Online Dating Courtship Roadmap?

[Gadgetwiz]

I apologize if this has been asked before. I searched through this website and Google, but kept finding articles on official paperwork and Sin Sod. I couldn't find much about the courtship process and cultural expectations and timelines.

 

In America, it usually goes something like this:

1) Meet online and communicate on the website 1-2 days

2) Exchange phone numbers and chat a few times

3) Arrange a phone call. Converse and set a meeting place and time if still interested.

4) Meet a few times

5) Hookup for a few months

6) Move in together for a year or two

7) Get married (or separate)

 

I started looking on Thaicupid a few weeks ago. I was looking for High School educated and above women aged 35-45 who were willing to. relocate to the US. I am 49, very active, in good shape, with a good career. Immediately after signing up, I was inundated with messages. After a couple days, I disabled my profile and contacted four of them who generally matched my criteria. Initially all four appeared legit, and each seemed to have reasonable reasons for seeking marriage with a foreigner (children, divorce, age).

 

The first lost interest in me relatively early in the process. That left three.

 

I believe the second was a bar girl. 42. Extremely pretty. Two kids. Little education. Good grasp of the English language. As much as I hated to, it seemed safer to move on.

 

The third (40) had a cosmetics job with work hours that seemed consistent with her description. I also caught her mother looking over her shoulder several times (her mother was always present in the video calls, but usually off-camera). She seemed legitimate, but after a few calls I became uncomfortable. She move from meeting in January to telling me she loved me after a few video calls. Moreover, she was upset when I wouldn't return the amorous words. Furthermore, she was a tiny bit suggestive about post-marriage relations, and she broached the subject of no sex before marriage. That is fine by me, but I thought it was an important bit of information. In the end, I was having flashbacks to my first wife (Why don't you love me!) and decided I should move on.

 

Th fourth girl (38) seemed legit as well. No children. No tattoos. No smoking. Her photographs were mostly taken in an office environment with a name-tag around her neck which was consistent with her graveyard office job (3PM to Midnight office hours which is the only suspicious thing I could find). She had a number of photos showing her hanging out with girlfriends in normal locations (ice cream and such). She is attractive in a wholesome way. She wanted children and was concerned she was getting too old for them. Her mother is 76 and is being taken care of by her sister. Her father has passed, and she lives alone. She seems to be excited by some of my hobbies and activities, and pleased that I am trying to learn the Thai language and more about her culture. She seems too good to be true.

 

Unfortunately, I'm confused about the courtship process. The third girl jumped from messages to love in a week. In some cultures (even the American culture in the 40's and 50's) that wasn't abnormal. When there is no sex before marriage, the courtship process can be abbreviated. I'm not sure how the Thai culture is though. I would really like to know the typical stages of a courtship in Thailand with a nice girl. I know all women aren't the same, but I hope that I have provided enough detail that some general guidance might be possible.

 

I will eventually ask her these questions, but I would like to get as much information as possible before I broach the topic with her. I don't want to risk appearing to eager or apathetic. Even more importantly, I don't want to inadvertently disrespect her.

 

Can somebody provide guidance or point me in the direction of a general roadmap of Thai dating (esp. online)?

 

Specifically, I would like to get answers to these questions as they relate to dating a Thai woman online for relocation to the US:

1) How long is the courtship process after initial video calls?

2) How long should the courtship last before proposal?

3) Should a proposal take place before actually meeting or should I travel to Thailand first?

4) How long after the proposal should the marriage take place.

5) Any advice on dealing with Sin Sod in this situation so I'm not conned.

6) Does anybody see any warning signs I might have missed?

 

I really appreciate any help that can be provided.

[strikingsunset]

The first thing you must do now is read “ Private Dancer” by Stephen Leather


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[neeray]

This is going to be a hot topic that will get many responses from the highly experienced "experts" on ThaiVisa. You did come to the right place for answers. Some will help and tell you of their great experiences (like me). Others (many) will tell you of their bad experiences and say things like "run forest run"; "don't buy, just rent" and others will point out that all (not true though, not "all") Thai girls will see you as a walking ATM machine and will work you until you are dry.

 

As a fellow North American, I agree with your description of the American tradition and timeline but that bares no relationship to what you are seeking.

 

You refer to this situation as "Thai dating". I see that as a misnomer. I interpret your post and desire more like a "mail order bride" service. Many Thai girls would kill to be brought to the USA as a bride, but I doubt that their intentions would be sincere. You may just be their immigration ticket and then their X, subsequent to them gaining status in the US by marriage to you.

 

Beware, many Thai girls drop the endearment "love" quite easily and quickly. They know we farangs can be suckers for it.

 

I have had great success on dating sites. The second serious relationship has become my wife. The first one remains as my pen pal. And a brief one in between; she seemed great until we met in person. I felt no connection at all; she did but I think for all the wrong reasons (security via money).

 

I suggest that you book a trip to Thailand if you find one that seems right for you, meet "real" before you do anything serious. Go slow, you are talking serious business here. If you click when meeting real, move forward. I can not comment on sin sod because it was a non issue in both my relationships. But many others will comment in the many posts to come.

 

There is no black and white answer or standard Thai dating protocol for your situation. You seem rushed and want to cut the red tape. Slow down, keep messaging with all those gals on ThaiCupid and enjoy the ride.

 

Feel free to PM me if you wish greater detail. And good luck.

 

 

 

 

[colinneil]

OP online dating has many good people, many bad, just a mine field.

Here are a few tips i think might help you.

Chat to them, watch their faces when chatting, body language, ask direct questions, if they look directly into the camera good, if they keep looking away, ditch them, because they are not speaking truthfully.

Listen to the language they are using, you will quickly find the bar girls.

If they have baggage forget them, they probably have a Thai husband in the background.

 

Do not be put off by the doom mongers saying all women on dating sites are bargirls, or only after money.

I met my wife of 7 years on a Thai dating site, best wife in the world.

[grumbleweed]

3 hours ago, Gadgetwiz said:

1) How long is the courtship process after initial video calls?

2) How long should the courtship last before proposal?

3) Should a proposal take place before actually meeting or should I travel to Thailand first?

4) How long after the proposal should the marriage take place.

5) Any advice on dealing with Sin Sod in this situation so I'm not conned.

6) Does anybody see any warning signs I might have missed?

WOW! This is bad, even by TV standards. Let me guess: You haven't had much luck with women in the past

 

I'm surprised "oil change" isn't on the list, and what about...

7) What do I do with this bit that sticks out?

 

In your first ever post you've managed to make every TV member look normal. Considering this is likely the biggest collection of reprobates you will every encounter, that's some achievement

 

You can't be real, you just can't. If you are: welcome to TV, You've found your true level

 

Lots of hugs

Grumbleweed

[BoganInParasite]

Personally I could describe in great detail how my experience was and how it ended up in a wonderful ten year/eight married relationship that is still going gangbusters. But that's me and the wife, I really don't think I could offer generic advice that would help.

 

[whiteman]

Come to Thailand for a month sample the delights then move to the next tree and sample again till you find the one that tastes the best then bag it put it in the fridge for a year come back and see if its still in the bag or moved on. ;0

[Peterw42]

OP, there are aspect to your post where it appears more like you are buying a new refrigerator online and asking about the product choices, delivery, warranty. I cant decide between the 2 door with an ice maker, or the single door with the long warranty. How long does shipping take ? 

 

You are meeting girls and exploring a possible connection, attraction, compatibility (so is she). That doesnt have a standard roadmap, time-frame etc. The process is pretty similar all over the world, boy meets girl, they see if they like each other and have things in common, if they do they both agree to take it further.

 

"3) Should a proposal take place before actually meeting or should I travel to Thailand first?"

 

3) should I measure the spot where the new refrigerator will go before I place my order ?

[BritManToo]

5 hours ago, Gadgetwiz said:

3) Should a proposal take place before actually meeting or should I travel to Thailand first?

I would lower your age range, 25-35 would be the norm for a 49yo foreign guy.

 

And the 'no sex before marriage' claim is because you seem a bit gullible.

(Tell them you're no longer interested if they say that, and see what happens)

They all bang on the first date, no need to put it into words.

This ain't America, Thais consider sex normal.

Edited October 16, 2018 by BritManToo

[faraday]

Always remember the Five 'Fs'.

 

????

[BritManToo]

5 hours ago, Gadgetwiz said:

1) How long is the courtship process after initial video calls?

2) How long should the courtship last before proposal?

3) Should a proposal take place before actually meeting or should I travel to Thailand first?

4) How long after the proposal should the marriage take place.

5) Any advice on dealing with Sin Sod in this situation so I'm not conned.

6) Does anybody see any warning signs I might have missed?

1) How long does it take for them to collect you at the airport and drive to your hotel room .... maybe 60 minutes.

5) Pay after you've enjoyed the use of your new purchase ..... 1000bht/night after the night seems fair to me.

[OneMoreFarang]

For whatever reason you don't want a woman form your country - not even an Asian woman living over there.

For whatever reason you think a Thai wife would be good for you.

For whatever reason you think you will be able to find the perfect wife online - on a website which is full of hookers.

And you have 0 experience with Thai women.

What could possibly go wrong?

[seancbk]

Anyone who uses the term 'courtship' will most likely get eaten alive here in Thailand.   OP, stay off the Thai 'dating' sites.  If you are so desperate to get married then either find someone in the US or come here and talk to real Thai women.  BTW your timeline is wrong, see below.
 

5 hours ago, Gadgetwiz said:

In America, it usually goes something like this:

1) Meet online and communicate on the website 1-2 days

2) Exchange phone numbers and chat a few times

3) Arrange a phone call. Converse and set a meeting place and time if still interested.

4) Meet a few times

5) Hookup for a few months

6) Move in together for a year or two

7) Get married (or separate)
???? Get Divorced

 

In Thailand it might go something like this....

1) Meet online and communicate on the website 1-2 days

2) Exchange LINE messenger - arrange to meet next day

3) Meet and sleep together

4) Hookup for a few weeks

5) Move in together for a year or two

6) Get married (or separate)
7) Get Divorced

 

Personally I would avoid steps 5 & 6 and just keep repeating steps 1-4.

[Berkshire]

3 hours ago, neeray said:

Many Thai girls would kill to be brought to the USA as a bride, but I doubt that their intentions would be sincere. You may just be their immigration ticket and then their X, subsequent to them gaining status in the US by marriage to you.

 

There's some truth to this, although I'll say that the vast majority of these Thai girls who "would kill to be brought to the USA as a bride" have got some issues.  Either they're from dysfunctional families, are dirt poor, have zero future prospects, or just otherwise desperate.  Most "normal" Thai girls would much prefer to live in Thailand where their family and friends are.    

 

3 hours ago, neeray said:

Beware, many Thai girls drop the endearment "love" quite easily and quickly. They know we farangs can be suckers for it.

Saying "I love you" in a foreign language has almost no meaning to these girls.  It's the same as saying "good morning."  If they say "I love you" in Thai, different matter.  Foreigners should try this.  Pick a language you don't know, say, Korean.  Find out how they say "I love you."  Say it a few times.  It's just words with no emotional meaning. 

[colinneil]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I would lower your age range, 25-35 would be the norm for a 49yo foreign guy.

 

And the 'no sex before marriage' claim is because you seem a bit gullible.

(Tell them you're no longer interested if they say that, and see what happens)

They all bang on the first date, no need to put it into words.

This ain't America, Thais consider sex normal.

What a load of nonsense... They all bang on the first date.... Absolute BS.

I met my wife on a Thai dating site, and was told no nookie before marriage.

Not easy to accept, but i did accept.

[Thaiwrath]

If you are successful, and manage to find the love of your life to go and live with you, I can lend you a book which might be helpful to you.

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I would lower your age range, 25-35 would be the norm for a 49yo foreign guy.

 

And the 'no sex before marriage' claim is because you seem a bit gullible.

(Tell them you're no longer interested if they say that, and see what happens)

They all bang on the first date, no need to put it into words.

This ain't America, Thais consider sex normal.

Not all Thai girls are hookers, there is still a very large proportion of normal Thai girls who dont have sex until married, or only with long term boyfriend etc. If a Thai girl has sex on a first date, thats a hooker or playing you as a sponsor (still a hooker just different payment terms). 

With a comment like "They all bang on the first date", I can only presume you have never met or dated a normal Thai girl.

[Peterw42]

16 minutes ago, colinneil said:

What a load of nonsense... They all bang on the first date.... Absolute BS.

I met my wife on a Thai dating site, and was told no nookie before marriage.

Not easy to accept, but i did accept.

Yes, would agree. Unfortunately there are lots of guys who pay to have sex with hookers and take it that all Thai girls are hookers.

[runamok27]

1) How long is the courtship process after initial video calls? Depends, I talked with my wife online for about 4 months before going to Thailand to meet her in person. We got married about a year and a half later in the U.S.. Just some advice, you are going to want to bring her over to the U.S. on a fiance visa to get married here. She can hang out in the States for a bit to see how she takes to it, about 30 days. This process can take up to a year, so I used this time to travel to Thailand a few times to spend more time with her.

 

2) How long should the courtship last before proposal? Up to you, it can be as short or as long as you want it to be. Thai's don't seem to have any hard and fast rules about this.

 

3) Should a proposal take place before actually meeting or should I travel to Thailand first? Travel to Thailand first.

 

4) How long after the proposal should the marriage take place. Due to the above visa process it will be about a year. I was told that getting married first and trying to get her a visa for the U.S. will take significantly longer than a fiance visa. It took about 6 months to get my wife's fiance visa. When she is ready to come to the U.S. it is probably best if you go and get her, especially if her English is not great or she hasn't traveled much. Any small snafu, that we can handle quite easily, could have them stuck in a country they have no access to as Thai's and with no money to get home. 

 

5) Any advice on dealing with Sin Sod in this situation so I'm not conned. If she's been married before and has a kid/kids, you shouldn't have to pay anything. It's all negotiable and up to you, whether it's zero or millions of baht. You'll have to see how well off her family is, unfortunately, the more well off, the more money they are going to ask for but like I said, it's negotiable and you can say you'll pay nothing but that probably won't be received very well. Don't pay more than you are comfortable with.

 

6) Does anybody see any warning signs I might have missed? Hard to spot warning signs until you meet up with them. 

 

Good luck and PM me if you have any other questions, I'm happy to help you out.

[OneMoreFarang]

54 minutes ago, colinneil said:

What a load of nonsense... They all bang on the first date.... Absolute BS.

I met my wife on a Thai dating site, and was told no nookie before marriage.

Not easy to accept, but i did accept.

It's your life and good if you are happy with her.

 

But if you don't mind the question: What would you have done if she would have told you after the marriage that she does not like sex (with you or the way you do it). Or maybe she wants only missionary and you want something different.

I think sex is such an important part from a marriage that it make sense to check if the people have fun together before they marry.

[smotherb]

If you have to use a dating site, I guess you have to. So, do your shopping, make no purchases and cull the herd to find a few possible short-listers. Then, come to Thailand for a significant period of time; not just a week or two. Spend some time with each member of your short-list. Find the one or two which meet your criteria. Do not get married yet. Better to go home and think about it while engaging in a long-distance relationship. If you really cannot wait; bring her to the states on a tourist visa--not too hard to do if she has money and a legitimate reason to return to Thailand; and you can always provide the money part.  Learn more about her; see if she can acclimate to the US and your family and friends. If she can and you still want to marry her; it's a long process to get the immigrant visa, but it can be done.  

[PatOngo]

2 hours ago, faraday said:

Always remember the Five 'Fs'.

 

????

I seem to have forgotten what No. 3 and 4 are, can you please remind me?

[OneMoreFarang]

I think one important thing to keep in mind about Thais, and especially Thai women, is the fact that many of them are very good actors. I guess the reason is that their whole life they are used to play roles. With their parents, at school, at work, it all happens according to strict unwritten rules. The Thai smile is just one of those things which can be easily misinterpreted.

 

And a big part of Thai behavior is to do and say what they think the other person expects.

I.e. a woman will likely tell you "I love you" when she thinks this is what you want to hear. And maybe she thinks you want to hear that is because she saw it somewhere in a movie or some other women told her that is the way western men want it.

 

And then there are so many things which nobody talks about because everyone just know how it is and nobody thinks it's necessary to talk about it. The only problem is what typical Thai think is often very different from what westerns think (which is already crazy because there is no such thing as westerner's thinking).

 

In my experience it takes years of living in Thailand to understand Thais. And this understanding is a long process. Often people think i.e. after 6 month now they understand Thais. And then after a year they know they didn't understand it right. And even after decades of living among Thais there are surprises. I live here for more than 20 years. I understand some of Thai thinking, but there is a lot which I don't understand. And I guess that is the case with most other non-Thais here...

[colinneil]

22 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It's your life and good if you are happy with her.

 

But if you don't mind the question: What would you have done if she would have told you after the marriage that she does not like sex (with you or the way you do it). Or maybe she wants only missionary and you want something different.

I think sex is such an important part from a marriage that it make sense to check if the people have fun together before they marry.

What would i have doneif she said she does not like sex, bloody good question mate, which i am unable to answer.

Whether she liked sex or not, it only happened for 2 years, 5 years now without it.

[seancbk]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

4 hours ago, neeray said:

Beware, many Thai girls drop the endearment "love" quite easily and quickly. They know we farangs can be suckers for it.

Saying "I love you" in a foreign language has almost no meaning to these girls.  It's the same as saying "good morning."  If they say "I love you" in Thai, different matter.  Foreigners should try this.  Pick a language you don't know, say, Korean.  Find out how they say "I love you."  Say it a few times.  It's just words with no emotional meaning. 

 

It's a pity there isn't an acceptable expression that means "I think you are hot, I want to keep having sex with you until either I fall in love with you, or I see someone hotter, or I decide to give up and settle for you.  You should be really happy that for the time being you are acceptable as a girlfriend"

 

[seancbk]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Not all Thai girls are hookers, there is still a very large proportion of normal Thai girls who dont have sex until married, or only with long term boyfriend etc. If a Thai girl has sex on a first date, thats a hooker or playing you as a sponsor (still a hooker just different payment terms). 

With a comment like "They all bang on the first date", I can only presume you have never met or dated a normal Thai girl.

 

Are you implying that all Farang girls are hookers?   I've never picked up a Western girl who didn't want to have sex that first time I met them.  Western girls want to have sex just as much as guys and I'm sure Thai girls are the same.  Western girls are just a lot less repressed.

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

Saying "I love you" in a foreign language has almost no meaning to these girls.

Saying 'I love you' means nothing to any girl in any language, in any country these days.

Pump and dump.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Not all Thai girls are hookers, there is still a very large proportion of normal Thai girls who dont have sex until married,

I agree, but none of the girls you mention will be looking for foreigners on dating sites.

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, seancbk said:

Western girls are just a lot less repressed.

I've always thought the western girls were a lot more manly.

[thaiguzzi]

If she says she swallows, meet up quick.

If she squirts you've found true love. Marry her quick.