Cleaning Out The Trash

[Lacessit]

If an agent is no longer allowed, I'll save some money. I get the priority queue being over 75, so that's a help - if I can find it.

What the system really screams out for is standardisation. Different reporting rules for different IO's.

With standardisation, every tourist, expat worker and retiree anywhere in Thailand would know what to expect. At present, we don't. Makes it difficult to plan ahead.

[Thailand]

5 hours ago, Thailand said:

I guess that was not from today's experience?

Apologies, it appears to have been confirmed. 

That said, handing out queue numbers earlier simply means that people would have to be there even earlier than before so don't see any benefit there.

And if , surely not, you have to go in person to get the queue ticket the next stories from immigration will be of the elderly expat popping his clogs and the first of many no doubt going the same way.

DIQ - death in queue , after all a fair proportion are going to be aged 70 plus.

[Mapguy]

It can be very frustrating to arrive at Immigration before dawn and find sitters and agents at the head of the line with "stacks" of individual requests. I don't believe that special consideration should be given by Immigration to agents. No "quickies" by appointment, either!  They should act one by one just as we hoi polloi do.

 

I have never used an agent, but I will need one in the future if I can not fend for myself. There are very legitimate reasons beyond convenience for using a power of attorney (or equivalent permission) in some circumstances.  I tried to call ThaiVisaAssist just now to confirm the recent speculation about obtaining queue numbers and about POAs (or equivalent) to represent another person, but it is Saturday and TVA is closed.

 

If I am not mistaken, any time someone else does any immigration business for another person, the power to do so is required but not normally requested for 90-day reports and TM30s.  Agents do have such a form which has apparently been acceptable to Immigration for any business.  These are easy to prepare.  You can make up your own.  Simple limited powers of attorney.  No big deal.

 

Regarding TM 30s, if Immigration played it "by the book," then individuals not directly reported by a householder (except for hotels and many condos and guest houses) would need a power to report from the householder. But everyone fudges on that requirement.

 

One variation concerns education visas and extensions for children in academic schools, not language schools or "cultural studies" of one kind or another. These are often handled by a representative of the school (from which a lot of information from the school is required by Immigration), but the tudent still has to sh her face.  Usually this service is generally much cheaper than what is charged for equivalent agency work.

 

Medical permission/extensions of stay are also a different matter. NancyL would be one to comment on that.  And that would include which medical facility or practitioner might or might not be acceptable in signing off on an individual's incapacity to a act on his or her own behalf.

 

Competent agents definitely make life simpler for Immigration officers who rightfully complain that paperwork prepared by individuals is often incomplete or incorrect, and reliable agents are savvy on any immediate changes in local office procedures.  Agents actually speed up the process.  It is the queue jumping of agents and line-sitters in front or going in the back door booking appointments in collusion with Immigration that is questionable to me.

 

Solution?  Obviously, Immigration is still behind the curve in solving its capacity problem.  Furthermore, accurate Information disseminated by the Immigration Bureau is not easy to find, and when found, the presentation is often extraordinarily awkward or incomplete.  The bureau creates most of its own problems and creats unnecessary problems for clients.  Compared to other government services and necessary private businesses like banking, the senior management performance of the Immigration Bureau in Chiang Mai is abysmal. Sic 'em, "Big Joke!"

Edited October 20, 2018 by Mapguy

[worgeordie]

Thank you Big Joke, at last a level playing field,just hope

it lasts,and that could be the problem,as it seems a lot

of opportunities have been lost,know what i mean.

regards worgeordie

[Thailand]

21 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

It can be very frustrating to arrive at Immigration before dawn and find sitters and agents at the head of the line with "stacks" of individual requests. I don't believe that special consideration should be given by Immigration to agents. No "quickies" by appointment, either!  They should act one by one just as we hoi polloi do.

 

I have never used an agent, but I will need one in the future if I can not fend for myself. There are very legitimate reasons beyond convenience for using a power of attorney (or equivalent permission) in some circumstances.  I tried to call ThaiVisaAssist just now to confirm the recent speculation about POAs (or equivalent) to represent another person, but it is Saturday and TVA is closed.

 

If I am not mistaken, any time someone else does any immigration business for another person, the power to do so is required but not normally requested for 90-day reports and TM30s.  Agents do have such a form which has apparently been acceptable to Immigration for any business.  These are easy to prepare.  You can make up your own.  Simple limited powers of attorney.  No big deal.

 

Regarding TM 30s, if Immigration played it "by the book," then individuals not directly reported by a householder (except for hotels and many condos and guest houses) would need a power to report from the householder. But everyone fudges on that requirement.

 

One variation concerns education visas and extensions for children in academic schools, not language schools or "cultural studies" of one kind or another. These are often handled by a representative of the school (from which a lot of information from the school is required by Immigration), but the tudent still has to sh her face.  Usually this service is generally much cheaper than what is charged for equivalent agency work.

 

Medical permission/extensions of stay are also a different matter. NancyL would be one to comment on that.  And that would include which medical facility or practitioner might or might not be acceptable in signing off on an individual's incapacity to a act on his or her own behalf.

 

Competent agents definitely make life simpler for Immigration officers who rightfully complain that paperwork prepared by individuals is often incomplete or incorrect, and reliable agents are savvy on any immediate changes in local office procedures.  Agents actually speed up the process.  It is the queue jumping of agents and line-sitters in front or going in the back door booking appointments in collusion with Immigration that is questionable to me.

 

Solution?  Obviously, Immigration is still behind the curve in solving its capacity problem.  Furtehrmore, accurate Information disseminated by the Immigration Bureau is not easy to find, and when found, the presentation is often extraordinarily awkward or incomplete.  The bureau creates most of its own problems and creats unnecessary problems for clients.  Compared to other government services and necessary private businesses like banking, the senior management performance of the Immigration Bureau in Chiang Mai is abysmal. Sic 'em, "Big Joke!"

How are line sitters jumping the queue,I really don't get that one? 

The person for whom they are sitting simply rolls up and takes their place nobody loses out, or am I missing something?

 

Agents on the other hand do actually "jump" the queue. 

[Mapguy]

Line sitters with more than one client.

[Russell17au]

Maybe the Line sitters are employed by agents so that the agent does not have to sit there and wait.

[Thailand]

2 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

Line sitters with more than one client.

That is a very big difference. 

 

[connda]

On 10/19/2018 at 4:25 PM, ukrules said:

This is not good news for the housebound, this guy has just deemed himself above the law by refusing to accept power of attorney.

 

They really do make it up as they go don't they.

I can see it now when the first comatose farang who is being hospitalized for a stroke has to be wheeled in on a stretcher with attending nurses and healthcare helpers, IV bottles, etc so that he/she can 'apply in person' and 'sign' their extension paperwork in the flesh.  That would be a nice piece for the US, UK, EU tabloids to publish. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by connda

[Thailand]

Just now, connda said:

I can see it now when they first comatose farang who is being hospitalized for a stroke has to be wheeled in on a stretcher with attending nurses and healthcare helpers, IV bottles, etc so that he/she can 'apply in person' and 'sign' their extension paperwork in the flesh.  That would be a nice piece for the US, UK, EU tabloids to publish. 

As I said in an earlier post DIQ (Death in Queue) 

[ramrod711]

38 minutes ago, Thailand said:

As I said in an earlier post DIQ (Death in Queue) 

To be honest, if immigration did not use a quota system (like 40 extensions per day for instance), and everyone just showed up and did their jobs as efficiently as they could for 8 hours a day I would be happy to wait. Watching people wander around moving like they are underwater is kind of an irritant to me. I know there are a lot more of us now, but when we used to report at the little house on the left years ago it took the agent a maximum of ten minutes. They weren't perspiring either, just doing the job at a sustainable pace.

[Thailand]

New signage for immigration "retirement" queue.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Thailand

[Hugh Jarse]

On 10/19/2018 at 6:29 PM, Ned said:

With no agent to help them everyone will have to get down there themselves very very early now, passport in hand.

This is a big change which if  enforced might see an exodus of those expats who have been tossing up whether to stay on  in CM or move elsewhere.

On the other hand who knows. It might mean that CM Imm might be on the road to getting an orderly and effficient service going down there. (Sorry for being optimistic.....but you never know.)

Good to see some optimism here. It is to be hoped that BJ will indeed improve the situation of long queues and restore some credibility to that wing of the Police force. I have never patronised the Agents because their fees include an element of tea money and encourages coruption.

 

[rumak]

My solution is simple :   What is the average number of people per day applying for  1. education ext.

2. retirement ext     3.  marriage ext.

If nobody there can figure out how many IO are needed to process said number ( and how to distribute number of IO per grouping)  I am sure there are volunteers from TV that could do that.

 

And:   designate 2 officers to do "priority service"  where those applicants wishing can pay a set fee ( much less than what agents charge)  and return at end of day for completed service. (would need also one asst.

to review paperwork).  The money from this service could be used to hire additional IO if necessary for

this busy office.

 

remember to vote for Rumak .   free pizza for everyone !

[Ks45672]

On 10/19/2018 at 6:29 PM, Ned said:

With no agent to help them everyone will have to get down there themselves very very early now, passport in hand.

This is a big change which if  enforced might see an exodus of those expats who have been tossing up whether to stay on  in CM or move elsewhere.

On the other hand who knows. It might mean that CM Imm might be on the road to getting an orderly and effficient service going down there. (Sorry for being optimistic.....but you never know.)

They should get the crowd's under control before these "improvements" 

 

I'm still young enough so it doesn't bother me yet but i can see problems for the elderly or impaired  being expected to  stand in a 5+ hour queue..... 

 

 

[DJ54]

For grins I emailed the agent I used once when I first came to Thailand. Their out of BKK the last two tomes applied myself no problems. 

 

I contacted person/business he said no problem to use for visa business as usual.

[Dante99]

6 hours ago, DJ54 said:

For grins I emailed the agent I used once when I first came to Thailand. Their out of BKK the last two tomes applied myself no problems. 

 

I contacted person/business he said no problem to use for visa business as usual.

They are in BKK, is their reply specifically about Chiang Mai which seems to be in a unique situation?

[TTSIssues]

The main issue is the over complication for any process involving government agencies. For example, why on earth is a “re-entry permit” needed. If you already have all the correct paperwork to live in Thailand, either by marriage, work or retirement, why on earth do you need a permit to leave and then come back? Nothing material will change in a weekend away. The amount of work carried out could be streamlined and reduced in a heartbeat. 

[Blue bruce]

Since immigration opened their new office after relocating from Chop Chaing immigration is a breeze. No lines or ques. 90 day check in 5 minutes. Extension, check in and re-entry permit 30 minutes. 

Thank you Buriram immigration

[daoyai]

On 10/21/2018 at 6:36 PM, TTSIssues said:

The main issue is the over complication for any process involving government agencies. For example, why on earth is a “re-entry permit” needed. If you already have all the correct paperwork to live in Thailand, either by marriage, work or retirement, why on earth do you need a permit to leave and then come back? Nothing material will change in a weekend away. The amount of work carried out could be streamlined and reduced in a heartbeat. 

The purpose of the re-entry permit is to collect 1,000 baht.

[biggles45]

"I retired to the Philippines after 10+ years in Thailand mainly on non immigrant visas. I now have a RESIDENT Retirement Visa with an ID CARD. In 7 years I have never been to an immigration office, no reportng at all, no exit/re entry nonsense. That is how it should be done !! 

[how241]

Give things a month or two and then you will be able to see the changes, if any.