Thai army paid much, much more for same helo used by King power CEO

[Sydebolle]

What the air force paid is one thing, what the manufacturer booked in as sales price - certainly something else. Considering the fact, that the air force bought more than one of those birds I shall leave the rest to the imagination of the gifted reader.

On that note, luckily comparisons to the three submarines might be more of a challenge as I do not know any Thai VIP with a private sub, for the time being that is. 

[overherebc]

15 minutes ago, Bundooman said:

Yes, of course - bla bla bla…...

 

But the next question is, did the military helicopters come with all those systems included that you speak of - or was it the same as the one that crashed?

Or, on top of the price paid threefold more for the military choppers, did all those things come as extras?

 

Please expand on your because, because, because. Thank you.

 

 

 

Considering one fact that you obviously missed it wasn't even the same model of helicopter.

Your post infers/assumes that both were the same and the military conversion was done locally. What a stupid idea.

Orders are placed by the military with specific requirements for armament passive and active, not whether the seats are leather or plastic with ashtrays or built-in TV's. Cable runs etc are protected with shielding both physical and electronic. A whole range of specially made materials are used. Ice protection systems on the power units are fitted or not as required. Airframe changes my have to be made to allow fitting of equipment that isn't fitted on civvy choppers.

PS.

Ejection seats aren't fitted. I'll let you work out why. ????????

[overherebc]

8 minutes ago, soon2bexpat said:

The one that crashed is a different type of helicopter. The Leicester City helicopter was a AW169. The Thai Military use AW 139 which is larger than the AW 169. The AW 149 which has also been mentioned is a military version of the AW 189 which again is larger than a AW 139.

How dare you bring facts and logic into it.

????????

[Eric Loh]

Thailand sits with many African countries like Uganda in the index on defense corruption. That’s how bad military corruption for Thailand. 

http://government.defenceindex.org/list/

[Patriot1066]

7 minutes ago, soon2bexpat said:

The one that crashed is a different type of helicopter. The Leicester City helicopter was a AW169. The Thai Military use AW 139 which is larger than the AW 169. The AW 149 which has also been mentioned is a military version of the AW 189 which again is larger than a AW 139.

Cant compare two things that are different!

[overherebc]

3 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

Cant compare two things that are different!

No no no. They are exactly the same. Well same shape-ish with a big fan on the top to keep the pilot's champagne cold, military or civilian.

[Patriot1066]

Just now, overherebc said:

No no no. They are exactly the same. Well same shape-ish with a big fan on the top to keep the pilot's champagne cold, military or civilian.

And the fan at the back to keep the flies off?

[Patriot1066]

9 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Thailand sits with many African countries like Uganda in the index on defense corruption. That’s how bad military corruption for Thailand.

http://government.defenceindex.org/list/

The UK sits in the best group we must be better at hiding it than the completion?

 

https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/current/modules/rm/notes1/bribery_bae_master_pdf.pdf

[The Deerhunter]

On 11/1/2018 at 5:44 PM, Hank Gunn said:

But, but, Thaksin was corrupt...

But, but, but:  All his followers will say he wasn't.   "None so blind as those who do not want to see."  (1546 (John Heywood), and resembles a Biblical verse)  I was expecting Shakespeare.!!!  Damn. 

[Eric Loh]

10 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

The UK sits in the best group we must be better at hiding it than the completion?

 

https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/current/modules/rm/notes1/bribery_bae_master_pdf.pdf

Better at investigating and better accountability from the military. Not same same in Thailand. Investigating agencies like the NACC take a more cordial approach to military corruption. Has any Thai general being ever charged and convicted? 

[Retiredandhappyhere]

On 11/1/2018 at 6:03 PM, KittenKong said:

Maybe the ones the military bought work properly?

Don't think so, as 5 of them are out of action.

[The Deerhunter]

56 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Better at investigating and better accountability from the military. Not same same in Thailand. Investigating agencies like the NACC take a more cordial approach to military corruption. Has any Thai general being ever charged and convicted? 

Not to my knowledge.  Now, on a completely different subject, do you happen to know who is running the country right now?  (Rhetorical question)  555

Edited November 2, 2018 by The Deerhunter

[Patriot1066]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Better at investigating and better accountability from the military. Not same same in Thailand. Investigating agencies like the NACC take a more cordial approach to military corruption. Has any Thai general being ever charged and convicted?

Which UK Generals have over been charged? These things are swept under the carpet as usually end in a trail to the top.

 

A friend of mine is an ex motorcycle cop he used to bemoan the paid for trips abroad by the purchasing departments and their love of German vehicles !!

[jayboy]

13 hours ago, andygrr said:

 Nothing new there same in the UK for instance a motor that retails for around say 500 pounds 

might be purchased for use by the Royal Navy at a cost of 2000 pounds. The reason is often due

to the amount of documentation required by the MOD. Sometimes individual component might

requires quality assurance certificates as to where the material came from including batch numbers

of stock material used and test results. The price the MOD pay is crazy but so is the amount of

work generated by the documentation required for some government contracts. And I would 

imagine there to be a lot with any items used in aviation.

I don't believe a word of this. File under "bar talk."

[LomSak27]

19 minutes ago, jayboy said:

13 hours ago, andygrr said:

 Nothing new there same in the UK for instance a motor that retails for around say 500 pounds 

might be purchased for use by the Royal Navy at a cost of 2000 pounds. The reason is often due

to the amount of documentation required by the MOD. Sometimes individual component might

requires quality assurance certificates as to where the material came from including batch numbers

of stock material used and test results. The price the MOD pay is crazy but so is the amount of

work generated by the documentation required for some government contracts. And I would 

imagine there to be a lot with any items used in aviation.

I don't believe a word of this. File under "bar talk."

Weill Military do have to have different specs and usually come with more spare parts etc ...... plus a training package, different radar, different  ummm but it is said that is the way someplace - would not know where ... wait lets call it Paraguay heh yep there you go. The way Paraguay does it is have the seller put a big price on it then out of that, an amount is kicked back to the purchaser. 

 

[overherebc]

14 hours ago, andygrr said:

 Nothing new there same in the UK for instance a motor that retails for around say 500 pounds 

might be purchased for use by the Royal Navy at a cost of 2000 pounds. The reason is often due

to the amount of documentation required by the MOD. Sometimes individual component might

requires quality assurance certificates as to where the material came from including batch numbers

of stock material used and test results. The price the MOD pay is crazy but so is the amount of

work generated by the documentation required for some government contracts. And I would 

imagine there to be a lot with any items used in aviation.

On that line yes, parts etc are quite often subjected to specific tests that are asked for by the military being above and beyond the civilian requirement. Non-destructive and destructive test rates increased in % numbers etc, eg sampling rates for civilian 1 part in 10 and for military 10 parts in 10 being tested, especially aviation ( no emergency lanes up there to stop in for a quick repair ) ????

[metisdead]

A number of off topic posts and replies about the Chinese bus deal and the firetruck deal have been removed.

 

A post containing a link to Bangkok Post has been removed. 

[metisdead]

A post commenting on moderation has been removed. 

[hobz]

2 hours ago, LomSak27 said:

Weill Military do have to have different specs and usually come with more spare parts etc ...... plus a training package, different radar, different  ummm but it is said that is the way someplace - would not know where ... wait lets call it Paraguay heh yep there you go. The way Paraguay does it is have the seller put a big price on it then out of that, an amount is kicked back to the purchaser. 

 

You should read the article that is linked in the OP.

It says the listed price for a military fitted version and also mentions what the military bought Is an older version yet they paid more.

 

 

[hobz]

From the article linked in OP.

 

"Price information available online indicates the military spent well over market price for the aircraft. A military-outfitted AW139 helicopter, the same model bought by the Thai army, reportedly sold for about 348 million baht apiece in 2013, according to  Aviation International News."

 

"Yet when the Thai army bought 12 helicopters of a more outdated type from the same Italian company between 2012 to 2017, it paid 675 million baht to 737 million baht for each, "

 

seems like they paid roughly double the market price for a military fitted..

 

that being said, custom fittings such as som tam cooking bowl and kapao smell remover could easily add a couple of hundred million baht. 

 

im pretty sure PM has promised he is not corrupt.

would a corrupt leader remove a prosecutor because he wanted to investigate his brother? https://prachatai.com/english/node/6629

Edited November 3, 2018 by hobz

[LomSak27]

15 minutes ago, hobz said:

You should read the article that is linked in the OP.

It says the listed price for a military fitted version and also mentions what the military bought Is an older version yet they paid more.

Good God read what I wrote again.

I did not want to comment directly but that is how they do things. Don't be so thick. You can lead a buffalo to water but ..... Read the last sentence Einstein.

Edited November 3, 2018 by LomSak27

[Hank Gunn]

13 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

But, but, but:  All his followers will say he wasn't.   "None so blind as those who do not want to see."  (1546 (John Heywood), and resembles a Biblical verse)  I was expecting Shakespeare.!!!  Damn. 

Of course, and all supporters of the junta will say they are not corrupt, and have "cleaned up" corruption. Again, if you read my other responses you'll see that I in no way have said Thaksin wasn't corrupt. My OP was obviously sarcastic and aimed at those who see things in black and white but from the other side. (To borrow your biblical quote, None so blind as those who do not want to see.") In fact, I'd posit that many Thaksin supporters knew he was corrupt, he just represented a change from the status quo that so many have been looking for and not necessarily better, just different. With that said, I go further and say it is the rabid junta supporters who are the ones who are blind to this government's negatives.

 

Finally, I'd say that many on this forum who are anti-junta (myself included) aren't necessarily pro-Thaksin but I think most pro-junta folks make this false assumption.

 

(See post #140 [two above mine]. Some are still defending the junta but imagine if this were done under the Thaksin/PTP admin. [not difficult to do I might add].)

Edited November 3, 2018 by Hank Gunn

[HAKAPALITA]

I dont think anyone is unaware of Tubbies current short falls, or Thaksins blatant thefts.

[lvr181]

5 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

I dont think anyone is unaware of Tubbies current short falls, or Thaksins blatant thefts.

The "junta" may only be the best of a bad bunch. ????

[toofarnorth]

On Thursday, November 01, 2018 at 6:08 PM, Thian said:

Is a Ferrari/Lambourghini from Italy the same price in LOS as in Italy? Guess not..

Wouldn't want a Ferrari , they dent too easy when hitting scooters.

[MyFriend You]

On 11/1/2018 at 11:36 AM, ukrules said:

Why is the Italian made helicopter more expensive ?

 

Thai government greed, that's why.

Thai/Ital Friendship agreement??  Tax Free Import............says it all.