort to learn to speak Thai?

Imagine if you could and discuss your problems with your wife in her own language.

Now there's a challenge.

[thaigerd]

Simon,

Have you ever thought about making a serious effort to learn to speak Thai?

Imagine if you could and discuss your problems with your wife in her own language.

Now there's a challenge.

FYI

Simon can speak, write and read Thai.

Have a nice evening!

Gerd

[sriracha john]

Hi - sorry for being out of touch for so long. I don't yet have a reliable internet connection!

To bring everything up to date:

Firstly, I'm not selling the house in Nong Khai! When we relocated to Nong Khai, I was so impressed with the location and 'ambience' of our rented house right by the Mekong River, that I flagged up the fact that the house next door to us is up for sale also.

Concerning my assets, I now have a written agreement that our assets/funds will be split 50/50. This would normally be the case if we were to divorce. We are currently realising some assets, (ie converting them into cash!), and I'll receive half of these funds into my bank account. I could argue for a higher %, but I think Thai law would be on her side for a 50/50 split.

We are still together - just! No day is good, some are very bad and some are bad. My wife has improved somewhat, but still seems to be in a dreamworld many times, (don't many Thai women?!). On other days, she is depressed and will go off and do something really stupid, (like gambling and drinking all day with her friends). Such actions might seem ok from her viewpoint, but they are a definite no-no for me.

I got the written agreement re split of assets because I fear that our marriage will not last.

I've told her to go and get a job, any job - since this will help to keep her mind busy and stop her daydreaming.

As for our son, he remains with our aunt and is very happy and receives regular visits from us. But it still is not possible for him to live with us together. My wife says that she wants him to stay with us, but then rejects the idea in the next breath.

So, life is still on hold really. I'm still racking my brains to think of something that will make my wife get her act together. (An electric cattle prod springs to mind...)

Simon

PS - the weight and height are correct! Whilst there is little I can do about her height, I do encourage her to eat more. She is always anaemic and needs 'top-up' intravenous every few months. I'm sure that such a low body rate cannot help her frame of mind.

Thank you for the update, but sorry to have seen the entire point of this thread, eg. Mental Health with Thai Wife, was completely omitted in the follow-up.

Apparently, she has never received proper treatment...at least no mention of it, which is sad and the source of unnecessary suffering by all concerned.

[malcolminthemiddle]

Simon,

Have you ever thought about making a serious effort to learn to speak Thai?

Imagine if you could and discuss your problems with your wife in her own language.

Now there's a challenge.

FYI

Simon can speak, write and read Thai.

Have a nice evening!

Gerd

Well that's great then.

ไซมอน ถ้ามีใครก็ตามที่ต้องการส่งข้อความถึงคุณ งั้นต้องลงชื่อคุณGerd ?

[jdinasia]

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