Britons would narrowly back remaining in the EU: poll of polls

[impulse]

What I still haven't seen anyone explain is why it required a 2/3 majority vote to get into the EU (rather, the predecessor to the EU) and only a slim majority to get out?

 

In all fairness, I'd have to admit I don't really care, and haven't looked that hard...

 

 

Edited September 29, 2018 by impulse

[rixalex]

 
I see his point. What's the point of doing something that is just going to be reversed.  Especially, something so important.
 
But actually, we would be going back in on worse terms. For a start, we would have to join the Euro.

The point of doing it would be that when you have the second referendum (technically the third of course) nobody would be able to argue that it should just be ignored like the 2016 one. I appreciate it's a lot of extra upheaval leaving and then rejoining but that's the cost of not completely undermining the democratic process.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[blazes]

16 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

If I was into simplistic slogans, I would call that "Project Fear". But I'm not, so I won't.

 

But you did....!!!!

[Nobbie49]

 
Well, based on this there has been no real shift.  Maybe a credible poll which shows even 55% would be worthy of consideration.  The fact is leave won.  The most salient issue is how to carry through the mandate in a manner that is reasonable; no deal clearly isn't imo.
 
I'm not opposed to polls but why don't they ask questions on the issues we all need to know about:
 
1. Do you support a no deal Brexit?
 
2. Would you prefer a no deal Brexit, or the Norway model?
 
3. Would you prefer a deferment subject to a properly negotiated exit?
 
I'm sure there are other questions too.  But am I the only one who really doesn't know where the public really stands on these fundamental points?
 
 

The 51% that voted for brexit wouldn’t understand some if not all of your q’s


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Kiwiken]

Vote for Civil war. Must be another Cromwell waiting somewhere in the wings

[Kieran00001]

41 minutes ago, impulse said:

What I still haven't seen anyone explain is why it required a 2/3 majority vote to get into the EU (rather, the predecessor to the EU) and only a slim majority to get out?

 

In all fairness, I'd have to admit I don't really care, and haven't looked that hard...

 

 

 

It didn't, it was withdrawn before the referendum, all that was needed was 1 vote above 50% of whatever turnout there was, which on the day was about 2/3 anyway.

 

Quote

"The issue was debated at Commons report stage, when Peter Emery (Conservative) moved a new clause to declare the result null and void unless there was a turnout of 60% of the eligible electorate and at least a two-thirds majority 'yes' or 'no'.  In face of Government resistance, the new clause was withdrawn."

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN02809

 

 

[metisdead]

Off topic trolling posts and the replies have been removed.  This topic has nothing whatsoever to do with the US Election in which Trump won. 

[Stupooey]

3 hours ago, blazes said:

 

But you did....!!!!

 

Oh no I didn't....!!!

[iroc4life]

The EU is in self protect mode, they know when the Brexit is done and the Brits survive as they always have survived, other member states will get big ideas about leaving to. What better way to cement them in than by locking them into one central Bank and 1 central currency. Much like the US Fed Reserve. Then all the leaving talk and hopes will be done. When you hold their money and economy you have them trapped, unless of course there is rebellion?? Thats never happened before has it

[Andrew65]

3 hours ago, Stupooey said:

 

Hardly. The European Constitution was scuppered by negative referendum votes in France and the Netherlands.

..they just renamed it the Lisbon Treaty, changed some of the wording, then ratified it anyway.

 

As I said, all these treaties HAVE to be ratified by all member states, regardless of referenda or their outcomes.

 

Do keep-up!????????

 

It'll probably take at least one more such treaty to achieve the superstate-dom that they've always aimed for. They know that countries like Greece & Spain can't be allowed to control their own gvt budgets without needing bailouts from other member-states, probably should add Italy to the list.

[Stupooey]

1 hour ago, Andrew65 said:

..they just renamed it the Lisbon Treaty, changed some of the wording, then ratified it anyway.

 

As I said, all these treaties HAVE to be ratified by all member states, regardless of referenda or their outcomes.

 

Do keep-up!????????

 

It'll probably take at least one more such treaty to achieve the superstate-dom that they've always aimed for. They know that countries like Greece & Spain can't be allowed to control their own gvt budgets without needing bailouts from other member-states, probably should add Italy to the list.

 

I'd love to know who this mysterious "they" is that people keep referring to, who seem to operate outside the Parliament, the Commission and the Council of Ministers, yet have been blessed with sort of omnipotence. You have them ratifying the Treaty of Lisbon without any input from the member nations, although your second paragraph then contradicts this. Not surprising i find it difficult to "keep up" (but no need to be quite so condescending). You then tell us that "they" have always aimed for a superstate, but don't explain how "they" haven't managed to get anywhere near this in almost 60 years, despite their supernatural powers. "They" must also be getting quite old by now.

 

Or is this just yet more scaremongering?

[Andrew65]

2 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

I'd love to know who this mysterious "they" is that people keep referring to, who seem to operate outside the Parliament, the Commission and the Council of Ministers, yet have been blessed with sort of omnipotence. You have them ratifying the Treaty of Lisbon without any input from the member nations, although your second paragraph then contradicts this. Not surprising i find it difficult to "keep up" (but no need to be quite so condescending). You then tell us that "they" have always aimed for a superstate, but don't explain how "they" haven't managed to get anywhere near this in almost 60 years, despite their supernatural powers. "They" must also be getting quite old by now.

 

Or is this just yet more scaremongering?

Ummm........................the EU, Brussels, a supra-national entity. 

 

As for you not believing that it is eventually to be a United States of Europe, as the Americans say "keep drinking the Kool Aid".

 

It was always planned to be something that would happen very gradually, over a long period of time.

 

“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose but which will irreversibly lead to federation.”

 

Jean Monnet

[Esso49]

Well as much as I would like to see a second one, if only to put the matter to bed the arguments either way now that people have been able to see through all the lies and scaremongering, I can not see it happening unfortunately.

[Andrew65]

6 hours ago, impulse said:

What I still haven't seen anyone explain is why it required a 2/3 majority vote to get into the EU (rather, the predecessor to the EU) and only a slim majority to get out?

 

In all fairness, I'd have to admit I don't really care, and haven't looked that hard...

 

 

There never was a vote in Britain about joining the EEC/EU.

[rixalex]

Ummm........................the EU, Brussels, a supra-national entity. 
 
As for you not believing that it is eventually to be a United States of Europe, as the Americans say "keep drinking the Kool Aid".
 
It was always planned to be something that would happen very gradually, over a long period of time.
 
“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose but which will irreversibly lead to federation.”
 
Jean Monnet

Although I'm a leaver now (never used to be) it's only very recently that I've actually myself started to take this United States of Europe thing seriously. One of the things that really made me sit up and take notice was comments, some even on here, from people from smaller nations of the EU, saying about how that is something they would favour - a superstate. Before I had always dismissed the idea on the basis that no EU nation would want something like that, whether or not the EU desired it, and therefore it would never happen. I now see how, particularly for smaller nations, it would have its supporters. .

I think anyone who rules it out as "never going to happen" needs a rethink. Stranger things have happened.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Stupooey]

12 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

Ummm........................the EU, Brussels, a supra-national entity. 

 

As for you not believing that it is eventually to be a United States of Europe, as the Americans say "keep drinking the Kool Aid".

 

It was always planned to be something that would happen very gradually, over a long period of time.

 

“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose but which will irreversibly lead to federation.”

 

Jean Monnet

 

So this almost certainly fictitious Monnet quote gets yet another airing. It was allegedly included in a letter to a friend in 1952 (yes, 66 years ago), although no evidence has been found to support this. Simply more scaremongering.

[Lokie]

Complete and Utter Bull $ hi t! Poll of polls my ar $e...

[Kieran00001]

22 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

Ummm........................the EU, Brussels, a supra-national entity. 

 

As for you not believing that it is eventually to be a United States of Europe, as the Americans say "keep drinking the Kool Aid".

 

It was always planned to be something that would happen very gradually, over a long period of time.

 

“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose but which will irreversibly lead to federation.”

 

Jean Monnet

 

That is not a real Jean Monnet quote, it is a characterisation of her written by Adrian Hilton the Daily Mail blogger.

 

[Kieran00001]

7 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

So this almost certainly fictitious Monnet quote gets yet another airing. It was allegedly included in a letter to a friend in 1952 (yes, 66 years ago), although no evidence has been found to support this. Simply more scaremongering.

 

We know who wrote it, see above.

[Andrew65]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

That is not a real Jean Monnet quote, it is a characterisation of her written by Adrian Hilton the Daily Mail blogger.

 

Monnet was a he, not a her.

[Andrew65]

More lies?

 

The countries of Europe are too small to guarantee their peoples the necessary prosperity and social development. The European states must constitute themselves into a federation.
 

Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/jean_monnet

[iroc4life]

Europe has tried to be joined many times in the past, Im sure since the beginning, via force. Just to be disbanded again and again. This is the same thing but is being done economically and with the peoples un-knowing cooperation instead of with troops. 

[3NUMBAS]

too late now not enough time before exit day next march ..tough titty losers

[Kieran00001]

17 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

More lies?

 

The countries of Europe are too small to guarantee their peoples the necessary prosperity and social development. The European states must constitute themselves into a federation.
 

Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/jean_monnet

 

Quote

brainyquote

A notoriously unreliable, inaccurate website visited by knuckle-dragging drooling losers who are trying to appear intelligent and culturally literate in school or on the internet.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=brainyquote

 

[Stupooey]

25 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Although I'm a leaver now (never used to be) it's only very recently that I've actually myself started to take this United States of Europe thing seriously. One of the things that really made me sit up and take notice was comments, some even on here, from people from smaller nations of the EU, saying about how that is something they would favour - a superstate. Before I had always dismissed the idea on the basis that no EU nation would want something like that, whether or not the EU desired it, and therefore it would never happen. I now see how, particularly for smaller nations, it would have its supporters. .

I think anyone who rules it out as "never going to happen" needs a rethink. Stranger things have happened.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

It might have its attractions to some of the smaller nations (although most seem to value their individuality), but it highly unlikely that all 28, 27 (or however many members there are at the time) would agree to it. Juncker, coming from a small country, often talks along those lines but nobody (apart from the British press) takes him that seriously. Perhaps the one good thing to have come out of Brexit so far is that he has learned to rein in some of his more outlandish suggestions.

[Stupooey]

23 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

More lies?

 

The countries of Europe are too small to guarantee their peoples the necessary prosperity and social development. The European states must constitute themselves into a federation.
 

Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/jean_monnet

 

...or a European entity that would make them into a common economic unit. One man's opinion from 1943 (Monnet, not Mohammed) and hardly an endorsement of a United States of Europe.

Easy to mislead if you misquote. Almost as bad as that "ever closer union" misquote we keep hearing, although even that is better than the alternative - "ever further separation of the people" anyone?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Stupooey said:

 

It might have its attractions to some of the smaller nations (although most seem to value their individuality), but it highly unlikely that all 28, 27 (or however many members there are at the time) would agree to it. Juncker, coming from a small country, often talks along those lines but nobody (apart from the British press) takes him that seriously. Perhaps the one good thing to have come out of Brexit so far is that he has learned to rein in some of his more outlandish suggestions.

 

If you are really interesting about the topic, listen to this talk. You'll also understand a lot more how the Europeans think.

 

 

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

Monnet was a he, not a her.

And your "quote" is still a fake. Which error is more significant?

[Hogs]

On 9/28/2018 at 1:38 PM, Bluespunk said:

It’s not too late. 

 

Britain is still in the eu. 

The PEOPLE VOTED 

RESPECT IT you dont get to play the cup Final a second time because your teams lost 

Suck it up snowflake UK IS LEAVING that is 100% if not watch what happens

 

[Kieran00001]

8 minutes ago, Hogs said:

The PEOPLE VOTED 

RESPECT IT you dont get to play the cup Final a second time because your teams lost 

Suck it up snowflake UK IS LEAVING that is 100% if not watch what happens

 

 

What do you think will happen if not?