Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[Parsve]

4 hours ago, ThaiWai said:

Well it doesn’t say I can’t still get one at the consular outreach in Phuket in November so will do so as planned. My pension is well over the required income amount it’s up to Thailand to explain what proof they will want of that moving forward but my pension company simply offers letters stating that fact not leather bound presidential decrees signed in blood and sealed with the Whitehouse crest. Knowing Thailand they will want just that.

You are safe for one year, the new rules take effect on January 1, 2019.

[how241]

They should lower the requirements for people owning a condo as they don't need that much money  to live on.  

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, Number 6 said:

I simply don't believe it. I live in central BKK, off the MRT. Days can go by without seeing a falang. I can come and go to work and not see another foreigner. This might not be every day, but...

 

I was up in Central Pohan Yotin Just today, no foreigners.

 

I'd only be trusting immigration data on O visas. Everyone else just flotsam

3 million could be mostly migrant workers from Myanmar and Cambodia, certainly not all falangs.

[willwildy]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

A little under $25,000 and tied up for only 3 months.

 

And some of that amount you would nto have had available for any sort of long term investment anyhow since you do in fact have daily expenses here.

 

I am at a loss to understand all the people who talk about this 25K as money that would otherwise be invested in stocks or higher interest long term bank accounts in other countries.  That is so only if you have 0 living expenses in Thailand and I really do nto think there are many, if any, expats for whom that is the case.  The "opportunity costs" of putting 800K in the bank here pertains only to whatever amount of that is more than you are going to need for your living costs. And only for 3 months. I am not saying there is no loss, but it is much smaller than the >$1,000 a year people are making it out to be.

I have been investing in land in thailand as I have children here and want them to be "well off" when I expire. I will just postpone my next 10 rai purchase till I have the required funds in a thai bank and then carry on as before.

[HHTel]

9 minutes ago, willwildy said:

 

 

I did a web search that showed the 2010 thai census number of foreigners at 2.58 million then roughed in the numbers of additional immigrants for the next 8 years. In all likelyhood it is even higher than 3 million.

More than 2 and a half million are migrant workers.  The biggest two western expat groups are the UK and the US with around 120,000 +.  Western retirees are the only ones needing this cash deposit.  According to the British Embassy, only 3,000 Brits apply for the income letter.  Of those 3,000, a good proportion will be on extensions based on marriage.

Edited October 26, 2018 by HHTel

[Pattaya46]

6 minutes ago, willwildy said:

I did a web search that showed the 2010 thai census number of foreigners at 2.58 million then roughed in the numbers of additional immigrants for the next 8 years. In all likelyhood it is even higher than 3 million.

Foreigners vs Farangs, or at least Foreigners vs. non-Asian.

Farangs expats probably no more than 500'000

And many of them or neither on Retirement extension nor on Marriage extension...

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, willwildy said:

The thais are allowing people to renew/extend up to 3 months early,

Would that that were true. I'd do mine now just for some peace of mind for the next 15 months, but I wonder if anyone has tried that. I have a feeling not all offices, if any, will implement that or be aware of that.

 

Maybe this is something that Ubon Joe could look into.

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Suradit69

[Sheryl]

7 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

Yes, the person who quoted some supervisor at CW sounded like she, the supervisor, was saying the same as was suggested by the embassies (re show Baht 65000 a month going into Thai account, etc). 

 

One wonders who is leading and who is following in terms of announcing/deciding what would be acceptable.

 

 

 

 

To me it sounds like there have been discussions between TI and Embassies (at least some Embassies, perhaps more to follow?). Changes are planned to TI documentation requirements and these have prompted some Embassies (perhaps later more) to stop issuing income letters.

 

What has gone wrong is that there has been no synchronization of announcements between TI and the Embassies. Each is following its own internal processes in isolation of the other, and TI has  yet formally issued any revised guidelines.

 

It certainly would have been better IMO for the Embassies to await issuance of new guidance from TI first and then issue their announcements. But perhaps TI is taking an unexpectedly long time and there was concern retirees would be caught by surprise with insufficient time to prepare.

[DPKANKAN]

4 hours ago, wpcoe said:

Lovely.  My retirement extension is up for renewal mid-January, so it's now too late to have the B800,000 on deposit in a Thai bank for 90 days.  What the heck am I supposed to do?

You get the Embassy to do the letter now as it is valid for 6 months. A friend just checked this out at Irritation, sorry Immigration last week.

[billsmart]

I got emails about this too.
 

I'm still looking for a source that can tell me just WHAT Thai Immigrations will accept to verify monthly income. All their website says for Type O-A (Retirement) visas is "...or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht." What I'm now trying to find out is just what they will accept as an "income certificate." Does that have to be something from the income provider - like Social Security and/or a pension fund? Or will they accept a Thai bank book showing regular, monthly international transfer deposits?

 

I'm okay for this year. I'll get my Income Certificate as usual from the US Embassy the first week in Dec, and then extend my Retirement visa another year in mid-Dec. So, I guess I have another year to figure out what I'm going to need next year. If anyone has any more information on this, please post it here. 

Thanks...Bill!

[Number 6]

3 minutes ago, giddyup said:

3 million could be mostly migrant workers from Myanmar and Cambodia, certainly not all falangs.

Very possibly, but the calculation of billlions of dollars being forcably injected into Thai banks was trotted out.

 

Burmese and Khmer, some big money there.

[Nyezhov]

27 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Home visits for retirement? When did I miss that?

I Just had one today

[Tchooptip]

It's an absolute shame, someone who has 2000/2500$ every month could be a retiree in Thailand and certainly live decently,  now if this person does not have 25 000 $ in saving to put in a Thai bank he will be forced out? 

[Suradit69]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

But perhaps TI is taking an unexpectedly long time and there was concern retirees would be caught by surprise with insufficient time to prepare.

Well as these lengthy threads show, income verification is a complicated issue because not everyone has a single, verifiable income source and not everyone's circumstances are the same.

 

If they simply say Baht 800,000 or Baht 65,000 shown per month, that will leave a lot of people high and dry.

 

Like you I would especially like some clear guidelines on  the combination method since it would be the least "messy" method for me.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Suradit69

[giddyup]

4 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

I Just had one today

For what purpose? Are you a long time stayer?

[Number 6]

8 minutes ago, willwildy said:

I have been investing in land in thailand as I have children here and want them to be "well off" when I expire. I will just postpone my next 10 rai purchase till I have the required funds in a thai bank and then carry on as before.

We nor the Thai government care about your empire building in Issan. This is a personal problem. It's your money, do as you see fit. Enjoy your day. It's laughable how self absorbed people are and how personally this is being taken.

 

Put the damn money on the bank. Get an OA, a marriage visa or leave. You're not being treated any differently than anyone else so suck it up.

 

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Another off topic post has been removed. The is a serious topic and there is no room for jokes or other nonsense.

From now on there will be no notice of removals. I your post disappears you can assume that you stepped over the line.

 

Just a reminder posts are being removed without notice and that includes replies to removed posts.

 

[Nyezhov]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

For what purpose? Are you a long time stayer?

I posted on it

[Russell17au]

19 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

This is quite impossible

It is not impossible to get a 1 year marriage visa from Savannakhet, Laos for 5000B. You will need your passport, original and copy of the marriage certificate, a signed copy of your wifes house book and a signed copy of your wifes Thai ID card. There is no financials needed for this visa. This is only for a marriage visa, there is no retirement visa's.

With this visa you do not do 90 day reports at immigration but you must leave the country every 90 days and if you leave the country 2 days before the visa expires and return back into the country before the visa expires then you will get another 90 days. It is a 1 year Multi Entry Marriage Visa and it is only available at Savannakhet not Vientiane. The only thing is that as there are changes with the immigration and many embassies and consulates are going to be looked at, this visa may be short lived.

[Sheryl]

36 minutes ago, oobar said:

This seasoned 800k has to arrive from out of the country, right?  In the case of someone who has several million baht in a Thai RMF or provident fund, money previously earned in Thailand, does that also mean one cannot simply cash out 800k for the deposit?

I have heard that only the initial deposit prior to 1st extension has to show proof of coming from out of the country and not thereafter - but I personally have been asked to show proof subsequently so may vary with the IO.

 

Of course in your case even the initial proof is an issue as the funds were earned in Thailand initially.

[sandyf]

35 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Home visits for retirement? When did I miss that?

Rather than repeat myself have a look here.

 

[wvavin]

In my opinion this is not the fault of new regulation but to weed out non genuine retirees only.

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, peterb17 said:

And so many posts seem to be blaming the British embassy for kicking this whole thing off.

Because they've admitted that they haven't really been verifying anything. If they were actually verifying income claims they wouldn't have had to stop issuing the letters.

[NanLaew]

37 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This is new territory.

Without the letters, we don't know that they will accept any foreign documents at all. 

Thai Police order 777/2551 hasn't changed thus Thai Immigration's requirements haven't changed.

 

Retired

 

Lump sum of 800k seasoned or 65k/month income, either of them in a Thai bank account in the applicants name.

 

2.22 In the case of retirement:

Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year.

 

The alien:
(1) Must have been granted a non­immigrant visa (NON­IM).
(2) Must be 50 years of age or over.
(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month: or
(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no
less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must
have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no
less than 60 days prior to the filing date: or

(5) Must have an annual earning and fluids deposited with a bank totaling no less than
Baht 800,0000 as of the filing date.
(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been
consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following
criteria:
(a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with fluids
maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have
a monthly income of no less than Baht 20,000
(b) If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual
fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less
than Baht 500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000

 

Married

 

Lump sum of 400k seasoned or 40k/month income, either of them in a Thai bank account in the applicants name.

 

2.18 In the case of a family member of a Thai(applicable only to parents, spouse, child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse):
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.

 

The alien:

(1) Has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)
(2) Proof of family relationship
(3) In the case of a spouse, the marital relationship shall be dejure (legitimate) and de facto;
(4) In the case of a child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse, the said person must not be married, must be living with the family, and must be less than 20 years of age; or
(5) In the case of a parent, one of parents must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit of not less than 400,000 baht for expenses within a year.
(6) In case of marriage with a Thai lady, the husband who is an alien must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit in a local Thai bank of not less than 400,000 baht for the past 2 months for expenses within a year.

 

No foreign documents are acceptable.

[DPKANKAN]

3 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Because its their country, their rules....I feel that speculating as to "whys" all the time clouds the issues. Its government. It makes no sense sometimes anywhere,

It is their typical 'knee-jerk' reaction to Big Jokes clamp down. Yes they want to stop the 'bad guys', but have not thought about the effect on us legit ones doing it properly as per their requirements!!

[sqwakvfr]

I asked two Visa Agencies about the “early renewal” part on US Embassy FAQ page and both replied 45 days in Chiang Mai is considered early renewal.  They did not know anything about this new “early renewal” part from the US Embassy.  Maybe this and other matters will be clarified in the near future?

[IAMHERE]

I don't want to mess with the FBAR hassle. I also don't want to move 800,000 from America anymore because I'd do it thru the Bangkok Bank and my home banks don't know diddly about IACH, lucky that they can accomplish ACH regular. Gonna be a choice between devils you hate and those you don't know.

[blackhorse]

How long until the Australian embassy's news flash ?

From the oz embassy website. Maybe the oz ambassador has a compromising pic of BJ So they are exempt

"We understand that the British Embassy in Bangkok will no longer be providing British nationals with letters confirming their income from 1 January 2019.

The Australian Embassy does not issue income letters. Our notarial services include the witnessing of Australian statutory declarations for Australian citizens, or for use in Australia. This process remains unchanged."

[Number 6]

Just now, Russell17au said:

It is not impossible to get a 1 year marriage visa from Savannakhet, Laos for 5000B. You will need your passport, original and copy of the marriage certificate, a signed copy of your wifes house book and a signed copy of your wifes Thai ID card. There is no financials needed for this visa. This is only for a marriage visa, there is no retirement visa's.

With this visa you do not do 90 day reports at immigration but you must leave the country every 90 days and if you leave the country 2 days before the visa expires and return back into the country before the visa expires then you will get another 90 days. It is a 1 year Multi Entry Marriage Visa and it is only available at Savannakhet not Vientiane. The only thing is that as there are changes with the immigration and many embassies and consulates are going to be looked at, this visa may be short lived.

No, it is certainly not. You missed the earlier posts.

 

What is impossible is to get perpetual O visas based on being 'on holiday' and over 50.

 

Coming in one one from home country, getting another might still be possible. Thinking youll be doing this for 3-4 or 10 years. That's a big nope.

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, uffe123 said:

You get treated worse than a second class citizen.

You aren't a Thai citizen of any class.