Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[garyk]

8 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

You couldn't have found a US bank paying over 10% interest.

 

Are you referring to US investments you made with that money (stocks/bonds etc.)?

That is 15% exactly? That is quite a good return. Well done.

[HAL9000]

5 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Thai Police order 777/2551 hasn't changed thus Thai Immigration's requirements haven't changed.

 

Retired

 

Lump sum of 800k seasoned or 65k/month income, either of them in a Thai bank account in the applicants name.

 

Married

 

Lump sum of 400k seasoned or 40k/month income, either of them in a Thai bank account in the applicants name.

 

No foreign documents are acceptable.

Looking at the Police Order, the quoted text above appears to be your personal commentary. That text does not appear in the Police Order.

[Scott]

Posts and replies removed.   Continue with the bickering, off-topic posting and receive a suspension.   It's very distracting for those who are interested in the topic to wade through pages of garbage.  

 

[EricTh]

All the countries should follow UK and USA.

 

It's just not fair that other countries can make use of the loophole.

[tropo]

5 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

    Thanks for the compliment.  I definitely want to enjoy being a teeanger as long as possible!  

    You are correct.  I don't have a thai wife or thai relatives.

     I would enjoy a more organized more together retirement visa system.  Hopefully, someday.

     For those staying I am hoping for the best and the least amount of hassle.  I will just be a short-time visitor from now on in TH.

Of course, an easy system is in place - stick 800k on an account and be done with it. The problems here are more to do with lack of sufficient funding than anything else. Thailand was an easy place to retire for people without much money. That was most of the attraction. There was one comment from a member that he had millions of DOLLARS (62 million baht plus) parked in trading accounts at home, yet he wouldn't want to park a mere 800k on a Thai bank account for 3 months a year. That's pretty hard to believe.

[Puwa]

 

The government's mistake here is seeking a banking solution to what is essentially an insurance problem. It boils down to risk, real or perceived, that indigent foreigners will drain public resources.

 

An alternative could be for the government to introduce a new mandatory insurance product covering accident, emergency, some basic health care, and repatriation if it becomes necessary for medical or financial reasons. Keeping a certain amount of money on deposit in Thailand lowers your premium. Proving legit income to your Thai bank lowers your premium. Clean living lowers your premium. Holding verified, applicable health insurance lowers your premium. Owning property lowers your premium. Actuaries know how to figure out the risk factors, premiums, and payouts. Use the market to strike a balance between government oversight (or overreach) and individual responsibility (and irresponsibility). 

 

Renew annually to renew visa. Insurance card becomes your government-issued ID. Throw in some perks, like local rates for national parks. ID expires, no visa extension til it renews. Immigration wouldn't have to look at financial statements at all, and could focus on entry and exit and illegal employment. They'd still make money off visas, exit permits, overstays etc.

 

What would you be willing to pay annually for something like that?

[totally thaied up]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

They make allowance for the possibility that the wife contributes something. Or that the couple may live rent free in a home owned by her/her family.

 

And in some cases, this is so.

I did ask an IO about this. I was told much the same as this. My wife owns a house (before I met her) and she earns money every month. I only bring in 20K+ a month and the rest comes from the wife and we live a good life. Other friends of mine have Government wives and get so much more as in Health Cover as well. Much better off than me!

 

Still, I can gather others fully supporting a wife and family. Today I went out to a hillside area out the back of San Kamphaeng and saw real poverty. I thought I saw it over in Issan or up in some of the Hilltribe areas, but truly, today was the first time I have been totally shocked in Thailand. Have seen similar in the Philippines but never here. Just to say, I thought then seriously about this thread and how many guys may look after families similar to this and what type of impact this will bring if it affects them. I mean, a lot of my Australian friends are not super wealthy, they don't make the 40K most months on the basic pension (married men's) and if the 400K was at all lifted, I would hazard to say, some families like this are going to suffer. As I said, what I saw today was just stark reality and then seeing village after village like this in these back areas, just bought it all home to rest.

 

I hope this is as far as immigration goes now.

[EricTh]

10 hours ago, certacito said:

How long until the Australian embassy's news flash ?

 

If I am not wrong, most farang retirees are from USA, UK and Australia.

 

It's about time that Australia do the same.

[johnjohn2]

Why do you wish Australia do the same? I wish it to be the easiest for everyone. It sucks for us but doesn't mean it should suck for everyone.

[JimmyJ]

8 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

The difference between money in a Thai bank or American bank for 3 months is a few hundred dollars.  What I spend for a night out in Bangkok.  Chicken feed.  You are making a big deal about nothing. 

 

This implies sending one's funds back to the US after the 3 months.

 

Sending 25k out from a US bank and then sending it back after 3 months seems that with many if not all banks will entail questions.

Perhaps not the first time but if repeated annually I would be surprised if not future hassles with the bank.

 

How would one explain it?

"I live in Thailand, and need it there for 3 months for my retirement visa".

 

"You live in Thailand? We only accept customers living in the US. Account closed."

 

There are some banks apparently which will not close an account for this but many will.

 

How would you handle it?

You've mentioned you've never had a problem sending the funds in and out, but then you mentioned you keep your funds in Thai banks.

Edited October 26, 2018 by JimmyJ

[JimmyJ]

I had gotten over most of my paranoia at depositing 25k USD in a Thai bank and was planning to do so, but reading the many comments from those who are mistrustful of the Thai banks is bringing my paranoia back.

Edited October 26, 2018 by JimmyJ

[dontoearth]

2 minutes ago, tropo said:

Of course, an easy system is in place - stick 800k on an account and be done with it. The problems here are more to do with lack of sufficient funding than anything else. Thailand was an easy place to retire for people without much money. That was most of the attraction. There was one comment from a member that he had millions of DOLLARS (62 million baht plus) parked in trading accounts at home, yet he wouldn't want to park a mere 800k on a Thai bank account for 3 months a year. That's pretty hard to believe.

    I have no commitment to Thailand and as far as I know they have no FDIC insurance.  This is the USA system that is used to make sure you the individual get the account money back in the case of the banks default or bankruptcy.  We got to watch our banks close up in fast motion here in the US just 10 years ago.  I didn't loose a dime. 

   I was working in TH during the financial panic in '97.  I never did get any straight answers from anyone about the banking system here.  I was being paid in cash in Thai baht so it was not a problem for me.  Friends made out like bandits because they had US dollars and could take advantage of the baht plunge to buy expensive stuff for next to nothing.  I didn't have that kind of money to risk back then. I wish I had picked up some of the gold and rolexes at half price!

    I meet the income requirements to get a retirement visa.  It has been easy to deliver those to the Thai consulate in Chicago for a retirement visa.  I had a terrible experience at Cheng Wattana and will not be heading back there.

    I am not willing to put money in most foreign banks.  I can understand not wanting to  sell off investments to put money in a Thai bank.  I would not sell off my investments to put them in a US bank either actually.

    I made my money by NOT being foolish.  I am going to keep it the same way. 

[zydeco]

Just now, JimmyJ said:

I had gotten over my paranoia at depositing 25k USD in a Thai bank, but reading the many comments from those who are mistrustful of the Thai banks is bringing my paranoia back.

Thailand has been pretty good about safeguarding expats financial transactions at least until now.  I worry about the influence of China on Thailand and Thailand taking sides with China in trade and political disputes. Then, could our accounts be nationalized?  With nothing to fear from the US and backup from China, what is to stop them in an emergency from doing just that?

[david555]

6 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

I had gotten over my paranoia at depositing 25k USD in a Thai bank, but reading the many comments from those who are mistrustful of the Thai banks is bringing my paranoia back.

I have 10 years Thai bank and never had any problem with them , I think most of those who talk different can not do the 800 000 (is no shame  but don't blame it on Thai banks..) do this of not loosing face maybe ….too long time   in Thailand ? ????

Edited October 26, 2018 by david555

[marcusarelus]

I think someone needs to make a decision if this thread is about the Embassy income affidavit letter or the Thai banking system.  Both are worthy subjects but the temptation to turn this into a typical Thai bash is great when the thread takes a turn into banking outside of America. 

[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, johnjohn2 said:

Why do you wish Australia do the same? I wish it to be the easiest for everyone. It sucks for us but doesn't mean it should suck for everyone.

Because every Embassy is in the same position.

Thai Immigration want the Embassies to 'verify' the income being declared.

Other than 'state pensions' paid by the Government they cannot 'verify' income from private institutions.

Your statement, as in an 'affidavit' or 'stat dec' does not 'verify' your income.

 

[zydeco]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

Because every Embassy is in the same position.

Thai Immigration want the Embassies to 'verify' the income being declared.

Other than 'state pensions' paid by the Government they cannot 'verify' income from private institutions.

Your statement, as in an 'affidavit' or 'stat dec' does not 'verify' your income.

 

Don't care about Australia does or if they keep their letter. Wish we could focus on the American letter issue, as that is the topic.

[gk10002000]

10 hours ago, wpcoe said:

+1

 

While I do have investment income which I've never used on the letter, my income from (a) Social Security (a US federal organization) and (b) Pension Guaranty Benefit Corporation (a US federal organization) is way more than required for the B65,000/mo.  But will the Embassy in Bangkok vouch for either of these two?  Of course not.  Grrrrr.

I would only be doing investment income which is well over 60K USD a year at least for a few years until I do access social security.  But that doesn't meant I spend it or use it or withdraw some from my Traditional or ROTH IRA accounts or would have it transferred into Thailand.  I have no plans to make monthly transfers into Thailand, which I have heard is one method of "proof of income" some Thai officials are leaning towards.  I would bring in lump sums when I rotate out and back in from a trip or two home each year.  Maybe transfer in 3 or 4 months income at a time, never exceeding the $10K USD reporting limit for overseas accounts.  If the Thais ask for detailed statements, well.. would you feel comfortable giving them your Etrade or Schwab Account numbers,  bank routing numbers, etc? 

[blackhorse]

I think some people will find themselves on the wrong side of these requirments  simply because they used their retirement bulk money to BUY a condo to reduce their overheads. Now they face being sent home with the loss of their assets or sold at a reduced price.
 
It will be a buyers market - NOT a sellers

As you said "some people"
Hardly constitutes a market thrashing.

Sadly the ones that may be leaving are living in 4k fan rooms on Pattayas dark side.

You might get lucky and pick up a 300k room for 200k on the outskirts of chiang mai... Enjoy!

[DogNo1]

So far as I know, you only have to show proof of a retirement income of 65,000 or over.  You do not have to bring money into the country unless you need money in the bank here to make up the shortfall if your retirement income is less than 65,000. When I first started doing one-year extensions, I showed several months of statements from my bank in America to prove that the monthly amount was actually deposited into my account.  I also presented the required notarized affidavit of income.  The requirements might be changed to compel you to bring the retirement income into Thailand each month but so far I have not seen this.

[likerdup1]

On a good note, aren't there some Thai banks that actually give pretty good interest rates on savings? If that's the case, I'll just move 25,000USD to one of those accounts and get better interest on my money anyway. Or I would think having a Foreign currency account might also be smart, especially if they offer a decent interest rate on the money. The money just has to be in a Thai bank from what I understand.

 

Although it would be a lot better if I didn't have to move the money here. I wonder if they would just except seeing bank statements from USA banks?

Edited October 26, 2018 by likerdup1

[JimmyJ]

14 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

    I have no commitment to Thailand and as far as I know they have no FDIC insurance.  This is the USA system that is used to make sure you the individual get the account money back in the case of the banks default or bankruptcy.  We got to watch our banks close up in fast motion here in the US just 10 years ago.  I didn't loose a dime.

When I first started investigating this about 2 years ago I was informed that Thai BHT bank accounts ARE insured. Not if they are in another currency.

[JimmyJ]

2 minutes ago, likerdup1 said:

 Or I would think having a Foreign currency account might also be smart, especially if they offer a decent interest rate on the money. The money just has to be in a Thai bank from what I understand.

Thai banks insure THB accounts, do not insure foreign currency accounts.

[mogandave]

Or buy an annuity

[DUNROAMIN]

I was expecting this, just a matter of time before all Embassy's will be issuing the same information to all expats from every country. Thailand immigration trying to weed out undesirables at the expense of good expats living here. Another nail in the coffin.

[garyk]

5 minutes ago, likerdup1 said:

On a good note, aren't there some Thai banks that actually give pretty good interest rates on savings? If that's the case, I'll just move 25,000USD to one of those accounts and get better interest on my money anyway. Or I would think having a Foreign currency account might also be smart, especially if they offer a decent interest rate on the money. The money just has to be in a Thai bank from what I understand.

 

Although it would be a lot better if I didn't have to move the money here. I wonder if they would just except seeing bank statements from USA banks?

I am interested in knowing what the Thai banks are paying out also.

What are the rates?

[watgate]

Two issues come to mind. First off,if one has to transfer into their thai bank acct 65k each month, aren't they going to be hit with monthly wire fees and bank fees which can add  up. Secondly, what about going the tourist visa route as a former poster suggested in a previous posting. He said " If I have to I'll go the METV route or SETV plus runs. I'm just trying to minimize the hassle and giving me the chance to come and go as I please over a full year".  Are tourist visas still practical for stays of 6 months or longer or has immigration cracked down on them?

Edited October 26, 2018 by watgate

[garyk]

4 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Or buy an annuity

Explain please?

[likerdup1]

1 minute ago, watgate said:

Two issues come to mind. First off,if one has to transfer into their thai bank acct 65k each month, aren't they going to be hit with monthly wire fees and bank fees which can add  up. Secondly, what about going the tourist visa as a former poster suggested in a previous posting. He said " If I have to I'll go the METV route or SETV plus runs. I'm just trying to minimize the hassle and giving me the chance to come and go as I please over a full year".  Are tourist visas still practical for stays of 6 months or longer or has immigration cracked down on them?

I wouldn't bet on using the METV or SETV as a long term plan. Right now it seems like a pretty good method .. I would bet that Thai immigration will continue to make it more difficult for long stays by doing visa runs etc.. Whether it be a retirement, marriage, work, tourist visas I would bet it will continue to be more difficult. That has been the trend. I have done 3 retirement visas over the last 6 years. Each time it was more difficult and more hoops to jump through than the last.

[Jingthing]

On a good note, aren't there some Thai banks that actually give pretty good interest rates on savings? If that's the case, I'll just move 25,000USD to one of those accounts and get better interest on my money anyway. Or I would think having a Foreign currency account might also be smart, especially if they offer a decent interest rate on the money. The money just has to be in a Thai bank from what I understand.
 
Although it would be a lot better if I didn't have to move the money here. I wonder if they would just except seeing bank statements from USA banks?

Without an embassy letter both the US and UK embassies are saying 65k monthly import will be accepted. Thai immigrant has announced no such official change of accepting that without a letter. Certainly nothing about accepting foreign account statements without embassy letter. People that can still get embassy letters will still have no import requirement. No word as well on the combo method without letter but the combo method stands with the letter.

TBD!

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