6 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

Because most people have a conscience.

a conscience that will ruin our countries? reason should trump peoples conscience.  finally we are finally seeing this in many European countries who are closing up their boarders and turning away the migrants.

1 hour ago, micmichd said:

Rather suicide by arrogance. 

Islam destroyed none of the ASEAN nations as far as I can see. 

Most Germans that permanently yell "Islam doesn't belong  to us" wouldn't even be able to spot a Muslim or a Muslima even if he/she were standing right in front of them. Like all these waitresses in Bangkok-Banglamphu - none of these German right-wingers is aware that a substantial portion of them are Muslima. 

Correct, nor would they know many  Thai women giving them massage / serving drinks etc are Muslim. I always wonder why do many Muslim haters stay in Thailand when Thailand likely has a higher percentage of Muslims than their home countries. Plus of course the armed insurgency in the deep South

15 minutes ago, guest879 said:

a conscience that will ruin our countries?

 

Your rhetorical question and the conclusion it's meant to lead us to are without evidence.

 

Your boogeyman is "mass immigration" and your conclusion is a "ruined country".  Which country (that has a policy of accepting "mass immigration" and has subsequently been ruined) are you referring to?

 

And if you really think this is ruinous on a country-wide scale, why do you suppose that "a broad alliance of associations, labor unions, parties and rights groups" held the rally?  Are they in favor of ruining their own country? 

 

 

Edited October 14, 20187 yr by attrayant

15 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

What is  the other 59%?  If they are in fact the majority, why do they yield power to the minority?

on 15.9.17 germany had general elections cdu/csu 34 %. spd 20.5 % forming a grand coalition 54,5 % as to compare pollster of today 41 %  a loss of 13 %.

 

tody election in bavaria the csu is goin to lose its absolute mayority , pollster today 33 % last 2014 electon 52 %  loss 19 %, spd 10 and 2014  21 %

 

merkels days are numbered as well as that of the spd socialist loosers.

 

bavaria is the second populous state in germany.

 

wbr

roobaa01

4 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

on 15.9.17 germany had general elections cdu/csu 34 %. spd 20.5 % forming a grand coalition 54,5 % as to compare pollster of today 41 %  a loss of 13 %.

 

If that 13% loss gets distributed across the other parties, it's pretty much worthless.  The current party/parties may not hold on to their clear majority, but there will still be a sizable plurality.

 

17 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

If that 13% loss gets distributed across the other parties, it's pretty much worthless.  The current party/parties may not hold on to their clear majority, but there will still be a sizable plurality.

 

imo the stats exclude those people, who deny publicly their party preference coz of repraisals, you might watch such happening today in bavaria.

 

wbr

roobaa01

What a stinky pile of BS. Far right in Chemnitz? Yeah, sure. My old friend lives there and he was updating me in real time. One was killed and 2 more wounded by migrants trying to save a local girl from being raped, after which ordinary folk from local neighborhoods went out to the streets saying they've had enough of this "multiculturalism".  Guess what, my friend was banned by Facebook hours after he posted what's going on adding few photos. Far right, my arse. 

20 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

Do you disagree with the axiom that diversity breeds creativity and quality?  All you need to do is ask any teacher.  A classroom full of kids with diverse backgrounds is a fertile breeding ground for different ideas and creative solutions.  A room full of kids from the same culture, manner and background breeds little more than groupthink and stagnation.  Having been a program manager in a government IT department full of employees from ethically diverse backgrounds, I concur it's true at the adult level as well.

 

This is such a universally accepted precept, I'm surprised you are even challenging it.

All it needs to sink your argument, is 4/5  foreign boys or girls in the classroom not being proficient in the language.

Btw, i'm am all in favour of multi-culturalism, but it should be carefully regulated.

Off topic posts and the replies have been removed. 

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The coherent argument is the coherent success of these nations. 

Multiculturalism can expand the experience and wisdom of a nation opening windows to different ways of thinking and learning to accept people who are different. However this experience must be carefully guarded to insure that those are coming in are able to support themselves and are serious about become good citizens and find a place among their adopted culture which will not cause animosity among the natural citizens. Any lawlessness should be dealt with by deportation.

This has been the essential model in the 20th century. And many countries did a good job of managing immigration and people had pride in multicultural communities.

The 21st century model (for the west anyways) is to throw caution to the wind, don't even check for known enemies and terrorists. Have no expectations for their behavior, and open the state treasury to dump money in their pockets in amounts they could never achieve in their home countries. Then stand by while they rape and pillage their new homeland.

Nowadays multiculturalism works mostly fine without Muslims

 

Disastrous otherwise 

10 hours ago, rooster59 said:

BERLIN (Reuters) - Protestors from across Germany marched through Berlin on Saturday against racism, xenophobia and the far right in one of the country's biggest rallies of recent years.

Reuters has been rather more quite on the weekly Pegida rallies.

 

4 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Multiculturalism can expand the experience and wisdom of a nation opening windows to different ways of thinking and learning to accept people who are different. However this experience must be carefully guarded to insure that those are coming in are able to support themselves and are serious about become good citizens and find a place among their adopted culture which will not cause animosity among the natural citizens. Any lawlessness should be dealt with by deportation.

This has been the essential model in the 20th century. And many countries did a good job of managing immigration and people had pride in multicultural communities.

The 21st century model (for the west anyways) is to throw caution to the wind, don't even check for known enemies and terrorists. Have no expectations for their behavior, and open the state treasury to dump money in their pockets in amounts they could never achieve in their home countries. Then stand by while they rape and pillage their new homeland.

Well, i am much softer than you on multiculturalism, and it would be unfair, imo, to paint all immigrants as rapists or criminals.

That said, given that density of population is much higher in Europe than, say, USA or Canada, one cannot ignore that frictions are unavoidable.

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, i am much softer than you on multiculturalism, and it would be unfair, imo, to paint all immigrants as rapists or criminals.

That said, given that density of population is much higher in Europe than, say, USA or Canada, one cannot ignore that frictions are unavoidable.

Never said they all were rapists. But they are there, and that is totally unacceptable to the natural citizens. Their governments are selling them out.

1 minute ago, canuckamuck said:

Never said they all were rapists. But they are there, and that is totally unacceptable to the natural citizens. Their governments are selling them out.

The fact is that the so called 1st world countries, need the immigrants to do the menial jobs, which the natural citizens don't want to do anymore.

That is the reason, or the excuse if you like, for uncontrolled migration.

For sure our politicians are being, willingly or not, successful in creating divides in the public opinion.

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Off topic,

Did that in 2016 (divorced and went home), came back to look after my son earlier this year.

OMG, you even have a mixed race child too throw in the mix.  

 

Tell me again why you don't want different races and cultures in you homeland that you have decide not to live in.

Yet it's rallies like this that just serve to ignite the right. The EU gets raped, burned, and pillaged by Mohammadan invaders and they are actively implementing Shariah law yet these idiots are marching to protest against the right? The  right is the last line of defense of between whether the country becomes an Islamic ****hole or still maintains some resemblance to an EU country. Sheep walking right into the jaws of Islamic wolves. 

2 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

Yet it's rallies like this that just serve to ignite the right. The EU gets raped, burned, and pillaged by Mohammadan invaders and they are actively implementing Shariah law yet these idiots are marching to protest against the right? The  right is the last line of defense of between whether the country becomes an Islamic ****hole or still maintains some resemblance to an EU country. Sheep walking right into the jaws of Islamic wolves. 

So how many Islamic invaders have enforced Shariah law on your back in your country?

 

 

38 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

All it needs to sink your argument, is 4/5  foreign boys or girls in the classroom not being proficient in the language.

 

Of course a host country's responsibility does not end as soon as immigrants cross the border.  A country that lets immigrant resources waste away is just asking for social unrest.  That's a failure of policy implementation, not an argument against multiculturalism.  See the Reuter's video I posted earlier showing Germany's far right conservative party in favor of educating and integrating immigrants into society.  

 

Make immigrants stake holders in their new home, and they'll take care of it.

4 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

So how many Islamic invaders have enforced Shariah law on your back in your country?

 

 

Honor killings are common practice in Western countries today. 

11 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

OMG, you even have a mixed race child too throw in the mix.  

Tell me again why you don't want different races and cultures in you homeland that you have decide not to live in.

3

I never said anything about different races, it's different cultures that don't mix well.

Edited October 14, 20187 yr by BritManToo

1 minute ago, attrayant said:

 

Of course a host country's responsibility does not end as soon as immigrants cross the border.  A country that lets immigrant resources waste away is just asking for social unrest.  That's a failure of policy implementation, not an argument against multiculturalism.  See the Reuter's video I posted earlier showing Germany's far right conservative party in favor of educating and integrating immigrants into society.  

 

Make immigrants stake holders in their new home, and they'll take care of it.

I understand your point of view, and see nothing wrong with it, but , as they say, easier said than done.

5 minutes ago, attrayant said:

educating and integrating immigrants into society

It will never happen and this is what most people don't understand. The Islamists teach them to not assimilate and to prepare to conquer the land. These are not your ordinary average immigrants anymore. They are a severe threat.

43 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Multiculturalism can expand the experience and wisdom of a nation opening windows to different ways of thinking and learning to accept people who are different. However this experience must be carefully guarded to insure that those are coming in are able to support themselves and are serious about become good citizens and find a place among their adopted culture which will not cause animosity among the natural citizens. Any lawlessness should be dealt with by deportation.

This has been the essential model in the 20th century. And many countries did a good job of managing immigration and people had pride in multicultural communities.

The 21st century model (for the west anyways) is to throw caution to the wind, don't even check for known enemies and terrorists. Have no expectations for their behavior, and open the state treasury to dump money in their pockets in amounts they could never achieve in their home countries. Then stand by while they rape and pillage their new homeland.

You place all the responsibility for not causing animosity on the immigrants. 

 

You ignore that much of the animosity is fabricated, cultivated and spread by rightwing extremists. 

 

But then of course you do.

 

You follow this  with your assertions regarding the '21st century model', a text book example of the kind of hyperbole employed by the rightwing to achieve devision and distrust.  

 

Edited October 14, 20187 yr by Chomper Higgot

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

a text book example of the kind of hyperbole employed by the rightwing to achieve devision and distrust.  

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12088341/Two-teenage-girls-gang-raped-by-four-Syrian-nationals-in-southern-Germany.html

 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/01/video-muslim-in-germany-brags-about-brutally-gang-raping-virgin/

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3632965/Refugee-camp-Dusseldorf-burned-migrants-furious-not-received-wake-Ramadan-breakfast.html

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3960366/Migrants-burned-refugee-centre-causing-10-million-damage-wasn-t-Nutella-Gummibears-chocolate-German-Red-Cross-worker-reveals.html

 

Yep, it's all an evil plot by the right wing to sow division. Nothing to do with the real facts on the ground that the Left living in rainbow fairy land can't seem to see. 

2 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12088341/Two-teenage-girls-gang-raped-by-four-Syrian-nationals-in-southern-Germany.html

 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/01/video-muslim-in-germany-brags-about-brutally-gang-raping-virgin/

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3632965/Refugee-camp-Dusseldorf-burned-migrants-furious-not-received-wake-Ramadan-breakfast.html

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3960366/Migrants-burned-refugee-centre-causing-10-million-damage-wasn-t-Nutella-Gummibears-chocolate-German-Red-Cross-worker-reveals.html

 

Yep, it's all an evil plot by the right wing to sow division. Nothing to do with the real facts on the ground that the Left living in rainbow fairy land can't seem to see. 

I had to double check, but yes you did post a link from 'The Gateway Pundit'.

 

Now what was I saying about the extreme rightwing?!

Any Europeans supporting Islamic immigration without insisting full integration into the European culture (including it's religion) is like Turkeys voting for Christmas.

(Or perhaps whatever the Islamic equivalent is - probably not bacon sandwiches!!) 

Conspiracy troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

last week I ordered this for my 3-year old daughter

 

https://www.marksandspencer.com/hijab/p/p22522579?&pdpredirect

 

 

was 0% APR on my Sharia account

 

https://www.lloydsbank.com/current-accounts/all-accounts/islamic-account.asp

 

 

 

 As the racism narrative on the right is extreme and insincere  promoted by those who know better but use it as a wedge tool to separate a constituency , and further political goals , so is the insincerity  of the narrative on the left.

  Most people I know on the right, for the most part, are cultural conservatives, they are not racists.

IMO it is a natural reaction for people to try and preserve their culture.

 At this point IMO The issue is not racism, It is cultural conservatism, and until it is approached as that, there will be friction.

It is that friction that manifests itself in undesirable ways sometimes described with racist overtones. 

 People in a country, get together, work towards  a common goal , and develop a culture that is conducive in accomplishing those goals,( by definition no culture is better or worse, better or worst are subjective terms subject to one's culture,)  then people from other cultures come to said country and want to make it more like their home country. (Much like some here in this forum who would like Thailand to be more like farangland.)

Is it a wonder that people in such countries will react, and react violently sometimes?  

  IMO branding these people as racists , however misguided they might be, does a disservice to all sides, as it discourages dialogue, and promotes hate that further entrenched and polarizes .   

Edited October 14, 20187 yr by sirineou
typo