Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[Russell17au]

2 minutes ago, kensisaket said:

Sign in / up | Social Security Administration

 

https://www.ssa.gov/site/signin/en/

1.  
2.  

my Social Security Securely access information from your Social Security record, including earnings history and estimates of your retirement, disability and ...

So if you can supply the US embassy with a document that verifies you income from your social security then why cannot the embassy supply you with the affirmation letter on viewing you document of verification of income from the social security. Maybe this should be put to the US embassy.

[smotherb]

6 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

No, what I mean is can you get an official document from social security verifying what your income is that you are receiving from them?

Never tried to get an official document from the. The SSA does send you the SSA-1099 tax forms every year.

 

The 1099 is official enough for the IRS, but the IRS checks with the SSA. I doubt the Thais would consider it official. 

 

But, I think you miss the point; it appears the Thais want the money filtered through Thailand monthly. 

[HHTel]

2 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

According to the British Embassy, Thai immigration has never insisted on affadavits to extend a retirement visa.

 

As I understand their advice, this can be done simply by producing printout of a Thai bank account showing at least 90,000 baht paid in each month since the previous extension.  

 

The printout should be stamped and signed by a bank official and the relevant bankbook will also need to be produced. Presumably, this guidance will apply equally to retirees of all nationalities.

The British Embassy have never been involved in 'income affidavits'. 

 

Quote

As I understand their advice, this can be done simply by producing printout of a Thai bank account showing at least 90,000 baht paid in each month since the previous extension.  

I think you're getting confused which is quite understandable considering the amount of info (good and bad) spread around these threads.

[pgrahmm]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

You are posting as facts things about which you don't have a clue.  If you get SS in Thailand you have to remove it from your Bank of Bangkok account in person.  Take it out and put it in a SCB account (online banking)  Or.  Check and see where you can withdraw money from Union pay in America before you quote information which is in error.  Being angry at Thailand is hardly justification for posting things that are false and no I don't care about PI it has nothing to do with this topic.  

Why the hell would I be mad at Thailand?  They're going to do what they are going to do....I'm here for the duration......Have one more daughter still in school.......

I'm aware how the system works & have accounts at both banks, thank you....

Drop off your high horse there caballero......

As I explained before - this is what I was told by the bank officer; and thus the possible reason reason for it.....

Go take your valium, beer, coffee, whatever & untie the knot in your ____________(fill in the blank).....

Down, big fella, down......

[Russell17au]

2 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Never tried to get an official document from the. The SSA does send you the SSA-1099 tax forms every year.

 

The 1099 is official enough for the IRS, but the IRS checks with the SSA. I doubt the Thais would consider it official. 

 

But, I think you miss the point; it appears the Thais want the money filtered through Thailand monthly. 

No, the point is that the Thai's have stated that they want verification of income, now if verification of income is supplied to them from the embassy they cannot then change there mind and say "No, we want the money in our banks"

[brewsterbudgen]

I am leaning in this direction as well. I can easily do the deposit, but why stay where I am not wanted? Take my money and my pension and check out somewhere else.

It's a little emotional to think you're "not wanted". Thailand hasn't changed the financial requirements.

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[regularguy]

yes

You can login to the US Social Security website.
There is a downloadable/printable form called SS verification letter. Also, there is a SS benefits statement and I also saw a payment history form.
I haven’t applied for my first extension, yet. But, I was planning to bring these. Maybe someone can provide guidance if these docs would be acceptable based on their previous experiences.



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[Oztruckie]

6 hours ago, certacito said:

How long until the Australian embassy's news flash ?

Was at the Oz embassy yesterday for the Stat Dec, asked that very question, lady didn't know anything about it at that stage, will be posted on their website if and when it happens was her response. 

[Dante99]

5 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

No, the point is that the Thai's have stated that they want verification of income, now if verification of income is supplied to them from the embassy they cannot then change there mind and say "No, we want the money in our banks"

Sure they can change their minds.  Who is going to stop them?

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Which begs the question, how long will each Immigration office accept this documentation? Through January 2019, through March 31, 2019, through June 30, 2019?

 

 

 

Understood, but then how does just keeping a lump sum of 800,000 in an account year-in, year-out show as having necessary funds? Do you have to spend this fully over -15 to -3 months, then replenish it?

 

It seems like many people just keep 800,000 parked for years, and then live off other funds, which may be more, or less than, 65,000 per month.

 

My plan is to park 800,000, but am worried that Immigration will want to see that account used for living expenses.

 

People have been questioned if their bank book shows no withdrawals of the 800K. Specifically, asked what they are living on.

 

But why on earth would you do that?  You have to spend something to live here, why not draw down on the 800K ? That is what it is supposed to be for.

 

Doesn't matter if you draw down less than the full amount. You just top up back to 800 3 months before renewal time. So if you have some other income stream in addition to the 800K,  use it for the top up.

 

The people with an actual problem are those who can't come up with 800K. Their problem is likely small if they have at least 65k/month in income, as Embassy letters can still be used through at least June and TI will presumably clarify documentation requirements well before then. Their problem is huge if they also do not have 65k/month in income. Switching to extension of stay based on marriage will help some but not all of them as there are people here with less than 40k/Month/400K a year.

 

 

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

People have been questioned if their bank book shows no withdrawals of the 800K. Specifically, asked what they are living on.

 

But why on earth would you do that?  You have to spend something to live here, why not draw down on the 800K ? That is what it is supposed to be for.

 

Doesn't matter if you draw down less than the full amount. You just top up back to 800 3 months before renewal time. So if you have some other income stream in addition to the 800K,  use it for the top up.

 

The people with an actual problem are those who can't come up with 800K. Their problem is likely small if they have at least 65k/month in income, as Embassy letters can still be used through at least June and TI will presumably clarify documentation requirements well before then. Their problem is huge if they also do not have 65k/month in income. Switching to extension of stay based on marriage will help some but not all of them as there are people here with less than 40k/Month/400K a year.

 

 

I have had the 800K in a short term deposit account for 9 years, it's never been touched, and I have never been asked to show any other means of income or prove what I actually live on, but I could if asked.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Thai Police order 777/2551 hasn't changed thus Thai Immigration's requirements haven't changed.

 

Retired

 

Lump sum of 800k seasoned or 65k/month income, either of them in a Thai bank account in the applicants name.

 

2.22 In the case of retirement:

Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year.

 

The alien:
(1) Must have been granted a non­immigrant visa (NON­IM).
(2) Must be 50 years of age or over.
(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month: or
(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no
less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must
have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no
less than 60 days prior to the filing date: or

(5) Must have an annual earning and fluids deposited with a bank totaling no less than
Baht 800,0000 as of the filing date.
(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been
consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following
criteria:
(a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with fluids
maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have
a monthly income of no less than Baht 20,000
(b) If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual
fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less
than Baht 500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000

 

Married

 

Lump sum of 400k seasoned or 40k/month income, either of them in a Thai bank account in the applicants name.

 

2.18 In the case of a family member of a Thai(applicable only to parents, spouse, child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse):
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.

 

The alien:

(1) Has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)
(2) Proof of family relationship
(3) In the case of a spouse, the marital relationship shall be dejure (legitimate) and de facto;
(4) In the case of a child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse, the said person must not be married, must be living with the family, and must be less than 20 years of age; or
(5) In the case of a parent, one of parents must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit of not less than 400,000 baht for expenses within a year.
(6) In case of marriage with a Thai lady, the husband who is an alien must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit in a local Thai bank of not less than 400,000 baht for the past 2 months for expenses within a year.

 

No foreign documents are acceptable.

I totally agree that is the status quo and people should regard that as the status quo unless the status quo CHANGES.

[Russell17au]

8 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

Sure they can change their minds.  Who is going to stop them?

I believe that they would not do that because they would lose face and Thai's will not do not like to lose face.

I am trying to find something that maybe you lot could maybe take to your embassy and see if they will change their system which could save a lot of you from having to leave Thailand

[Krataiboy]

13 minutes ago, HHTel said:

The British Embassy have never been involved in 'income affidavits'. 

 

I think you're getting confused which is quite understandable considering the amount of info (good and bad) spread around these threads.

Sorry, I assumed income affadavits were the US equivalent of the pension affirmation letters issued by the British Embassy in Bangkok to UK citizens applying for visa renewals based upon monthly income remitted to Thailand. Am I wrong?

[Sheryl]

Several off topic/frivolus or unconstructive/unhelpful posts and replies to them have been removed.

 

This topic is of serious concern to many people. Please respect that. People's lives are potentially affected.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, nickmondo said:

go to immigration straight away and request 3 month O Visa to start at end of your tourist visa

Easier said than done, at some immigration offices - unless you want to pay 20K Baht to an agent.

 

1 hour ago, Number 6 said:

Because embassies in the region have long since stopped issuing perpetual non-o for vagabond westerners.

 

Non OA - home country

Because shipping yourself across the planet in a tube to deliver paperwork which could be sent electronically, in this day and age, is important, somehow?

 

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

And do you know who usually whines the loudest every time something like this happens ? It's usually the ones who CAN'T meet the requirement and know they will be exposed, despite all their claims of how super rich they supposedly are.

i.e. -  The guy with 65K gross income, who qualified before, but now doesn't, because the new rule would be 65K net-imported - not gross in home-country.  That's a big difference.  And when did those folks claim to be "super rich"?

And, yeah, I'd be really angry if I settled here under the old rules - here for years - suddenly to find I had to join the line of "immigration-welcomed" cheats at the nearby agent, and pay envelope-money to get a permitted-stay, which had always been obtained honestly, before.

 

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

(Which is why Immigration is also cracking down on "Visa Agents".)

Not that I've seen reported.  Just one who was falsifying tax-docs for Indians on Non-Bs - not the ones handling thousands of marriage and retirement extensions for offices where doing things "by the book" is sometimes made as difficult as possible. 

 

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

I find it hilarious as threads like this usually do expose just how many people have been skimming by without being able to actually meet the requirements.

You might want to ask yourself, why it gives you pleasure ("hilarious") to see people poorer than yourself, who never harmed you or anyone else, suffer - have their lives turned upside-down by forces beyond their control. 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, oobar said:

This seasoned 800k has to arrive from out of the country, right?  In the case of someone who has several million baht in a Thai RMF or provident fund, money previously earned in Thailand, does that also mean one cannot simply cash out 800k for the deposit?

Only required to show origin to get an initial Non-O 90-day stamp, which is a pre-requisite for the annual extension only when one enters the country on a Tourist-type entry.

 

1 hour ago, smotherb said:

You see, neither embassy is willing to verify income. The only difference; the UK embassy required you to provide paper work. 

One other difference, UK folks didn't have to swear an oath to a consular-officer that the info was true.

[blackhorse]

I am very happy about this.
Get rid of the scum cheaters.
I for one am worried about nothing.
Thankfully, I educated myself, planned, prepared, and made some proper decisions.
If all else fails, I will just transfer the 800 k into my BKK bank account several months prior.
No big deal.  So easy no stress.  Sigh......

I suspect those stomping their feet and leaving for Vietnam because they.. Uhum.. Refuse to transfer 800k don't have it and don't have the 65k even via bank statement
Fleeing over 800 k if you have it is cutting off your nose to spite your face. The interest lost of three months is negligible unless you are one of the money posters here that are super traders throwing around figures of 20%every single year in which case 800k should be loose change.
Don't make no sense

[connda]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I think immigration is determined to weed out the guys who are just getting by. It seems, since they have lost the golden egg of affluent tourists, years ago, due to a countless number of mistakes on the part of the authorities, they are now trying to make up for it, with more affluent ex-pats.

But my guess is that they will toss the baby out with the bath water.  But ain't that just 'so Thai'?   The 'guys who are just getting by' each probably out earn the average Thai three times over or more all spent on the Thai economy.  But the average Thai isn't forward thinking enough to see the bigger picture.  It is what it is.  C'est la vie.

[Kadilo]

3 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

I suspect those stomping their feet and leaving for Vietnam because they.. Uhum.. Refuse to transfer 800k don't have it and don't have the 65k even via bank statement
Fleeing over 800 k if you have it is cutting off your nose to spite your face. The interest lost of three months is negligible unless you are one of the money posters here that are super traders throwing around figures of 20%every single year in which case 800k should be loose change.
Don't make no sense

“Super traders” are the new SAS commanders. 

[Mac98]

Not sure why the embassy can't document a retirees Social Security income. We each have the government statement showing monthly and annual income, and it could accompany a bank printout showing it going into your account. That would cover most applicants. The ones getting their money from some dead cousin's trust would follow the new rules. 

[Nyezhov]

Just now, Mac98 said:

Not sure why the embassy can't document a retirees Social Security income. We each have the government statement showing monthly and annual income, and it could accompany a bank printout showing it going into your account. That would cover most applicants. The ones getting their money from some dead cousin's trust would follow the new rules. 

My difficulty with that is that I dont need 65K a month to live here, so why would I want to draw that much into an account every month, especially if I carry a base balance of like 200K?

[gaviny]

Lovely.  My retirement extension is up for renewal mid-January, so it's now too late to have the B800,000 on deposit in a Thai bank for 90 days.  What the heck am I supposed to do?

Surely there would be special dispensation for guys like you , maybe TI will accept letters up till end of June 2019. I've got 2 weeks to deposit as my visa expires mid February.

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[JAG]

7 hours ago, quandow said:

Just got my notice, too. I think big picture, Thailand wants a lot more capital inside its borders. As well, MANY retirees will eventually die and not make the proper plans to have their money repatriated. It's a scummy move and will have a LOT of us planning to seek life elsewhere.

Frankly, even if they lined up every "retiree" tomorrow, put them on planes and hung onto the B800,000 from each one, it would amount to a totally insignificant amount of "capital" for the country.

 

I tend to the view that, as with my (British) embassies anouncement, the Thais, aware that in some (many?) cases there have been some less than truthful declarations, have asked for verification. The consular system either can't or won't do so, hence ceasing the programme. No doubt many other countries will follow suite.

[CMPaulie]

Well hells bells. So much for all the happy HS of retiring in Thailand for $800 USD per month unless you want to keep $25,000 USD in a Thai bank account that can't be touched for 25% of the year. What's the purpose of trying to retire comfortably on the cheap if it's going to cost you 25K for the privilege? There needs to be a update done to some information about retiring to Thailand. Wonder when the Chinese will get the news. 555555

[Mac98]

3 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

My difficulty with that is that I dont need 65K a month to live here, so why would I want to draw that much into an account every month, especially if I carry a base balance of like 200K?

Sorry I wasn't clear. The SS money could still be going into your bank at home. That's the point of Embassy affidavit.

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, gaviny said:

Surely there would be special dispensation for guys like you , maybe TI will accept letters up till end of June 2019. I've got 2 weeks to deposit as my visa expires mid February.

The Embassy Letter will be issued until 1 Jan 2019- It is good for 6 months- Thai immigration has informed the Us Embassy they will accept the letter  with 6 month validity- that means if one applies 30-45 days early the letters will be good thru June 2019 for extensions based upon income letters.  If your extension ends in July or first week of August- you should be good as many offices allow applications for extension 45 days in advance.

[stropper]

7 hours ago, certacito said:

How long until the Australian embassy's news flash ?

one can only hope, so many here that should not be , <deleted> of home !

 

[Nyezhov]

1 minute ago, Mac98 said:

Sorry I wasn't clear. The SS money could still be going into your bank at home. That's the point of Embassy affidavit.

Exactly.  Like I said earlier, lets say I  have 2,000 each month into my US account, thats 65K. I keep 100K or so in a Thai bank account just as a floor. Come over here with $6,000 cash, that keeps me going for a few months as I dont really spend more than $40 a day if even that...on everything. If I need more, I can get more. Im only staying part time, if I have to, Ill go the METV route or SETVs plus runs, Im just trying to minimize the hassle and giving me the chance to come and go as I please over a full year. I feel bad for the guys that have full time lives and wives, etc. I hope that we get some firm guidance.

[earlinclaifornia]

AWESOME I save $50 which was such a rip off because they really did not do anything more than their stamp. All you do is get the SSA Income statement from on line. Include proof of back deposits and transfers. <deleted> I'm glad to save for them doing nothing. Hated Thailand thought this was a good idea.