Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[Thaidream]

20 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I don't see the need for them to increase the amount or raise the age anytime soon, but one or the other will happen at some point in the future. Earlier, I was just warning that not everyone will qualify for 'grandfathering' if/when increases happen.  

I agree with you completly - in the future - whatever happens will be as a result  of some event- inflation; increased longevity; exchange rates etc.

 

The economic meltdown of 1997 taught me and others a lesson- don't put all your eggs in one basket-  In addition- almost every bank that existed in Thailand during that time  exists in a different name except for a few. they had to fold and recapitalize.   In addition- some finance companies folded and the CEOs fled Thailand.  Google Rakesh Saxena and see what comes up- he is sitting in a Thai prison and his bank Bangkok Bank of Commerce is a memory.

 

The Thailand bank situation is fairly stable at this moment. I don't worry about someone stealing my money in a Thai bank. What I always worry about are events that can occur, somewhat unexpected, and what happens as a result of these events. No One foresaw the 1997 crash of the Baht.   In addition, I can't remember  anyone  who foresaw the US economic collapse of 2008  when the World economy was almost destroyed.

 

As I mentioned in an earlier thread- when you are fairly young like I was in 1997 and lost much- I was able to recover- because I had time and youth.  I'm 70 now- and experience has taught me that one has to be careful.  After the 1997 crisis and I had to repatriate funds back to the Us and lost almost half- I vowed I would never open another Thai account unless forced.  Technology has advanced and  I can maintain funds in any country and walk to a Thai ATM and get what I need. this is the 21st Century. 

I remember my grandparents who went through the US Great Depression and how they were so frugal and I often  thought they were 'cheap'-   I was wrong and  knew they were  just being careful as they had experienced a shock.

 

I am hopeful Thai imm will  understand how  commerce works- there are plenty of ways to prove income and plenty of ways to  follow the Thai Immigration Law. They don't have to be pedantic but if they are-  I will comply to the best of my ability.

[david555]

13 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The Thailand bank situation is fairly stable at this moment. I don't worry about someone stealing my money in a Thai bank. What I always worry about are events that can occur, somewhat unexpected, and what happens as a result of these events. No One foresaw the 1997 crash of the Baht.   In addition, I can't remember  anyone  who foresaw the US economic collapse of 2008  when the World economy was almost destroyed.

Look anyway here a steady decline in Thai International Reserves

http://www2.bot.or.th/statistics/BOTWEBSTAT.aspx?reportID=80&language=ENG

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by david555

[Thaidream]

I can understand why someone would purchase either a 20 year  elite Visa or a 5 year  one-  you pay your money and forget about it for 20 years or 5 years and if you have a steady income stream from abroad- you keep it there and  not worry about events or what Thai Imm changes or doesn't change.

 

Wish I could do it- too old and not enough  seed money.

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, david555 said:

Look anyway here a steady decline in Thai International Reserves

http://www2.bot.or.th/statistics/BOTWEBSTAT.aspx?reportID=80&language=ENG

 

Ya look at that decline

[galt67]

10 minutes ago, david555 said:

Look anyway here a steady decline in Thai International Reserves

http://www2.bot.or.th/statistics/BOTWEBSTAT.aspx?reportID=80&language=ENG

 

This screenshot ONLY shows from April 2018 to Sept 2018.

 

You can take any point in time and find a 'decline.'

 

When using the link, I see an increase over the past 12 months (Sept 2017-Sept 2018)/

 

Total Sept 2017: 199,304.48 USD

Total Sept 2018: 204,457.06 USD

 

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I can understand why someone would purchase either a 20 year  elite Visa or a 5 year  one-  you pay your money and forget about it for 20 years or 5 years and if you have a steady income stream from abroad- you keep it there and  not worry about events or what Thai Imm changes or doesn't change.

 

Wish I could do it- too old and not enough  seed money.

Next year the sky will fall.  I have it on good authority*.  Then what will you do?  Wouldn't it be much better to take your 800,000 out of the bank and go home. 

 

* C. Little

[ubonjoe]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

 

And another one after removing a post and the replies caused by it.

On 10/26/2018 at 12:03 PM, ubonjoe said:

Another off topic post has been removed. The is a serious topic and there is no room for jokes or other nonsense.

From now on there will be no notice of removals. I your post disappears you can assume that you stepped over the line.

 

 

On 10/27/2018 at 4:51 PM, ubonjoe said:

And another reminder after 2 previous ones that I posted before.

And one after removing some additional posts and replies.

[galt67]

8 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I can understand why someone would purchase either a 20 year  elite Visa or a 5 year  one-  you pay your money and forget about it for 20 years or 5 years and if you have a steady income stream from abroad- you keep it there and  not worry about events or what Thai Imm changes or doesn't change.

 

Wish I could do it- too old and not enough  seed money.

1

Nailed it.

That's why myself and others have done it DESPITE being 50+ y/o.

[david555]

3 minutes ago, galt67 said:

This screenshot ONLY shows from April 2018 to Sept 2018.

 

You can take any point in time and find a 'decline.'

 

When using the link, I see an increase over the past 12 months (Sept 2017-Sept 2018)/

 

Total Sept 2017: 199,304.48 USD

Total Sept 2018: 204,457.06 USD

 

only pointing that in that period all go down slowly , but it is a movement as now , and about foreign reserves when I googled , so I did not check general way , but only foreign reserves ….

Edited October 28, 2018 by david555

[david555]

7 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Ya look at that decline

it start's anyway seems ...

[DogNo1]

It seems apparent that many, if not most, posters reside solely in Thailand so it made sense for them to open Thai bank accounts and bring their retirement funds into Thailand.  I split my year between Bangkok and Tokyo so I have not brought any significant amount of money into Thailand.  All of my money is kept at my American Bank and at the Fidelity brokerage.  I pay all of my expenses with my Visa credit card and use it to obtain cash when I need it through a cash advance through Bangkok Bank which costs me nothing.  My Social Security payment and pension payments are deposited in my American checking account.  For the past ten years, I have used copies of my American bank statements to show that I receive over 65,000 per month in retirement income.  There has been no certification, notarization or original bank letter required.  Sometimes the immigration officer just took my US Embassy-notarized affidavit of income and didn't ask to look at my bank statements but I always had them with me just in case.  Immigration policy may change but the immigration officers never had difficulty understanding my bank statements.

 

Posters write that the embassy-notarized affidavit of income is still required but beginning July 1st nobody will have a less-than-six-month old affidavit to present.  It seems likely that after January 1st, if not sooner, Thai immigration will stop requiring the affidavits.  Unless it is announced otherwise, they will continue to accept proof of retirement income paid into accounts in other countries.  

[balo]

Any news ? 

[JimGant]

Quote

Also I do not agree with the notion that the 800K baht deposit for the retirement extension is still yours. If you intend to stay for the duration in Thailand, it is really gone except that you might leave it to someone in your will.

Indeed. If you're well covered from other sources of cash, the 800k, for practical purposes, amounts to a sunk cost. It's an amount you'll never need to recover (tho' maybe reassuring that you could, if you had to). Now, for a 1000k of sunk cost you could get an Elite Visa. Again, we're assuming with money you can well afford. And the benefits of that extra 200k of sunk cost (i.e., money you'll never see again) are well worth it, if you're adverse to dealing with Immigration.

 

The real cost difference between the two is that the 800k can be left to heirs, and the 1000k obviously can't. But, again, the scenario involves folks who have saved up a substantial, or at least comfortable, amount. My wife doesn't need an extra 800k when I die, and as we have no children, and the nieces and nephews -- on both sides of the ocean -- are already in line for way too much inheritance, I couldn't care less that they'd lose 800k (plus the extra 200k for the Elite Visa).

 

So, who in their right mind would deny themselves an advantage by rationalizing that it will decrease their heirs' inheritance? Certainly not me.

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Indeed. If you're well covered from other sources of cash, the 800k, for practical purposes, amounts to a sunk cost. It's an amount you'll never need to recover (tho' maybe reassuring that you could, if you had to). Now, for a 1000k of sunk cost you could get an Elite Visa. Again, we're assuming with money you can well afford. And the benefits of that extra 200k of sunk cost (i.e., money you'll never see again) are well worth it, if you're adverse to dealing with Immigration.

 

The real cost difference between the two is that the 800k can be left to heirs, and the 1000k obviously can't. But, again, the scenario involves folks who have saved up a substantial, or at least comfortable, amount. My wife doesn't need an extra 800k when I die, and as we have no children, and the nieces and nephews -- on both sides of the ocean -- are already in line for way too much inheritance, I couldn't care less that they'd lose 800k (plus the extra 200k for the Elite Visa).

 

So, who in their right mind would deny themselves an advantage by rationalizing that it will decrease their heirs' inheritance? Certainly not me.

The real difference is I can use the 800k just like I can use any other savings account that requires me to keep a minimum balance.  That is most good bank accounts.  And in this case I only have to keep a minimum balance for 3 months.  I have another Thai bank account that requires me keeping a 3 million baht balance.  HSBC Premier Checking requires me to keep $100,000 minimum balance.  Chase Private Client Checking requires a minimum of $250,000.  All and all I think the Thai 25 grand for 3 months is a bargain. 

[SnakeBite]

I make more than the required amount (monthly 65K per month) for the Retirement visa by way of US Army disability payments direct to my account in the states and can copy those bank statements to show, Will this be enough for them to clear me? In the past I had to show both the US Embassy letter and a copy of the last 3 months bank statements and had to go to Chiang Wattana to get them stamped by the Thai office there. Does anyone know?

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by SnakeBite

[smedly]

I called this a couple of weeks ago while the insults directed at the British were flying in thick and fast, perhaps a simple apology would be well deserved for the BE giving you all a heads up 

 

I also expect all other Embassies to follow shortly, it has become clear that the flawed "income" declaration/Affidavit/Letter system is coming to an end and TBH is quite understandable.

 

It doesn't directly effect me as I use the bank balance method for my yearly extension topping it up once or twice a year as I spend, going forward I would like to have the income method available if I want to use it.

 

As has already been said, we need to wait for Thai Immigration to clarify exactly how the income method requirements can be met, moving money into Thailand should not be a difficulty for anyone as it is something you must be already doing in order to support yourself here so it is hardly a big issue - is it ?

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, SnakeBite said:

I make more than the required amount for the Retirement visa by way of US Army disability payments direct to my account in the states and can copy those bank statements to show, Will this be enough for them to clear me? In the past I had to show both the US Embassy letter and a copy of the last 3 months bank statements and had to go to Chiang Wattana to get them stamped by the Thai office there. Does anyone know?

 

When is your next extension due?

[Pib]

4 minutes ago, SnakeBite said:

I make more than the required amount for the Retirement visa by way of US Army disability payments direct to my account in the states and can copy those bank statements to show, Will this be enough for them to clear me? In the past I had to show both the US Embassy letter and a copy of the last 3 months bank statements and had to go to Chiang Wattana to get them stamped by the Thai office there. Does anyone know?

 

No one knows other than Thai Immigration....and they have yet to make an official statement.  And by official statement I don't mean immigration officer at office so & so supposedly said according to some ThaiVisa member; I mean an official statement like they publish in a revised police order, clear guidance on their website, etc.  

 

We are all waiting for official guidance from HQ Thai Immigration.

[SnakeBite]

5 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

When is your next extension due?

My next extension isn't until March  so have plenty of time.

 

[Kelsall]

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

The 800K is clearly recoverable because you’re not spending it.

 

The PE visa is a great option for people that can afford it and write-off the cost, but it’s not the most cost efficient way for most expats to stay.

What is a PE visa?

[Pib]

17 minutes ago, SnakeBite said:

I make more than the required amount (monthly 65K per month) for the Retirement visa by way of US Army disability payments direct to my account in the states and can copy those bank statements to show, Will this be enough for them to clear me? In the past I had to show both the US Embassy letter and a copy of the last 3 months bank statements and had to go to Chiang Wattana to get them stamped by the Thai office there. Does anyone know?

 

Where you said, ".....and had to go to Chaeng Wattana to get them stamped by the Thai office there."

 

I'm assuming you mean that is where you renew your retirement extension of stay because you live in Bangkok and included the mentioned docs in your renewal application.  And the "stamp" meant when they stamped in your extension approval into your passport.

 

OR, do you mean something else like where you say you got your embassy letter/supporting income docs stamped at Chaeng Wattana? 

 

 

 

[marcusarelus]

12 minutes ago, SnakeBite said:

My next extension isn't until March  so have plenty of time.

 

Get an income letter from the embassy in December while they still issue them and you will be OK for 2019

Edited October 28, 2018 by marcusarelus

[Nowisee]

My issue is not with the US Embassy for stopping the Affidavit for income verification and personally I thought it was unnecessary.

In the Royal Thai Embassy site, requirements for obtaining the original Non-Imm OA Retirement Visa, Line 6. - "... or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht."

In the Thai Immigration Bureau website under In the case of Retirement, Criteria for Consideration - (3) - "Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or..."

I am willing to present my 1099R, my Retirement Annuity Statement and a copy from my bank showing direct deposit amount as evidence.
No where in any current directive does it say that I must put this 65,000 baht into a thai bank account.
This is one of the reasons I selected Thailand for a retirement visa.  
I am unwilling to change this reason and have no problem with returning to home country and make plan for researching another country.  
 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Nowisee

[Jingthing]

21 minutes ago, Pib said:

No one knows other than Thai Immigration....and they have yet to make an official statement.  And by official statement I don't mean immigration officer at office so & so supposedly said according to some ThaiVisa member; I mean an official statement like they publish in a revised police order, clear guidance on their website, etc.  

 

We are all waiting for official guidance from HQ Thai Immigration.

Indeed we are and on the other hand they aren't obligated to issue any such report.

Certainly they aren't obligated to announce anything based on the timing of our wishes and hopes.

They can simply proceed as they have been if they choose. 

Doing an income based application? Bring your embassy letter. No letter?

Happy trails. 

[DogNo1]

You may be OK for 2019 until July 1st but on that date and after, all income affidavits will be older than six months since the embassy will not notarize any income affidavits after Dec. 31st, 2018.

[Pib]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Indeed we are and on the other hand they aren't obligated to issue any such report.

Certainly they aren't obligated to announce anything based on the timing of our wishes and hopes.

They can simply proceed as they have been if they choose. 

Doing an income based application? Bring your embassy letter. No letter?

Happy trails. 

Yeap....and if HQ TI doesn't make any official guidance/statement then we'll jut have to wait and see what happens when folks apply for their extension with no embassy income letter and those folks start posting their results.  I hope TI don't play that game and instead comes out with a statement/guidance soon.

 

  

[elviajero]

40 minutes ago, SnakeBite said:

I make more than the required amount (monthly 65K per month) for the Retirement visa by way of US Army disability payments direct to my account in the states and can copy those bank statements to show, Will this be enough for them to clear me? In the past I had to show both the US Embassy letter and a copy of the last 3 months bank statements and had to go to Chiang Wattana to get them stamped by the Thai office there. Does anyone know?

 

We don’t yet know.

 

If your extension is due in March you should get the embassy letter in December (should be good for 6 months), and hopefully that will be accepted. By the time your extension is due in 2020 things will have settled down again.

[elviajero]

24 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

What is a PE visa?

Privilege Entry Visa issued to Thailand Elite members.

 

Entry level membership is 500K, which gets you a 5 year PE Visa.

[Pib]

For those who have been using embassy income letters they definitely need to get it NLT than December even if that means getting it earlier than they normally do, because right now is not a normal situation. 

 

Get the letter and hopefully it will be accepted as usual at your servicing immigration office even for those folks who can't apply for their extension renewal until sometime in Jun 19. 

 

Surely (hopefully) way before Jun 19 we will have clear guidance from HQ TI regarding the Bt65K/40K monthly income option when no embassy income letter is possible.

 

[pontious]

6 minutes ago, Pib said:

For those who have been using embassy income letters they definitely need to get it NLT than December even if that means getting it earlier than they normally do, because right now is not a normal situation. 

 

Get the letter and hopefully it will be accepted as usual at your servicing immigration office even for those folks who can't apply for their extension renewal until sometime in Jun 19. 

 

Surely (hopefully) way before Jun 19 we will have clear guidance from HQ TI regarding the Bt65K/40K monthly income option when no embassy income letter is possible.

 

I agree - they will not be able to say Embassy letter when they know that we cannot get them. They could of course say nothing and that would leave people only with the 4/8 option. I also cannot see there will be a different rule for oz, Dutch Austrian blah blah citizens who it seems will continue with there letters. It will all get sorted out by June 2019 [ hopefully ]