Can i protect my dog from other dogs?

[Stokakrishna]

Yesterday unfortunate thing happened. 

While i was walking my dog on the beach in Huahin (ive been taking my dog to the beach everyday for past 9 months) another dog (beach dog, fed by locals) attacked and bit my dog.

My  german shepherd is totally non-aggressive, doesnt even bark, is super friendly and very obedient. Duting the attack my dog was on a short leash.

 I tried to shove off the other dog with a kick, of course i missed, and that dog kept attacking my dog.

 Immidiately local Thais (horse rider and lady selling drinks on the beach) started screaming at me: NO KICK!!

CALL POLICE!! etc.

 There were another 10-15 thais playing at the beach (tourists), which just looked at the situation.

So i was the bad farang for protecting my dog from aggressive one.

 Is there anything i can do? Can i protect my dog? Or  cannot? Can they  arrest me for kicking an agressive dog?

I already know Thailand is well behind rest of the world as a dog can kill a baby and owner do not face any responsibility.

 But can i protect myself (if yes how??)

[Kwasaki]

Don't know about your dog maybe off the lead he/she would defend itself.

In Thailand if there are dogs where you go walking carry a walking stick.

 

[Vacuum]

48 minutes ago, Stokakrishna said:

Immidiately local Thais (horse rider and lady selling drinks on the beach) started screaming at me: NO KICK!! 

 

You can only hope that the horse rider someday will get kicked in the head by his horse. Maybe he'll change his opinion about free roaming dogs. Why are the allowed on the beach, or anywhere else, in the first place?

[Oxx]

When something similar happened to me a couple of locals took off their sandals and threw them at the aggressor.  It backed down, and my puppy wasn't too badly hurt.

[Stokakrishna]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Don't know about your dog maybe off the lead he/she would defend itself.

In Thailand if there are dogs where you go walking carry a walking stick.

 

Unfortunately she is unable to defend/fight back, even if off the leash. She would simply run away.  She has just the looks of GS, she is a total pacifist.

And yes. Walking stick from now on

[chrisinth]

9 minutes ago, Arjen said:

The official rule in Thailand is when a dog attacks on public ground the dog is wrong, usualy will be killed, and the owner (if found) is responsible for caused damage.

 

On the other hand, when a dog attacks on private ground, even when the owner allowed you to enter, the dog is never wrong, and the owner can not be forced to pay compensation (although most owners will do) 

 

When your dog is walking on public road, and is hitted by a car, the dog owner is responsible for damage to the car. When the car should drive on your private property, the car owner is responsible for damage to the dog.

 

This is the official rule. As usual, there are many ways to solve this in Thailand.

 

As stated above. To prevent this in future, let your dog of the lease, and take a few steps back. Usually the initial fight stops. Mostly dogs see people running around when they fight as an encouragement to continue. And usual, when a fight has ended there will be no future fights. When you separate the dogs, or stop them fighting on any way, there will be always problems when you meet the same dog again.

 

It are mostly the owners who start the fight. (without knowing, but by not reading the language a dog sends out when meeting an other dog, most owners support their dog, or the opponent dog to start the fight.)

 

The best thing to do, let your dog off the leash, and walk 10 meters away. Usually the fight stops in seconds. When not, there is a serious problem, to stop that kind of fights you must be a kind of "Superman" I am speaking from experience, I am not a "Superman" and have been several times serious injured by fighting dogs.....

 

Arjen.

I'm not sure about the legal aspects of the situation the OP is in, but the second part of your post is spot on. That said, it can be a difficult thing for some dog owners to do (letting them off leash) if they have been treating the dog as a human since they have had it/them.

[Stokakrishna]

9 minutes ago, Arjen said:

The official rule in Thailand is when a dog attacks on public ground the dog is wrong, usualy will be killed, and the owner (if found) is responsible for caused damage.

 

On the other hand, when a dog attacks on private ground, even when the owner allowed you to enter, the dog is never wrong, and the owner can not be forced to pay compensation (although most owners will do) 

 

When your dog is walking on public road, and is hitted by a car, the dog owner is responsible for damage to the car. When the car should drive on your private property, the car owner is responsible for damage to the dog.

 

This is the official rule. As usual, there are many ways to solve this in Thailand.

 

As stated above. To prevent this in future, let your dog of the lease, and take a few steps back. Usually the initial fight stops. Mostly dogs see people running around when they fight as an encouragement to continue. And usual, when a fight has ended there will be no future fights. When you separate the dogs, or stop them fighting on any way, there will be always problems when you meet the same dog again.

 

It are mostly the owners who start the fight. (without knowing, but by not reading the language a dog sends out when meeting an other dog, most owners support their dog, or the opponent dog to start the fight.)

 

The best thing to do, let your dog off the leash, and walk 10 meters away. Usually the fight stops in seconds. When not, there is a serious problem, to stop that kind of fights you must be a kind of "Superman" I am speaking from experience, I am not a "Superman" and have been several times serious injured by fighting dogs.....

 

Arjen.

Thank you for the advice.

The problem with my dog is she won't fight, just run away. And thats causes other dogs  go really mad, chase and bite her.

 I wish i could somehow train her or awake her defensive instinct. She is just 11 months old, so perhaps there is a hope for her

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, Arjen said:

The best thing to do, let your dog off the leash, and walk 10 meters away. Usually the fight stops in seconds.

 

I think the attacking beach dog will not stop fighting OP's dog, it regards this area of the beach as it's territory and it's fed by the Thai beach people. 

Best for OP to avoid the area IMO and take his dog for a rabies injection.

[Kwasaki]

4 minutes ago, Stokakrishna said:

Thank you for the advice.

The problem with my dog is she won't fight, just run away. And thats causes other dogs  go really mad, chase and bite her.

 I wish i could somehow train her or awake her defensive instinct. She is just 11 months old, so perhaps there is a hope for her

She is still only a pup 1.1/2 to 2 years she may well change.  

[chrisinth]

22 minutes ago, Stokakrishna said:

Thank you for the advice.

The problem with my dog is she won't fight, just run away. And thats causes other dogs  go really mad, chase and bite her.

 I wish i could somehow train her or awake her defensive instinct. She is just 11 months old, so perhaps there is a hope for her

 

That statement, "unfortunately she is unable to defend/fight back" tells a story Stokakrishna. That is the way that you see it only, and not necessarily the point of view of the dog. Generally, through the nature of the beast, a dog will be unable to defend or protect itself only if it is injured or sick.

 

Obviously I don't know the relationship between yourself and your GSD, but I am guessing that you are very protective of it. Perhaps too much so? Said only as a bit of advice, perhaps you should change you ways of interaction with her and start building self-esteem and confidence within the dog so she can handle situations like this; socialize her more with other dogs and let them play rough. She will thank you for it later.

 

As Arjen said in an earlier post, most of these type of confrontations (attacks on dogs on leash by others) can be blamed partly to the owners and their reactions to the attack, or rather pre-attack. Never ever try to pull your leashed dog away from a fight, always walk towards. The attacking dogs pick up on everything you do.

 

Stokakrishna, this isn't a dig just at you, I learn't this the hard way many years ago. I currently have a 2 year old male GSD and a 9 year old Siberian which I walk every day past packs of dogs from 3 to 15 dogs a pack. My GSD appeared to be extremely territorial around the house property, but it was also an insecure, bordering on fearful dog for it's first year. These, IMO, are the most dangerous dogs (with the exception of pure aggression) that you can have as it takes very little to provoke a 'defensive' attack when least expecting it. It took a lot of 'rough' play (never abusive), ignoring and introduction to other dogs to really give him the confidence that he has now.

 

EDIT: Just read your later posts Arjen, and again, IMO, 100% spot on.

[falangjim]

Guys I knew who were getting attacked by dogs in public whilst on their walks started carrying a golf-club.  A nine-iron will do the trick.

[Juan B Tong]

In this dog eat dog country, I fear your poochie is a pussy.

[jak2002003]

I have 2 Chihuahua dogs... one adult and one half grown puppy.  They are really tiny. I also had another poodle mix dog which died of old age this year.  

 

My dogs are off the lead most of the time when out for a walk around the village (only put them on a leash when near a main road.  Always there are some dogs that will come running out barking and growling, but I just stay calm and relaxed which soon diffuses the situation.  I just let them get on with their social life.. lots of sniffing and dog body language.... and often I am followed by a pack of big street dogs as a kind of escort service lol.  

 

In the 10 plus years of walking the dogs in different places nearly every day I have NEVER had another dog bite any of mine.  When off the leash the dogs will behave naturally, and a physical injury is very unlikely.  Mostly is a lot of scary noise and teeth showing.  Dogs on a street or outside a shop / on a beach.. will always make their presence known by barking and running up to a new dog... because they are showing the dog this area is their territory.  

 

Being on the lead adds extra stress to a dog because it can not have the space to get away... and their nervous behaviour, and also the owners getting nervous, will make the loose dog go on the attack in many cases as they get confused by the dogs body language and behaviour on the lead.

 

Also if an owner gets upset, nervous and starts acting protective over the dog on the lead, this makes their dog think they are in danger and get anxious and worked up.

 

OP... is there a reason you don't let you dog off the leash?  Have you worked on obedience training and the recall command etc?  As you dog is still a puppy you need to socialise her with lots of other dogs... especially now... so you won't be frightened of them and try to run away each time a dog gets near her.

 

 

[jimn]

You just need to be prepared in Thailand. Wherever I walk my dog be it on the beach or around my gated community I always carry a long cane stick. Its more as a deterrent. If a stray dog aporoaches just tap it on the ground and they will back off. I have never had to hit another dog with it and I dont want too, its as I say there with you for the dogs to get the message.

[Formaleins]

1 hour ago, falangjim said:

Guys I knew who were getting attacked by dogs in public whilst on their walks started carrying a golf-club.  A nine-iron will do the trick.

I got surrounded and harassed by a pack of about 20 feral mutts when I was walking back through Mae Hong Son one night about 15 years ago, I was with my wife just walking along this quiet lane back to the hotel when this pack attacked. The wife screams at me to grab a stick or something.

I picks up this 3 foot branch from the side of the road and immediately the dogs fled. It was only as I gripped the stick and it turned to powder in my hands I realized how lucky I had been, If it had tried to hit the dogs it would have just crumbled into nothing. totally rotten. The dogs may have found it so hilarious that they would have been incapable of attacking as no doubt their sides would have been splitting from their laughter....."Farang….ha ha ha ha"

[oldrunner]

He/She might be a German Shepard but surely the runt of the litter. I owned a White German Shepard who literally mauled a dog in the process of attacking me. The damage was rather extensive to the attacking dog, the owner phoned the Police who came to collect my dog. Fortunately a neighbor had been looking out her kitchen window, saw the whole melee and when she saw the Police car came running. She explained who the aggressor dog was and the Police left. Never did see the attacking dog again. Too bad, one of her owners was a cut little 5 year old, as I was at the time.

 

[CharlieH]

Post promoting cruelty has been removed.

[paddyfield7]

My recommendation would have been: make sure your next dog is a German shepherd, but when I continued reading..... . Personally, I'm not afraid of any Thai dogs, as I grew up with a German shepherd in Switzerland. When we bought some land in Sansai, Chiang Mai, and I walked accross the area for the 1st time, I suddenly had 17 (seventeen) dogs around me, all barking and snarling their teeth. I went after the biggest one, brought his neck to the ground and  kneeled on him until he whined and ran away. Some followed him, and after bringing another two or three dogs to the ground, I was left alone and enjoyed the view of our future land (which is now fenced and "dog proof"). My experience with soi dogs is: they are loved by the local people, but noone feels responsible if they are doing any damage. On the other hand, if YOU do any damage to a dog (e.g. by bike or car), you have to run for your life. 

[connda]

4 hours ago, Arjen said:

The official rule in Thailand is when a dog attacks on public ground the dog is wrong, usualy will be killed, and the owner (if found) is responsible for caused damage.

 

On the other hand, when a dog attacks on private ground, even when the owner allowed you to enter, the dog is never wrong, and the owner can not be forced to pay compensation (although most owners will do) 

 

When your dog is walking on public road, and is hitted by a car, the dog owner is responsible for damage to the car. When the car should drive on your private property, the car owner is responsible for damage to the dog.

 

This is the official rule. As usual, there are many ways to solve this in Thailand.

 

As stated above. To prevent this in future, let your dog of the lease, and take a few steps back. Usually the initial fight stops. Mostly dogs see people running around when they fight as an encouragement to continue. And usual, when a fight has ended there will be no future fights. When you separate the dogs, or stop them fighting on any way, there will be always problems when you meet the same dog again.

 

It are mostly the owners who start the fight. (without knowing, but by not reading the language a dog sends out when meeting an other dog, most owners support their dog, or the opponent dog to start the fight.)

 

The best thing to do, let your dog off the leash, and walk 10 meters away. Usually the fight stops in seconds. When not, there is a serious problem, to stop that kind of fights you must be a kind of "Superman" I am speaking from experience, I am not a "Superman" and have been several times serious injured by fighting dogs.....

 

Arjen.

Well stated. 

[TravelerEastWest]

Of course you can defend yourself and your dog if need be.

 

Your dog is very young still, when he is two years old I think the Thai dogs will always run away. Being close to your dog now as in your photo is great he will be close to you and your family and protect you later.

 

I walk my GSD daily on a village road and local dogs like to growl but my dog is much larger and not scared at all of anything including buffalos and bulls etc - which is not always good...

 

I keep him on a leash when outside to protect others - he is an angel with the family but will chase cats or dogs that bark at him etc.

 

I am in awe of those who are so good at training their dogs that they won't chase a cat and will listen 100% at all times. I am not willing to take a chance and as a courtesy I make him sit when someone walks by as he is large and scares people who are not used to a GSD.

[Chris747]

I am also owner of a GSD and funny enough the first 2 years of her life she spent with us in Huahin. 

 

Because it's my very first dog i did all the mistakes you could possibly do - like being convinced that i must walk my dog every day to give him enough exercise. That resulted me and my 6 month old GSD walking around Huahins neighbourhood with all the teritorial Soi dogs barking and lunging at us, leaving my GSD totally traumatized. Even if myself I felt pretty self confident on the walks, but i wasn't aware that in fact i was scared myself and my bodylanguage reflected it.

 

A good advice - i don't know if the OP is a first time dog owner - would be to record yourself on video to see from another perspective on how you behave on walks or while train your dog. Self Awareness is key and totally underestimated especially with first time dog owners.

 

Now my GSD is 4 1/2 and we left Hua Hin living in the north of Thailand now. I luckily know an area where i can walk with her for an hour not encountering any other (Soi-) dogs. She's fine with dogs that she knows, but it takes about 3-4 encounters until she trusts another dog.

 

When she's off-leash she's alot calmer when meeting other dogs but still very afraid. Luckily she's awesome with people, very trustworthy and respectfull.

 

To the OP: looks like the trick with the stick works fine - carry one with you on walks - every dog-walker over here is doing it - and it gives you already a certain confidence which also reflects subconsciously in your bodylanguage.

 

[Stokakrishna]

Thank all of you guys for replies.

 It is true i ak veryvorotective of my GSD, which i understand now was a mistake.

The reason fot it was, to train her to be praceful dog, so no thais can blame or harass me or my dog for her behaviour. 

I see now that sword has two edges...

She has never really socialize with other dogs, as i never let her play with stray dogs, and none of my friends has a dog. 

 I know she is very vulnerable now as  she doesnt really know how to  brhave with other dogs, all she she wants to do is to play, even with the ones that want to bite her, only then she realizes they do not want t play. 

 

My fault.

 

The reason why i made post was because i felt  very frustrated and intimidated by the thais acting this way.

 Screaming at me, and trying to  impose themesves on me. Scary in a way when  bunch of people want to fight you, cause you defend your dog. 

I will try to do as you guys advised.

Hope its not too late

Stoka

[Ebumbu]

2 hours ago, vsigrist said:

My recommendation would have been: make sure your next dog is a German shepherd, but when I continued reading..... . Personally, I'm not afraid of any Thai dogs, as I grew up with a German shepherd in Switzerland. When we bought some land in Sansai, Chiang Mai, and I walked accross the area for the 1st time, I suddenly had 17 (seventeen) dogs around me, all barking and snarling their teeth. I went after the biggest one, brought his neck to the ground and  kneeled on him until he whined and ran away. Some followed him, and after bringing another two or three dogs to the ground, I was left alone and enjoyed the view of our future land (which is now fenced and "dog proof"). 

 

 

Yes, one must learn Dogjistu. 

[jrjrjr]

3 hours ago, vsigrist said:

My recommendation would have been: make sure your next dog is a German shepherd, but when I continued reading..... . Personally, I'm not afraid of any Thai dogs, as I grew up with a German shepherd in Switzerland. When we bought some land in Sansai, Chiang Mai, and I walked accross the area for the 1st time, I suddenly had 17 (seventeen) dogs around me, all barking and snarling their teeth. I went after the biggest one, brought his neck to the ground and  kneeled on him until he whined and ran away. Some followed him, and after bringing another two or three dogs to the ground, I was left alone and enjoyed the view of our future land (which is now fenced and "dog proof"). My experience with soi dogs is: they are loved by the local people, but noone feels responsible if they are doing any damage. On the other hand, if YOU do any damage to a dog (e.g. by bike or car), you have to run for your life. 

 

This is the only thing to do, show that you are not scare by them, and they will backup.

 

 

[Mac98]

Is it possible the Thais yelled not to kick because you could lose a leg? On defense, carry a cattle prod.

[Stokakrishna]

5 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

 

 

OP... is there a reason you don't let you dog off the leash?  Have you worked on obedience training and the recall command etc?  As you dog is still a puppy you need to socialise her with lots of other dogs... especially now... so you won't be frightened of them and try to run away each time a dog gets near her.

 

 

I let my dog off the leash all the time, she is very smart. Listens to my commands, if i want she walks next to my leg, or runs when ok let her.  At that moment yesterday i put her on a leash when i saw from a distance dogs running at her. 

[Bob12345]

Very interesting to read the extensive replies of other members, especially of Arjen (who is maybe also Dutch? ) who explains it well and points out some interesting things that you can work with. While I do agree with him, i would like to make the small addition that what he says will work perfectly well in the west where your dog has been socialized, and the dogs he meets also (up to a certain degree). Many dogs will instantly like or tolerate each other, and when not, they will "fight" it out with noise and body language which might be followed by a few seconds of action.

 

One of the problems here in Thailand though is that most people do not socialize their dog. 

Your dog is fearfull and might react "strange" as he does not know how to handle other dogs, but maybe the dog he meets is the result of inbreeding and years of abuse by locals. Good chance such a dog will not stop when your dog surrenders resulting in serious injury, and a small chance it has rabies.

 

To avoid that situation I always carry around a stiff bamboo stick (about 50-60cm) long with on one side nails hammered in ("head" sticking out, not the point). When a dog does go for my dog agressively I will be there first and he will know what is coming. The first hit will be with the blunt part, the second with the nails. 

 

So far we have met hundreds of dogs in our moobaans, in parks, and on other walks, and there have almost never been any problems. My dog approaches the other dogs, they play around, or signal problems, and the dogs solve it between themselves. The leash I use is 8 meters long and as long as the other dog does not signal "insanity" i let them find their way. The only exception has been when a dog came from behind and went straight for my dog who was not even looking that way. No barking, no growling, just biting. It received the first hit on the body and immediately took off with whining sounds to stand its ground and take a second look. That is the moment I approach it to make sure the fight is over, and it was over. No problems anymore since then.

 

I would recommend you take a similar approach. Have a walking stick or something similar with you to fight off the most agressive dogs you come across, but in all other cases let your dog fight it our himself.

 

Btw, I would never let my dog off the leash in a situation like that as they might start chasing each other and end up in traffic. 

 

 

 

p.s. I have a labrador which is about the softest and sweetest dog you can find, as long as you dont mind her sniffing your crotch.

[Destiny1990]

The question is why are there still unleashed aggressive  dogs in Thailand roaming around without a clear owner?

 

your problem wont go away.

maybe rent house with a garden and a very high fence ur dog will love u for it.

[Proboscis]

Find a good dog trainer who can train your dog to defend himself (and you!). I did it with my dog who is under 20KG and she was able recently to fight off two grown men dog thieves. It is not about making your dog vicious - in fact, far from that. It is about training your dog to act appropriately according to the situation and to stand up for himself.

 

Another factor is that you have just one dog. And with a lone dog, this means that it never gets to "play fight." Play fighting is something that male and female dogs do all the time until they get quite old - there is sometimes a bit of showing teeth and nipping but it is not serious but the important thing is that they get to exercise their muscles and reflexes and learn how to fight off an aggressor in a real life situation. So you might want to consider getting a second dog to keep your other dog company and give it a playmate and keep it ready to defend itself. Best to start with a puppy so that the older dog will accept it immediately.

[The Deerhunter]

17 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

She is still only a pup 1.1/2 to 2 years she may well change.  

All puppies are naturally submissive but some dogs remain submissive for life.  It is in their line of breeding.  Do a Teddy Roosevelt.  "Talk softly but carry a big (walking) stick."  Dogs are territorial, particularly feral dogs.  Scan ahead and avoid places with loose local dogs.  They will usually see your dog as an intruder and a competitor to their food supply.