Retirement extension - inadequate funds -overstay?

[phetchy]

A "what if" scenario, but a distinct possibility.  An elderly, infirm and frequently confused friend of mine has been living in LoS for the past 15 years or so on a retirement extension without any major problems that can't be overcome with a bit of helping the process along.  As he cannot complete the progress himself, he's previously relied on various agents acquainted with the system to obtain his retirement extension to help him out when his bank account was a bit low.  With yet another crackdown on improper visa procedure looming due to the appointment of the new Immigration supremo, "what if" my friend leaves it until there are less than the required 3 months for the required money to be on deposit in the bank prior to renewal, or he can't raise it and he can't find an agent willing to help him out as before due to a possible crackdown?  If the law is strictly applied, he will be unable to renew his extension and come the due date, will become an overstayer.  If he then voluntarily goes to immigration and pays his fine, can he then apply for an extension (assuming he can get the funds), or will he have to start the whole Non-Immigrant "o"/retirement visa process all over again, or will he have to leave the country?  If that happens, due to his age and health, he won't be back.

 

So the worst case scenario for him is not enough money in the bank with less than 3 months before his renewal application and agents unable to help with the law being strictly enforced regarding overstayers.  One important issue is the timing of the "3 months money in the bank" requirement.  If the 3 months starts prior to the date his application is being made (usually a month or so before the extension runs out?), he will struggle to get it on deposit in time, or is it from the actual date of expiry of his extension?  In which case he might have enough time to raise the money and get it in the bank. 

 

Any helpful tips would be much appreciated.

       

[CharlieH]

Whats his monthly income ? Whats the situation with that ?

[lopburi3]

He can apply up to the last day - there is no need to apply 30 days early.

[phetchy]

His monthly income goes some way to helping, but with his Thai bank balance, the pensions/savings combination is still well short of the 800,000 or equivalent.  Also the time he'll take getting consular proof of pension income will likely take him past the 3 months deadline.

[FritsSikkink]

He could have a problem due to the latest news:

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1061128-no-visa-lapsed-visa-means-deportation-within-a-month-prawit/?tab=comments#comment-13438554

[phetchy]

56 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

He could have a problem due to the latest news:

Thanks for the info - just what prompted me to ask  the "what if".  I wholeheartedly agree with the "rules are rules" sentiment -"do the crime, serve the time" and all that.  Many on death row around the world are probably regretting ignoring such an axiom.

 

Back to my mate in question, although living alone and having only a few friends to rely on to get him through the day to day essentials like food shopping, let alone bureaucracy at it's Thai best and being basically housebound seemingly won't get him a bit of sympathy if he overstays his retirement extension.  The posts so far have suggested possible steps to prevent what might be inevitable, but has anyone any idea from hearsay or experience what the authorities would actually do to make a chronically ill, unsupported, 90 year old UK citizen get on a plane to Heathrow without a clue of what awaits him at the other end?   

 

I'm exploring all avenues to avoid such a possibility, but it's if the worst comes to the worst that I need to try and anticipate.  Many thanks. 

[BWPattaya]

If he uses the income/combo method his money doesn’t have to be seasoned in the bank for three months . Please correct me if I am wrong. 

[giddyup]

10 minutes ago, phetchy said:

   The posts so far have suggested possible steps to prevent what might be inevitable, but has anyone any idea from hearsay or experience what the authorities would actually do to make a chronically ill, unsupported, 90 year old UK citizen get on a plane to Heathrow without a clue of what awaits him at the other end? 

 

Unfortunately I can see him being placed in some government run aged facility/nursing home, which would be a very sad situation indeed.

[ignis]

10 minutes ago, phetchy said:

Thanks for the info - just what prompted me to ask  the "what if".  I wholeheartedly agree with the "rules are rules" sentiment -"do the crime, serve the time" and all that.  Many on death row around the world are probably regretting ignoring such an axiom.

 

Back to my mate in question, although living alone and having only a few friends to rely on to get him through the day to day essentials like food shopping, let alone bureaucracy at it's Thai best and being basically housebound seemingly won't get him a bit of sympathy if he overstays his retirement extension.  The posts so far have suggested possible steps to prevent what might be inevitable, but has anyone any idea from hearsay or experience what the authorities would actually do to make a chronically ill, unsupported, 90 year old UK citizen get on a plane to Heathrow without a clue of what awaits him at the other end?   

 

I'm exploring all avenues to avoid such a possibility, but it's if the worst comes to the worst that I need to try and anticipate.  Many thanks. 

Maybe ask the same question here  ?   http://heathrowtravelcare.co.uk/what-we-do/returning-to-the-uk-from-abroad/

 

 

[colinneil]

12 minutes ago, phetchy said:

  The posts so far have suggested possible steps to prevent what might be inevitable, but has anyone any idea from hearsay or experience what the authorities would actually do to make a chronically ill, unsupported, 90 year old UK citizen get on a plane to Heathrow without a clue of what awaits him at the other end?   

 

I'm exploring all avenues to avoid such a possibility, but it's if the worst comes to the worst that I need to try and anticipate.  Many thanks. 

1

Immigration do not care, chronically ill.... So what thats what they will say.

They threatened to deport me because of my overstay, due to me being in a coma, and i am also paraplegic.

My wife was told pay the fine now or he will be deported, he broke the law, being in a coma is no excuse.

Now after seeing the latest from the British embassy that after december no more income letters, i feel for him, i really do.

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, BWPattaya said:

If he uses the income/combo method his money doesn’t have to be seasoned in the bank for three months . Please correct me if I am wrong. 

Many offices will require seasoning regardless - there is nothing that says this is not required so not a safe bet.  But original post indicated seasoning would be available before current extension expires and that is all that is required.

[wgdanson]

9 minutes ago, BWPattaya said:

If he uses the income/combo method his money doesn’t have to be seasoned in the bank for three months . Please correct me if I am wrong. 

I cannot see how this combo method will be able to work following the announcement by the British Embassy that income letters will no longer be issued as of 1 Jan 2019. We shall have to show a monthly transfer of Bht 65,000 into a Thai bank or have the 800k in for 3 months. By the letter of the law, no, you did not have to season the 'balance' of your income, as verified by the BE, and 800k, but most Immigration Offices wanted to see that. Now how will it work, no income letter, 65k per month into Bkk Bank......?

[wgdanson]

4 hours ago, phetchy said:

His monthly income goes some way to helping, but with his Thai bank balance, the pensions/savings combination is still well short of the 800,000 or equivalent.  Also the time he'll take getting consular proof of pension income will likely take him past the 3 months deadline.

And that stops on 1st Jan 2019.

[PETERTHEEATER]

10 minutes ago, colinneil said:

Immigration do not care, chronically ill.... So what thats what they will say.

They threatened to deport me because of my overstay, due to me being in a coma, and i am also paraplegic.

My wife was told pay the fine now or he will be deported, he broke the law, being in a coma is no excuse.

Now after seeing the latest from the British embassy that after december no more income letters, i feel for him, i really do.

Colin, you said:

Now after seeing the latest from the British embassy that after december no more income letters,........

 

Can you verify this? I have looked at the British Consular website and letters are still available.

 

[colinneil]

1 minute ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

Colin, you said:

Now after seeing the latest from the British embassy that after december no more income letters,........

 

Can you verify this? I have looked at the British Consular website and letters are still available.

 

I have seen the thread on here, only 15 minutes ago.

[lopburi3]

Unknown at this time is if showing transfer into Thai account must be in your name only when using income method.

 

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

And that stops on 1st Jan 2019.

That depends upon his nationality and is just little off topic.

[phetchy]

Thanks to all who have replied - plenty of food for thought.  Unfortunately even though my old mate is as far removed from a gangster, money launderer, drug dealer, fraudster etc. as you can get, the bar seems be being set at the lowest level in order to catch the real villains at the expense of a few unfortunates who may well be expelled from the country due to their age and lack of cognisance of the consequences.  Ignorance of the law is a universal non-starter! 

[Ban Phe Dezza]

1 hour ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

Colin, you said:

Now after seeing the latest from the British embassy that after december no more income letters,........

 

Can you verify this? I have looked at the British Consular website and letters are still available.

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1061149-british-embassy-bangkok-to-stop-certification-of-income-letters/

 

[Just1Voice]

I'm an American on Retirement Extension, and in the past 10 years, I have never had to show money in the bank.  A verification of income from the Consulate, with attached letters from both Social Security and VA Disability, showing my monthly income (which is well above the minimum required) is all I have ever needed.  

[gamini]

7 hours ago, phetchy said:

His monthly income goes some way to helping, but with his Thai bank balance, the pensions/savings combination is still well short of the 800,000 or equivalent.  Also the time he'll take getting consular proof of pension income will likely take him past the 3 months deadline.

Get a doctor to give him a medical certificate saying he is unfit to go .to to his retirement visa.

Get someone to take his passport certificate to the immigration Department and they should give him three months extension. 

3 hours ago, ignis said:

Maybe ask the same question here  ?   http://heathrowtravelcare.co.uk/what-we-do/returning-to-the-uk-from-abroad/

 

 

Just take him to a doctor and get a certificate to say that he is unfit to go to immigration.

Take the certificate and his passport to the immigration Department and they should give him  another three months. You did not say what his age is, if he is old it should not be a problem.

A hospital would be best, or a reputable private hospital. But I don't think they would accept one from the clinic.

[Ulic]

If he is a friend and you trust him you trust him you could always lend him the money for the needed seasoning period. Not sure if it is an option for you but it would be an option. 

[natway09]

So he has been technically breaking the law by "borrowing top up money"

Tell him to go home, arrange the money & on his return (if indeed he wishes to come back ) leave it in an account untouched. Sounds like he will  need care soon anyway so maybe for the best

[Media1]

3 hours ago, colinneil said:

Immigration do not care, chronically ill.... So what thats what they will say.

They threatened to deport me because of my overstay, due to me being in a coma, and i am also paraplegic.

My wife was told pay the fine now or he will be deported, he broke the law, being in a coma is no excuse.

Now after seeing the latest from the British embassy that after december no more income letters, i feel for him, i really do.

What a disgrace and that's the brain of ?

[rwill]

I think only time will tell about the announced crackdown and it's affect on agents providing visa extensions without you having to put up funds.

 

Seems lots of grand proclamations are made here and often quickly swept under the rug.

[Formaleins]

I believe that the individual immigration office, or at least the head of that office can give some leeway regarding the "seasoning" time required, I have not heard of anywhere actually showing leniency, nor have I heard of anyone asking for it. It might be worth making an appointment ahead of time and seeing if they may be willing to give him a break, you never know. Sometimes if you go a bit cap in hand and do not spring things on them as if you expect it, andmake sure they know how much of a favour they are doing you, you may just get some help.

[Suradit69]

4 hours ago, colinneil said:

They threatened to deport me because of my overstay, due to me being in a coma, and i am also paraplegic.

Sorry for your situation, but threatening and doing are two different things. Presumably you weren't deported and they gave you a way to avoid deportation ... whether or not it fit your sense of fairness.

 

Also assume no one threatened to deport you while you were actually in a coma. If you were in hospital at the time, at least some hospitals have a liaison office that would contact immigrations and negotiate an extension base on inability to travel if your wife asked for assistance.

 

 

[Lancelot01]

6 hours ago, wgdanson said:

And that stops on 1st Jan 2019.

I've just looked at the Embassy website and it seems they will not issue such letters after 12 December 2018.

[colinneil]

1 hour ago, Suradit69 said:

Sorry for your situation, but threatening and doing are two different things. Presumably you weren't deported and they gave you a way to avoid deportation ... whether or not it fit your sense of fairness.

 

Also assume no one threatened to deport you while you were actually in a coma. If you were in hospital at the time, at least some hospitals have a liaison office that would contact immigrations and negotiate an extension base on inability to travel if your wife asked for assistance.

 

 

Hospital staff were involved, immigration were not interested.

[GinBoy2]

Just musing here.

But if he's that old, wouldn't going back to the UK be a good idea?

If he doesn't have the money for visa, I'll make the leap that he doesn't have health insurance.

I wouldn't want to be old and infirm in Thailand. Now I'm not British, but I've read enough to know that at least he'd get free health care and somewhere to live in relative safety