"Easy Ride" for pensioners in Thailand now over, says Pattaya Radio

[jimn]

Lots of speculation on this and the other thread. We all need to wait and see what the fallout is from this and act accordingly.

[bkk6060]

11 minutes ago, Spidey said:

They are only concerned about visa agents who routinely seed accounts on their clients behalf. Lots of other reasons people use an agent when dealing with IO. I even know someone who gets an agent to do his 90 day reporting.

You are right.

But the big money is in the "seeding", not the 90 day.

Like I said, I think people would be shocked how many do not meet the qualifications and need the seeding.

1000's. Many more then one could imagine.

[wgdanson]

1 minute ago, notamember said:

so what is sending copes of bank statements, if not to prove income?

if not needed as you claim them why send at all

just tell them what you earn and pay for the letter 

(thats what you claimed before is done, but is not)

 

OK, point taken. Yes on bank statements it says my NI number and DWP. But I don't think the Consulate check every one of them, not when they send your letter back within a week, or DID.

[Kerryd]

15 pages and 217 posts and I've seen one where someone says they've actually tried to contact their Embassy about this.

 

Seriously - it is reported that your Embassy has announced a change and you all rush to ThaiVisa to ask questions, instead of your Embassy (or elected officials back home) ?

(Email addresses and contact info for the UK Embassy and UK government included at the bottom.)
 

The issue is, Thai Immigration has apparently told the Embassies that they will hold them legally liable for the Income Letters that they are notarizing. That means if all you <deleted> that are being less than truthful with your statements are found out, Thailand will basically be able to sue the respective Embassies for lying (or providing false documentation).

The UK Embassy has apparently stated that they do not have the ability to actually verify that what you tell them is true (about your pension income) so rather than open themselves up to a liability issue, they will stop issuing the Income Letters (after 12 Dec). And no, not everyone is getting all their pension income from a single, government source.
 

Note that the UK Embassy announcement notes that after 12 December you will have to verify your incoming using Thai bank statements. As you can imagine, what that probably means is that in order to use "pension income" for your Visa/Extension of Stay, you will have to show that you have the required amount(s) being deposited into a Thai Bank account on a regular basis (and probably also require other documentation like statements from your pension provider).
 

Meanwhile, it is up to you (UK citizens) to get a hold of your Embassy and let them know that you are upset about this. Instead of doing nothing and making banal statements about how they don't care about their citizens.

 

Send emails to your Member of Parliament as well. Better yet, find the Foreign Affairs Minister (or whatever you call it) and send your emails to that person. If you really think your Embassy/Ambassador doesn't give a crap about you, tell the FO and your MP. If they suddenly get a lot of negative traffic about how an Embassy/Ambassador is performing, they'd pretty much have to act or risk it becoming a PR issue that could affect the next election (and we all know how much every politician loves getting re-elected).

 

Funny fact. One email/letter they may dismiss. 5 about the same subject may make them take notice. 100 on the same subject will make them sit up, take notice and start making inquiries.

Why ? Because they use a formula to determine how many voters each letter/email represents. Years ago (before email), it was determined that a single letter was equal to maybe the opinion of 1,000 voters who all thought the same way but couldn't be bothered to write letters themselves.

Depending on the level of government and the topic, a single letter/email today could be considered the equivalent of maybe 5,000 or more opinions. If they suddenly got 100 emails about the same issue in a very short time, it would be the equivalent of maybe 500,000 people who have the same issue (including their friends and families, etc).

 

That is how special interest groups are often able to push their agendas to the forefront, even when it seems the majority opinion is against them. They are able to mobilize their supporters and get them to send in letters/emails (often even using the same generic "form" letter) and make it look like they have a lot more support than is actually the case.

 

(Like the old saying goes - the squeaky wheel gets the grease.)

Oh right - much easier to just sound off on ThaiVisa which will accomplish absolutely nothing. Hey - not my problem. I foresee lots of cheap accommodations up for sale come the new year.

 

UK Embassy in Thailand Email address: [email protected]
Foreign-Commonwealth Office contact: [email protected]
The UK Government contact page: https://www.gov.uk/contact/govuk

 

[superal]

I guess there could be a lot of new marriages about to happen with long term unmarried couples tying the knot so as to show 400k instead of double 800k .

 As for the other UK state pensioners not all is lost as a non o multi entry visa is easily obtained without any proof of income , just got  to do the 90 day border crossing .

[wgdanson]

Just now, Kerryd said:

15 pages and 217 posts and I've seen one where someone says they've actually tried to contact their Embassy about this.

I have said several times that I called the Consulate in Bangkok three times yesterday, and I would like to think that it was at my suggestion they posted the big letter on TV this morning, and I also suggested they send out emails to everyone who applied for a letter last year informing them. Let's face it, not EVERYONE logs onto Thai Visa.

[tifino]

 

so, it's really just a translation/notarisation of that translation service...

[notamember]

3 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

OK, point taken. Yes on bank statements it says my NI number and DWP. But I don't think the Consulate check every one of them, not when they send your letter back within a week, or DID.

but they do, or how would they reach a conclusion on income and know what to write on your letter?

[notamember]

Just now, wgdanson said:

You can still be working in UK or wherever, and still get a retirement extension in Thailand.

yes but unlikely you would be here for 90 consecutive days and he did say reporting (plural or more than one)

[The manic]

10 minutes ago, notamember said:

why pay an agent unless they are as ugly as your avatar and do not want to leave the house

People in their 60s and 70s might have better things to do than waste their time queuing. I use agents whereever I can in many different countries.

[Jingthing]

21 minutes ago, rocketdave said:

Perhaps I'm being a bit dense here, I'm a British pensioner getting a small government old age pension, it's always paid every four weeks into the bank so my bank book shows regular four weekly payments isn't that good enough?

P.S. Have not had much faith in the British Embassy for years.

It is not good enough as immigration requires income letters and your embassy has announced they plan to stop issuing such letters. 

[wgdanson]

4 minutes ago, notamember said:

but they do, or how would they reach a conclusion on income and know what to write on your letter?

The application form clearly states in RED, that they will only use the figures the applicant has put on that form and will not change it.

[notamember]

9 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

You are right.

But the big money is in the "seeding", not the 90 day.

Like I said, I think people would be shocked how many do not meet the qualifications and need the seeding.

1000's. Many more then one could imagine.

complete strangers loaning complete strangers 800,000 baht without any security

how much would those who have  800, 000 want in return for doing that?

[mikecha]

If you do right then all is ok  if u  can not do the right thing then leave

there country there rules 

[The manic]

24 minutes ago, Spidey said:

They are only concerned about visa agents who routinely seed accounts on their clients behalf. Lots of other reasons people use an agent when dealing with IO. I even know someone who gets an agent to do his 90 day reporting.

Do you have a link to this or is it your own logical conclusion. I agree its nothing to do with 90 day reporting.

[dbrenn]

Anyone who thinks that living in the UK is cheaper then living in Thailand is misinformed. There are maybe a few more benefits on top of the pension over there, and the NHS, but the cost of living is still much higher. 

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Thailand&amp;country2=United+Kingdom&amp;city1=Bangkok&amp;city2=London&amp;tracking=getDispatchComparison

 

[Spidey]

Just now, notamember said:

complete strangers loaning complete strangers 800,000 baht without any security

how much would those who have  800, 000 want in return for doing that?

You don't have access to the money. Agents in Pattaya charge i.r.o. 20k baht.

[notamember]

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Your brain. I was pointing out that visa agents do other things besides seeding accounts, in reply to someone who held the belief that, having seen visa agents with handfuls of passports in Jontien Immigration, there couldn't be a crackdown on visa agents who seed bank accounts.

 

Now do you see what's out of place?

try again, i missed your point

you said that agents are being turned away as Tommy said so now they are not ?

cos some geezer on here said he saw passports being moved around in immigration that must belong to agents?

Passports in Immigration? whatever next?

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by notamember

[wgdanson]

2 minutes ago, notamember said:

complete strangers loaning complete strangers 800,000 baht without any security

how much would those who have  800, 000 want in return for doing that?

The 'complete stranger' never sees any of the 800k. All done with smoke and mirrors and brown envelopes.

[SuperTed]

There are clearly a group of expats on retirement visas, receiving a pension, who can't put together 800,000 baht in a bank account. Visa agency is such a large business here, it is filling a demand. If visa agencies go under, either family and friends kick in, or theses struggling pensioners leave at the next visa cycle. These are the Poor Pensioners.

 

Then there is another group who have the funds to afford their lifestyle here, but need to show a proof of income letter, and are worried it will no longer be provided by their Embassy. These are the Posh Pensioners.

 

Here is the thing - when a government from one country requires something, and another country refuses to provide it, that is a diplomatic issue. Diplomats are bureaucrats, but they report to politicians.

 

It is in the interest of Pensioners, both Poor and Posh, to organize a letter writing campaign re proof of income letters, making sure the Embassy continues to issue them. The more signatories the better. This is of course assuming that Embassy comes out and says no more proof of income letters.

 

And for those Pensioners who don't want to reveal to their government where in the world they are - these are the Pikey Pensioners - please just get the <deleted> out of our party. 

[notamember]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

You don't have access to the money. Agents in Pattaya charge i.r.o. 20k baht.

but its in your bankbook if they do it right

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

26 minutes ago, rocketdave said:

Perhaps I'm being a bit dense here, I'm a British pensioner getting a small government old age pension, it's always paid every four weeks into the bank so my bank book shows regular four weekly payments isn't that good enough?

P.S. Have not had much faith in the British Embassy for years.

 

The issue is, the obligatory proof of income that Thai Immigration has demanded for years has been the Embassy income letters.  They may also at times have asked for backup documents like bank books or statements or so. But they always required the Embassy income letters when monthly income was the basis for the extension application.

 

So once the British Embassy stops issuing those letters for its expats here, the question becomes, what if anything will Thai Immigration do regarding British expat applications. And that, right now, is an unknown.

 

[notamember]

1 minute ago, wgdanson said:

The 'complete stranger' never sees any of the 800k. All done with smoke and mirrors and brown envelopes.

no its not, just more speculation

you people are so naive

[wgdanson]

2 minutes ago, SuperTed said:

This is of course assuming that Embassy comes out and says no more proof of income letters

They have done.

[wwest5829]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Thai immigration has ALWAYS required embassy income letters for income based applications. Thai immigration has made no announcement that they will change that as yet. Let's deal with FACTS, rather than assumptions and wishes, shall we?

So, the fact that the British Embassy will not issue these letters and you say Thai Immigration has always required and that there is no announced change from Immigration, where does that,leave the Brits using this method in the past?

[bkk6060]

8 minutes ago, notamember said:

complete strangers loaning complete strangers 800,000 baht without any security

how much would those who have  800, 000 want in return for doing that?

You are clueless how the system works.

The agents put the money into an account under the applicants name for maybe a few minutes.

Then, make copies of the documentation and transfer the money out.

It is a scam for sure.  But, has been going on for several years here. 

1000's of people.

Edited October 9, 2018 by bkk6060

[Spidey]

Just now, The manic said:

Do you have a link to this or is it your own logical conclusion. I agree its nothing to do with 90 day reporting.

I've posted the answer to this several times in this thread. Mostly to "notamember" who doesn't seem able to grasp anything anyone says.

 

I agree it has nothing to do with 90 day reporting, who said it did?

[wgdanson]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The issue is, the obligatory proof of income that Thai Immigration has demanded for years has been the Embassy income letters.  They may also at times have asked for backup documents like bank books or statements or so. But they always required the Embassy income letters when monthly income was the basis for the extension application.

 

So once the British Embassy stops issuing those letters for its expats here, the question becomes, what if anything will Thai Immigration do regarding British expat applications. And that, right now, is an unknown.

 

Have they not said 65k per month (average) into a Thai Bank account with proof, bank statement or book saying FTT, or the usual 800k for 3 months.

[bkk6060]

3 minutes ago, notamember said:

no its not, just more speculation

you people are so naive

Wrong!

They never see anything.

[Caine]

4 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Utter pile of rot. Yesterday I bumped into a visa agency guy I have known for years. He told me last week things looked tough. Yesterday, everything was back to normal. Has anyone here ever known a crackdown on anything to last more than a week?

I am sure there will be fun and games, and probably payments to deal with the proof of finances issue, but nothing of substance is likely to change.

Dream on.