Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats

[Joe Mcseismic]

3 hours ago, soalbundy said:

So with the Brits and Americans both being disadvantaged the TI may be moved to compromise (they needn't of course but I rather think they will) a sort of 'embassy letter or documents required' this choice for everybody of course. They could stipulate the 400/800k rule but then I think they would allow agents to supply their services, remember, they want it simple. As yet however there has been no reaction from TI, my IO is not even aware of the BE's decision.

Could, would, should.

Won't happen.

Wishful thinking.

[HHTel]

Well the new guy has already arrested/moved several immigration officers for taking 'cash under the table'.  The agents rely on these io's.  If the io falls out of the chain (farang - agent - bank employee - immigration - agent - farang) then the 'agents' are going to have a problem.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, HHTel said:

Well the new guy has already arrested/moved several immigration officers for taking 'cash under the table'.  The agents rely on these io's.  If the io falls out of the chain (farang - agent - bank employee - immigration - agent - farang) then the 'agents' are going to have a problem.

weren't these rather primitive cases of direct farang / official without any foot print cover as opposed to the sophisticated agent set up which would be difficult to uncover ?

[HHTel]

The 'sophisticated agent' needs co-operation from some-one in the bank and at least 2 immigration officers.  The latter are beginning to 'run scared' so I think it's going to get more difficult.

 

Regarding the movement of corrupt officials, at least one quoted by 'Big Joke' was removed as he'd signed off a bank statement with 'in/out' money the same day.  He remarked that it was reasonable to assume the officer was getting a cut and he was moved to an Inactive post.

 

 

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, HHTel said:

The 'sophisticated agent' needs co-operation from some-one in the bank and at least 2 immigration officers.  The latter are beginning to 'run scared' so I think it's going to get more difficult.

 

Regarding the movement of corrupt officials, at least one quoted by 'Big Joke' was removed as he'd signed off a bank statement with 'in/out' money the same day.  He remarked that it was reasonable to assume the officer was getting a cut and he was moved to an Inactive post.

 

 

I wonder what an inactive post is, you are still in the force but don't get a salary, you don't come to the office but get a basic salary, you look after a useless archive stuffed with docs that nobody wants ? ?

He could start up his own agency, he knows all the dodges.

[sambum]

16 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I wonder what an inactive post is, you are still in the force but don't get a salary, you don't come to the office but get a basic salary, you look after a useless archive stuffed with docs that nobody wants ? ?

He could start up his own agency, he knows all the dodges.

I think the latter rather than the former! And it must be a heck of a BIG office! As has been questioned previously - "Don't any Police Officers ever get the sack in Thailand?" The answer was:- "Very rarely, as they all have to buy their positions!"

 

And your final point is very valid!

Edited October 26, 2018 by sambum

[soalbundy]

57 minutes ago, HHTel said:

The 'sophisticated agent' needs co-operation from some-one in the bank and at least 2 immigration officers.  The latter are beginning to 'run scared' so I think it's going to get more difficult.

 

Regarding the movement of corrupt officials, at least one quoted by 'Big Joke' was removed as he'd signed off a bank statement with 'in/out' money the same day.  He remarked that it was reasonable to assume the officer was getting a cut and he was moved to an Inactive post.

 

 

Lol, in/out money, he was thinking about the 'in and out' shop he was going to when he got his cut.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I've had 23,000 quoted

I wouldn't trust em unless big joke has OK'd them and if he has the Thai  prime minister should do something.

The Thai  prime minister is the one you lot should be complaining to.

[evadgib]

7 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I wouldn't trust em unless big joke has OK'd them and if he has the Thai  prime minister should do something.

The Thai  prime minister is the one you lot should be complaining to.

We don't yet know who'll hold that position come February.

Edited October 26, 2018 by evadgib

[Sheryl]

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Unfortunately my extension is not due until the 23rd of August.

There are unconfirmed reports that TI will allow early extension. This is from the US website so not clear if limited to Americans but hardly fair for it to be, I would think they would extend it to all.  Some people have said that means up to 3 months early but I have yet to see substantiation of that. if true then you are OK for this year, could renew in  June using letter obtained in Decemeber.

 

Meanwhile in case not - start documenting your income as best you can. If it is in fact less than the required amount (65K or 40K a month if married) calculate the difference and start looking  for some way to have that amount in a bank account for 3 months prior. (I am assuming combo method will continue to be allowed).

[Kwasaki]

10 minutes ago, evadgib said:

We don't yet know who'll hold that position come February.

Yeah fair call, I feel there's something not right here, never mine BE letter.

As for the guy in charge immigration has some Farangie upset him.

I will not speculate on what. ????

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

There are unconfirmed reports that TI will allow early extension. This is from the US website so not clear if limited to Americans but hardly fair for it to be, I would think they would extend it to all.  Some people have said that means up to 3 months early but I have yet to see substantiation of that. if true then you are OK for this year, could renew in  June using letter obtained in Decemeber.

 

Meanwhile in case not - start documenting your income as best you can. If it is in fact less than the required amount (65K or 40K a month if married) calculate the difference and start looking  for some way to have that amount in a bank account for 3 months prior. (I am assuming combo method will continue to be allowed).

'documenting your income', therein lies the rub, what is acceptable as documentation ? bank statements pulled from internet banking ? ATM transfers to a Thai account? combined of course with pension statements. At the moment I don't need this as I use the German embassy letter and they have told me they have no plans to stop this but who knows what the TI's plans for the future are. I'm good for a further year but we all need clarity for the future, official clarity, TI rules. Maybe I shall not only have to get documents together but have to have them translated as well, that is the beauty of the embassy letter for none-English pensions and statements, the embassy can read them and, in my case at least, verify them.

[soalbundy]

32 minutes ago, evadgib said:

We don't yet know who'll hold that position come February.

 I think we do, no matter which party wins Prayut/army is the power behind the PM's office

[KhunFred]

A  prelude to requiring absurd amounts of money to live here, no doubt. Where there's a whiff of money, a Thai will be there finding ways to get their hands into your pockets. Nothing new.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

A  prelude to requiring absurd amounts of money to live here, no doubt. Where there's a whiff of money, a Thai will be there finding ways to get their hands into your pockets. Nothing new.

Let's not jump the gun, we have enough problems as it is

[Sheryl]

24 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

'documenting your income', therein lies the rub, what is acceptable as documentation ? bank statements pulled from internet banking ? ATM transfers to a Thai account? combined of course with pension statements. At the moment I don't need this as I use the German embassy letter and they have told me they have no plans to stop this but who knows what the TI's plans for the future are. I'm good for a further year but we all need clarity for the future, official clarity, TI rules. Maybe I shall not only have to get documents together but have to have them translated as well, that is the beauty of the embassy letter for none-English pensions and statements, the embassy can read them and, in my case at least, verify them.

We do not know yet what documentation will be required. There has been mention of seeing transfer of money into a Thai bank account but this is not at this point substantiated. I would say just start holding into ATM transfers and the like in case, until TI provides clarification.

 

If the German Embassy procedure involves an actual verification of income it is possible  (possible, not sure) that TI will continue to accept their letter.  The problem for US an UK  was that they are unable to do this. I suspect Australia will be in the same situation as their procedure is same as US was. But if German Embassy can and does actually verify income it might be different for you. Time will tell, but doesn't hurt to be prepared.

 

I think it is safe to assume TI will not accept anything that is in German language, the IOs need to be able to read what you submit.

[jimn]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

I wouldn't trust em unless big joke has OK'd them and if he has the Thai  prime minister should do something.

The Thai  prime minister is the one you lot should be complaining to.

I know for a fact I know 3 people who have paid 12,900 to an agent in Pattaya for a retirement extension. All the decision by the UK and US embassy's (with more embassy's to follow Imight add) will do is drive more people down this illegal route.

Edited October 26, 2018 by jimn

[Jingthing]

25 minutes ago, jimn said:

I know for a fact I know 3 people who have paid 12,900 to an agent in Pattaya for a retirement extension. All the decision by the UK and US embassy's (with more embassy's to follow Imight add) will do is drive more people down this illegal route.

Sure many people use them. But how do you know when there is going to be a crackdown? Many of us prefer to play the game the legal way. But it gets harder to even understand what the legal way is especially at times like these. Yes, of course the 800K baht in the bank method is clear. But how to prove income without letters … not so much.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Jingthing

[billd766]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

There are unconfirmed reports that TI will allow early extension. This is from the US website so not clear if limited to Americans but hardly fair for it to be, I would think they would extend it to all.  Some people have said that means up to 3 months early but I have yet to see substantiation of that. if true then you are OK for this year, could renew in  June using letter obtained in Decemeber.

 

Meanwhile in case not - start documenting your income as best you can. If it is in fact less than the required amount (65K or 40K a month if married) calculate the difference and start looking  for some way to have that amount in a bank account for 3 months prior. (I am assuming combo method will continue to be allowed).

Thanks Sheryl. I am already working on that and it looks as though I may be 10 to 20,000 baht short of the 65k per month over the 12 month period. Putting that in would not present a big problem but my extension date is 23rd of August  and with the best will in the world, up here in Khampaeng Phet, the IO won't accept it 2 months early.

 

I am also working on changing from a retirement to a marriage extension and I have enough funds to do that comfortably.

 

Some posters have mentioned using an agent to help, but at this point I don't know of any up here as I have never had to use one.

[jimn]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Sure many people use them. But how do you know when there is going to be a crackdown? Many of us prefer to play the game the legal way. But it gets harder to even understand what the legal way is especially at times like these. Yes, of course the 800K baht in the bank method is clear. But how to prove income without letters … not so much.

I to am 100% legal. Problem is that the removal of the letter/stat dec will limit the options for many.

[cleopatra2]

No change in law is required. Police order 327/255 contains provisions for dealing with the embassy letter issue. see paragraph 5

 

5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Sure many people use them [agents]

But how do you know when there is going to be a crackdown?

Maybe now... 

Rumour in the street tonight in Pattaya is that Pattaya Immigration head officer has been dismissed for "faults", and some people reported that illegal services (such as the free Certificate of Residence that you had to pay) have been suspended since yesterday...

We probably will have to wait next week to know more about all that.

[soalbundy]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Sure many people use them. But how do you know when there is going to be a crackdown? Many of us prefer to play the game the legal way. But it gets harder to even understand what the legal way is especially at times like these. Yes, of course the 800K baht in the bank method is clear. But how to prove income without letters … not so much.

and even with letters that is not verification in the true sense of the word, without trust there is no verification. You can show that water boils at 100 degrees C but that isn't verification that it will do so in 10 minuets time.

[Kwasaki]

14 hours ago, jimn said:

I know for a fact I know 3 people who have paid 12,900 to an agent in Pattaya for a retirement extension. All the decision by the UK and US embassy's (with more embassy's to follow I might add) will do is drive more people down this illegal route.

If they want to stay OK but they have to be prepared under the present shake up of income proof at the next extension if they make it.

 

To early to see what happens yet IMO, I have been settled and retired here a good while and glad I hung on to my marriage extension amount.

I would borrow the money now if I had been doing the BE letter route. 

[jimn]

20 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

If they want to stay OK but they have to be prepared under the present shake up of income proof at the next extension if they make it.

 

To early to see what happens yet IMO, I have been settled and retired here a good while and glad I hung on to my marriage extension amount.

I would borrow the money now if I had been doing the BE letter route. 

The earliest the income method will become a true issue is June/July next year. Anyone who gets their income letter before 31st December will be able to use for 6 months, if TI carry on with their current acceptance of up to 6 months old. So there are now 7 months for the current impass to be sorted. Every post on every thread is just speculation nothing more. Including mine I might add.

[Esso49]

9 minutes ago, jimn said:

The earliest the income method will become a true issue is June/July next year. Anyone who gets their income letter before 31st December will be able to use for 6 months, if TI carry on with their current acceptance of up to 6 months old. So there are now 7 months for the current impass to be sorted. Every post on every thread is just speculation nothing more. Including mine I might add.

The point is where does it say they will accept them up to six months old ? Ubonjoe, can you advise where it states this please ?   If they don't then it will be fun and games in January 2019 perhaps

Edited October 27, 2018 by Esso49

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, jimn said:

The earliest the income method will become a true issue is June/July next year. Anyone who gets their income letter before 31st December will be able to use for 6 months

My concern now is for genuine people who have been here for years and if there immigration office refuses there applications because of this change it is not fair or just, immigration should grandfather them, surely from records they know perfectly well who they are.  

[HHTel]

Only last year, the Thai government said this:

 

Quote

THAILAND has called for British pensioners to move to the country to live out their retirement years as part of a post-Brexit charm offensive.

The south-east Asian country is hoping to appeal to elderly Britons who want a good deal for their retirement plans and – now that the UK is due to leave the European Union – the country is looking to build ties with Britain.

The President of Thailand Elite, a government-owned agency tasked with running the country's "exclusive" visa scheme, said that Britain's divorce from the EU was a chance to strengthen ties between the two countries.

Pruet Boobphakam said: "I think that Brexit will give us an opportunity to even open more, or to introduce Thailand even on a broader scale... you can live in Thailand for up to 20 years if you'd like to, therefore it would be a good opportunity for both countries, in terms of UK people and the Thai people."

Source: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/788863/Brexit-UK-Thailand-pensioners-retirement

Edited October 27, 2018 by HHTel
Correction

[soalbundy]

Just now, HHTel said:

Only last year, the Thai government was say this:

 

Source: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/788863/Brexit-UK-Thailand-pensioners-retirement

5555555555555555555555

[dick dasterdly]

14 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Maybe now... 

Rumour in the street tonight in Pattaya is that Pattaya Immigration head officer has been dismissed for "faults", and some people reported that illegal services (such as the free Certificate of Residence that you had to pay) have been suspended since yesterday...

We probably will have to wait next week to know more about all that.

"and some people reported that illegal services (such as the free Certificate of Residence that you had to pay) have been suspended since yesterday."

 

That's interesting, as my agent picked up my passport for my 90 day report last Monday and said I needed to renew the certificate of residence.  As I was (rolling my eyes...) and asking her the documentation required - she interrupted to say "500 bht".....  I was annoyed, but couldn't be bothered to argue and so just gave a cynical laugh, and gave her 500 bht....

 

She said she'd return my passport on Wed. - but I'm still waiting....  Although in my case, it's more likely that she's annoyed at my very obvious, cynical attitude at the demand for an extra 500 bht, rather than anything else.

 

I live on Phuket.